My position on capital punishment just changed

The Rock
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The Rock
Edited Date/Time 4/27/2015 12:44pm
The FBI lab exaggerated findings and it appears 9 innocent people may have been executed. It is bad enough they pay informers to dupe many (not all) so called terrorists into hare brained schemes just to bust them and say look at the great job we are doing. This new revelation has changed my being pro death penalty to being strongly against it.

I hope people go to prison over these lab errors.
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Falcon
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Falcon 4/24/2015 12:52pm
4/24/2015 12:52pm
I haven't seen the article you are referring to, but if the facts play out like you presented them, then yeah, heads should roll. Well, maybe that's the wrong analogy in this case....
the_wood109
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the_wood109 4/24/2015 5:13pm
4/24/2015 5:13pm
That has always been my position on capital punishment. I might support it if it were possible to prove guilt with absolute certainty. This is not the case, and likely never will be. The fact that innocent people can, and have, been executed shows a failure to serve justice.

The problem isn't limited to terrorists. Many people have been wrongfully put to death, and many others have narrowly escaped death row.

borg
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borg 4/26/2015 3:02pm
4/26/2015 3:02pm
My own dissent on CP comes from distrust of politicians. I see them saying and doing just about anything to prove their point. Look how many are former prosecutors. Look how many DA's are elected. Just when in their careers did they adopt the habit of spinning and outright lying. Not to mention the outright incompetence of government.
My other problem with CP is juries. The average person is just too limited on logic and analytical ability to make the thumbs up or down call on a human life.
TDeath21
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TDeath21 4/26/2015 3:51pm
4/26/2015 3:51pm
Mine has never changed and it never will. Instant death penalty following trial for open and clear cut cases of brutal crimes.

Cheshire Murders

Boston Bomber

Kelsey Smith's Murder (I know that one because it's local)

Hi-Fi Murders

Those cases are examples of why the death penalty should never be abolished. If it's not an open and clear cut case of a brutal crime, then I'm against it. It has to be an option though due to cases like I stated above.

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str8shooter 4/26/2015 6:00pm
4/26/2015 6:00pm
TDeath21 wrote:
Mine has never changed and it never will. Instant death penalty following trial for open and clear cut cases of brutal crimes. Cheshire Murders Boston Bomber...
Mine has never changed and it never will. Instant death penalty following trial for open and clear cut cases of brutal crimes.

Cheshire Murders

Boston Bomber

Kelsey Smith's Murder (I know that one because it's local)

Hi-Fi Murders

Those cases are examples of why the death penalty should never be abolished. If it's not an open and clear cut case of a brutal crime, then I'm against it. It has to be an option though due to cases like I stated above.
YES! Exactly this! ^^^^^^
tunedlength
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tunedlength 4/26/2015 7:51pm
4/26/2015 7:51pm
the_wood109 wrote:
That has always been my position on capital punishment. I might support it if it were possible to prove guilt with absolute certainty. This is not...
That has always been my position on capital punishment. I might support it if it were possible to prove guilt with absolute certainty. This is not the case, and likely never will be. The fact that innocent people can, and have, been executed shows a failure to serve justice.

The problem isn't limited to terrorists. Many people have been wrongfully put to death, and many others have narrowly escaped death row.

Would you consider a clear video as absolute?
IWreckALot
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IWreckALot 4/27/2015 6:29am
4/27/2015 6:29am
TDeath21 wrote:
Mine has never changed and it never will. Instant death penalty following trial for open and clear cut cases of brutal crimes. Cheshire Murders Boston Bomber...
Mine has never changed and it never will. Instant death penalty following trial for open and clear cut cases of brutal crimes.

Cheshire Murders

Boston Bomber

Kelsey Smith's Murder (I know that one because it's local)

Hi-Fi Murders

Those cases are examples of why the death penalty should never be abolished. If it's not an open and clear cut case of a brutal crime, then I'm against it. It has to be an option though due to cases like I stated above.
str8shooter wrote:
YES! Exactly this! ^^^^^^
Yep. I agree. If someone is going to get the death penalty, why should they be allowed to live for years and years on end? The problem is deciding the line on what "clear cut" is. You'll have lawyers appealing for years and years arguing what that is.
71Fish
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71Fish 4/27/2015 7:34am
4/27/2015 7:34am
TDeath21 wrote:
Mine has never changed and it never will. Instant death penalty following trial for open and clear cut cases of brutal crimes. Cheshire Murders Boston Bomber...
Mine has never changed and it never will. Instant death penalty following trial for open and clear cut cases of brutal crimes.

Cheshire Murders

Boston Bomber

Kelsey Smith's Murder (I know that one because it's local)

Hi-Fi Murders

Those cases are examples of why the death penalty should never be abolished. If it's not an open and clear cut case of a brutal crime, then I'm against it. It has to be an option though due to cases like I stated above.
I agree there is a need for the death penalty, but I'm trying to understand your standard?
When is the line of brutality crossed to warrant capitol punishment? When does murder go from regular murder to brutal murder? Where is that line?
Rooster
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Rooster 4/27/2015 10:27am
4/27/2015 10:27am
My desire for revenge is tempered by my pragmatism when it comes to capital punishment.

For some who wind up on death row, it's a place they want to be. They'll get their name in the news and their day in the sun again.

I'd rather just see them get a cell for life and a publication ban on everything to do with the crime, trial and punishment. Let them rot outside of the public eye they seek and let the taxpayers have the cheapest option to provide justice.

Death penalty trials and convictions are the most expensive. They don't deserve the extra expense and they certainly don't deserve the additional exposure they get for their crimes.
str8shooter 4/27/2015 11:36am
4/27/2015 11:36am
TDeath21 wrote:
Mine has never changed and it never will. Instant death penalty following trial for open and clear cut cases of brutal crimes. Cheshire Murders Boston Bomber...
Mine has never changed and it never will. Instant death penalty following trial for open and clear cut cases of brutal crimes.

Cheshire Murders

Boston Bomber

Kelsey Smith's Murder (I know that one because it's local)

Hi-Fi Murders

Those cases are examples of why the death penalty should never be abolished. If it's not an open and clear cut case of a brutal crime, then I'm against it. It has to be an option though due to cases like I stated above.
str8shooter wrote:
YES! Exactly this! ^^^^^^
IWreckALot wrote:
Yep. I agree. If someone is going to get the death penalty, why should they be allowed to live for years and years on end? The...
Yep. I agree. If someone is going to get the death penalty, why should they be allowed to live for years and years on end? The problem is deciding the line on what "clear cut" is. You'll have lawyers appealing for years and years arguing what that is.
Cases like when they are caught on camera! There are cameras everywhere these days.......gas station hold ups that result in someone getting shot is a pretty easy example.
Cygnus
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Cygnus 4/27/2015 11:53am
4/27/2015 11:53am
With DNA being able to be replicated I have a serious issue with the whole process anymore.
Harry Backmon 4/27/2015 12:44pm
4/27/2015 12:44pm
Rooster wrote:
My desire for revenge is tempered by my pragmatism when it comes to capital punishment. For some who wind up on death row, it's a place...
My desire for revenge is tempered by my pragmatism when it comes to capital punishment.

For some who wind up on death row, it's a place they want to be. They'll get their name in the news and their day in the sun again.

I'd rather just see them get a cell for life and a publication ban on everything to do with the crime, trial and punishment. Let them rot outside of the public eye they seek and let the taxpayers have the cheapest option to provide justice.

Death penalty trials and convictions are the most expensive. They don't deserve the extra expense and they certainly don't deserve the additional exposure they get for their crimes.
Rooster, I too hate the fact that we spend so much money putting someone to death. For that reason alone I oppose CP. Until we can get it straightened out, CP should be stopped. The same goes for cases where there is just not enough proof. If the state is going to end someone's life, then the proof should be extraordinary. There should be absolutely no doubt. None. Period.

For the cases where there is no doubt (eye-witnesses, confession, DNA, etc.) then I would want the penalty applied - but that is assuming we have the process straightened out and it doesn't cost more than it would to keep the guilty party in prison for life.

I just think there should not be any doubt. There should never be any mistakes with CP. There are no "do-overs" with CP. It is permanent, and the proof to carry out such an extreme penalty should be extraordinary.

I do admit an argument can be made for "not caring" when the guy on trial has a record that is as long as the wait time at the DMV. What I mean is, you have a guy that the prosecutor says committed this horrible murder. This guy has numerous felonies and other crimes on his record. Now he's been caught up in this trial and the jury doesn't know what to believe. The prosecution has done a good job, but the defense has countered pretty well. Now what?

"Well, he's a scumbag. He's been convicted of rape. Stealing cars. Breaking and entering. Selling drugs. He doesn't vote and he drinks the wrong beer and hates Supercross. I'm voting for CP on this clown."

I can see that happening, and I would bet my next paycheck it has happened. Would the world be diminished if this guy is removed from the planet? Does it matter if he actually did the murder?

I say yes. It does matter.

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