I can't believe they are paying me to teach math to high schoolers

XXVoid MainXX
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9/9/2014 8:52pm Edited Date/Time 9/10/2014 5:09am
Your stuttering appears to have gotten much better. I barely noticed it!
enketchum
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9/9/2014 9:01pm
Your stuttering appears to have gotten much better. I barely noticed it!
Were you at the school board meeting when I had to introduce myself last week? Lol. Have I met you before?
enketchum
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9/9/2014 9:06pm Edited Date/Time 9/9/2014 9:07pm
captmoto wrote:
I hope you never lose that desire to really impact your kids. A lot of people love to shit on teachers, and their union along with...
I hope you never lose that desire to really impact your kids. A lot of people love to shit on teachers, and their union along with all public employees thinking they are all robots showing up for a paycheck. I had 2 HS teachers that really inspired me. As much about being a person as the subject matter. Unfortunately none was a math teacher. Do you tutor? My grand nieces live in Upland. They do pretty well but it's always nice to have a go to.
I shit on the union in my head a lot. I can't express it, though. They are going to withhold 500+ dollars dollars this year from my 40% salary. We got a 4.75% raise last year after a 10 year drought.

Truthfully, collective bargaining in teaching only makes great teachers get paid the same as shitty teachers. After 2 years, it is extremely hard to fire a teacher..... Thanks to the California election of 2006

I will tutor locally
enketchum
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9/9/2014 9:12pm Edited Date/Time 9/9/2014 9:13pm
There has been a student who was ditching every class except study hall for two weeks. Her absences were unexcused and became truancies. She came back to class today and asked if she could get all the homework she misses ..... I asked her where she was and she said "out". Please?

Sorry, no

The Shop

enketchum
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9/9/2014 9:16pm
sweet gig. guess who im gonna be calling when i cant figure out my 7th graders math home work ............ seriously cool story though my son...
sweet gig. guess who im gonna be calling when i cant figure out my 7th graders math home work ............

seriously cool story though my son has an IEP and also receives speech therapy

Does he have anything on his IEP related to math instruction? Or is it just for speech? Is it stuttering?

If so, when he gets in high school, save up some money and take him to HCRI in Virginia. Just about the only place with verifiable near-to-100 fluency rate. Cost me about 5000 bucks total from California
captmoto
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9/10/2014 10:32am Edited Date/Time 9/10/2014 10:32am
I had a science teacher that was into moto and desert. We even had the same bike back then, 72 Suzuki TS125. He would call me up to his desk, open a drawer where he had a Dirt Bike or MXA mag and ask if I had seen it. I would spend most of the period talking in almost whispers about bikes.
He once passed out test results and mine had some porting specs stapled to it.
APLMAN99
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9/10/2014 2:32pm
enketchum wrote:
That is an awesome story. I am glad that there are mathematicians working in other fields of education. Just the tip, working as a professor for...
That is an awesome story. I am glad that there are mathematicians working in other fields of education.

Just the tip, working as a professor for any local state university will only let him teach. They get to do VERY little research during their time at the college. Only large universities with outside monies and private universities will let you do any research at all.
He's already getting several folks in the math dept trying to steer him to grad schools and summer research programs. Obviously he'd be looking at research universities but in some ways I could see him really enjoying instruction at a high level. He's been lucky in that from Grade 4 on he's had some fantastic math instructors who've really had a passion for what they do and their enthusiasm wasn't wasted on him. In fact, his first HS math teacher (8th grade, pre-Calc) had been a really successful engineer who retired early in his mid 30s to pursue his dream of teaching. The guy wasn't there for the money, but just put everything he had into the classroom. Even during his last 2 years of HS when all of his classes were at our local community college he ended up with math instructors who were probably "over qualified" compared to the average CC instructor in both math and physics. He graduated from both HS and CC at 17 with 35 college credits in math, which is a pretty big number considering the requirements to graduate both schools. This summer he took a full load (12 credits) at UW, 3 math classes and a Latin class. He received his first imperfect grade in a math class ever, a 3.9 in a number theory class. Of the 60 students in the class, there were only two 4.0 grades and he was third in the class by just a few points. I think he realized that summer quarter moves along a lot faster than a "regular" quarter does and he probably should have taken an elective instead of that much math at the same time.

APLMAN99
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9/10/2014 2:40pm
Oh and the only thing I think that might alter his plans is the silly money that they are throwing at quants these days. Even for a summer internship it's just stupid.

If a kid decides to do research for a summer they might get a stipend of 3K-5K. A NY based quant internship can pay over 8K per month for 3 months! That's hard money to walk away from knowing that it only goes up from there!
enketchum
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9/10/2014 5:21pm Edited Date/Time 9/10/2014 5:25pm
You may not know, but number theory is a real math class. The Calculus series, differential equations, linear algebra, and some others are Applied classes. They use math to do things. Number theory, real analysis, complex analysis, modern algebra, topology, etc are actual pure math classes where you are learning about the math and why it works.

Number theory is usually one of the first proof based classes you take after intro to proofs, intro to set theory, or intro to logic. They will help young students learn to prove truths in mathematics and understand that math is the only place where absolute truths again.

Are you talking about quantum mechanics?
APLMAN99
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9/10/2014 10:38pm Edited Date/Time 9/10/2014 10:45pm
Nope, it was Number Theory. He got a little out of sequence because of his initial plan to study EE. He'd already taken Linear Analysis, Math Reasoning (Logic), Real Analysis I, and was taking Real Analysis II at the same time as Number Theory. Getting a 3.9 just about crushed him, but when he put it into perspective of finishing 3rd out of 60, it wasn't quite as bad. That class is one of the main reasons he took classes this summer because the Professor who taught it is kind of a mathematics "rock star" as the creator of a couple different types of cryptography.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neal_Koblitz

I get the "pure math" thing. That was his big reason not to simply jump on board the Applied Math major. He thought about double majoring, but with the "comprehensive" math degree, he'll get his BS 3 years out of HS and be aiming for a decent grad school.

This fall he has Math 402-Modern Algebra, Math 424 Fundamental Concepts of Analysis, and Math 441 Topology. He's also got a Classics and a French class thrown in for his "spare time". Going to be a busy quarter for him for sure!
enketchum
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9/11/2014 10:25pm
It sounds like his is hitting all the regular classes except I don't know what Fundamentals Concepts of Analysis is. Topology was the hardest math class I ever took. I lazied my way through Real Analysis because it was boring, but I actually tried in Topology and only got a C+. That was tough. Strange that he aced Real Analysis II and not Number Theory. Usually it's the other way around.

Please tell him to save some GE classes for Senior year. It's death with only major classes your year.
enketchum
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9/11/2014 10:28pm Edited Date/Time 9/11/2014 10:29pm
We had Back to School Night tonight. I carpool to work so we got home about 9:45. The thing ended at 8:43, I thought that was crazy. Had about 10-12 families come for teach class. Made a nice ppt and talked through it. Weren't many classes. For a district and city like we are in, high performing, I really thought I would have more families show up. The AP Calc room next door was packed every period.....

I had a good time for my first time hosting BTSN. I have never been able to meet many parents at the other school sites I was at. I wasn't very nervous, thought I did ok, parents seemed to like me. Some of the parents who I wished were there, were not....
APLMAN99
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9/12/2014 12:07am
enketchum wrote:
It sounds like his is hitting all the regular classes except I don't know what Fundamentals Concepts of Analysis is. Topology was the hardest math class...
It sounds like his is hitting all the regular classes except I don't know what Fundamentals Concepts of Analysis is. Topology was the hardest math class I ever took. I lazied my way through Real Analysis because it was boring, but I actually tried in Topology and only got a C+. That was tough. Strange that he aced Real Analysis II and not Number Theory. Usually it's the other way around.

Please tell him to save some GE classes for Senior year. It's death with only major classes your year.
The Number Theory professor is a notoriously difficult grader. He's also recruiting my son for the REU program in Inverse Problems that they do each summer. My son said that the professor was very demanding and allowed no partial credit for problems where it was obvious that you knew the work but simply made a tiny arithmetic mistake.

Looking at his "ratemyprofessor" comments, it sounds like my son isn't the only one who enjoyed the guy, but he may be in the minority.


http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=38925
enketchum
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9/12/2014 7:28am
Well he will be weeded out soon. Common Core says it's more about the process we use to solve the problems than the final answer. I can't stand teachers who grade like that. It's lazy
APLMAN99
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9/12/2014 1:15pm
enketchum wrote:
Well he will be weeded out soon. Common Core says it's more about the process we use to solve the problems than the final answer. I...
Well he will be weeded out soon. Common Core says it's more about the process we use to solve the problems than the final answer. I can't stand teachers who grade like that. It's lazy
The professor weeded out? Doubtful. A research professor at a research university isn't under the umbrella of common core, I'm pretty sure. My son said this guy just demanded perfection, which isn't really a bad thing for an upper division math instructor. My son really liked the guy overall, but I think he just wishes he would have taken his class during a normal quarter where the pace is slightly slower. A professor like that does the weeding out, not the other way around. A guy like that separates the folks who are interested in mathematics from the folks who are committed to it.
9/12/2014 4:04pm
sweet gig. guess who im gonna be calling when i cant figure out my 7th graders math home work ............ seriously cool story though my son...
sweet gig. guess who im gonna be calling when i cant figure out my 7th graders math home work ............

seriously cool story though my son has an IEP and also receives speech therapy

enketchum wrote:
Does he have anything on his IEP related to math instruction? Or is it just for speech? Is it stuttering? If so, when he gets in...
Does he have anything on his IEP related to math instruction? Or is it just for speech? Is it stuttering?

If so, when he gets in high school, save up some money and take him to HCRI in Virginia. Just about the only place with verifiable near-to-100 fluency rate. Cost me about 5000 bucks total from California
IEP for math and reading. no stuttering just missing a few sounds.
he was in testing all week to re-evaluate. have a meeting soon to get results.

even with his IEP he has managed to make honor roll a few times. biggest problem is 0 interest in school.
enketchum
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9/12/2014 6:29pm
enketchum wrote:
Well he will be weeded out soon. Common Core says it's more about the process we use to solve the problems than the final answer. I...
Well he will be weeded out soon. Common Core says it's more about the process we use to solve the problems than the final answer. I can't stand teachers who grade like that. It's lazy
APLMAN99 wrote:
The professor weeded out? Doubtful. A research professor at a research university isn't under the umbrella of common core, I'm pretty sure. My son said this...
The professor weeded out? Doubtful. A research professor at a research university isn't under the umbrella of common core, I'm pretty sure. My son said this guy just demanded perfection, which isn't really a bad thing for an upper division math instructor. My son really liked the guy overall, but I think he just wishes he would have taken his class during a normal quarter where the pace is slightly slower. A professor like that does the weeding out, not the other way around. A guy like that separates the folks who are interested in mathematics from the folks who are committed to it.
Why shouldn't people who are interested in mathematics be able to get high marks in number theory? Maybe it's just me and my Democratic views

There is no perfection other than math. Humans doing math is not perfection
enketchum
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9/12/2014 6:30pm
IEP for math and reading. no stuttering just missing a few sounds. he was in testing all week to re-evaluate. have a meeting soon to get...
IEP for math and reading. no stuttering just missing a few sounds.
he was in testing all week to re-evaluate. have a meeting soon to get results.

even with his IEP he has managed to make honor roll a few times. biggest problem is 0 interest in school.
Nm then for the HCRI thing. Glad to hear you are taking am active interest in your child's education
APLMAN99
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9/12/2014 6:41pm
enketchum wrote:
Well he will be weeded out soon. Common Core says it's more about the process we use to solve the problems than the final answer. I...
Well he will be weeded out soon. Common Core says it's more about the process we use to solve the problems than the final answer. I can't stand teachers who grade like that. It's lazy
APLMAN99 wrote:
The professor weeded out? Doubtful. A research professor at a research university isn't under the umbrella of common core, I'm pretty sure. My son said this...
The professor weeded out? Doubtful. A research professor at a research university isn't under the umbrella of common core, I'm pretty sure. My son said this guy just demanded perfection, which isn't really a bad thing for an upper division math instructor. My son really liked the guy overall, but I think he just wishes he would have taken his class during a normal quarter where the pace is slightly slower. A professor like that does the weeding out, not the other way around. A guy like that separates the folks who are interested in mathematics from the folks who are committed to it.
enketchum wrote:
Why shouldn't people who are interested in mathematics be able to get high marks in number theory? Maybe it's just me and my Democratic views There...
Why shouldn't people who are interested in mathematics be able to get high marks in number theory? Maybe it's just me and my Democratic views

There is no perfection other than math. Humans doing math is not perfection
Well the obvious answer would be that the grades aren't earned simply for being interested in math, but rather for performing at a certain level. Perhaps someone who is merely interested could get a top grade, but chances are that it'd take someone who was committed to mathematics to put out the effort. Interest and commitment are very different, and usually yield different results.

The Japanese kamikaze pilot in WWII who flew 35 missions was probably interested in being successful at his job, but he wasn't really committed......
the_wood109
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9/12/2014 7:40pm
I was so horrible at math (and subsequently physics.) Perhaps it was a lost cause for me, but the teachers I had in high school were so incredibly boring. I wish I had this guy as a physics teacher.

enketchum
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9/13/2014 1:49pm
We were in directed studies at the end of the day and a female student was working beside me at my desk. She was working on a white board and then she stood up and started waving the white board at me. I thought, "What the hell are you doing?" Then the smell hit me.... I said that was rude, do that outside next time, and she stood up and walked outside
captmoto
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9/15/2014 9:01am
enketchum wrote:
We were in directed studies at the end of the day and a female student was working beside me at my desk. She was working on...
We were in directed studies at the end of the day and a female student was working beside me at my desk. She was working on a white board and then she stood up and started waving the white board at me. I thought, "What the hell are you doing?" Then the smell hit me.... I said that was rude, do that outside next time, and she stood up and walked outside
Wow, a girl did that? I didn't think girls farted until I was 16 and had a friend with a really disgusting sister. I guess some people will do anything to get out of school.
enketchum
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9/15/2014 9:23pm
I am grading quizzes right now and I took a few minutes to really go through the work of a student in "special education". I don't know what he has but all his records say are that he was born at 2 ponds 12 ounces. The work is messy. He made one mistake when solving a system of three equations and three unknowns. He forgot to subtract something half way through the problems. He did a lot of the work in his head and almost got it all correct. Amazing. I gave him 9/11 because the process is all correct. I will not let one computation mistake ruin the problem for him, or any other student
APLMAN99
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9/16/2014 9:37am
enketchum wrote:
I am grading quizzes right now and I took a few minutes to really go through the work of a student in "special education". I don't...
I am grading quizzes right now and I took a few minutes to really go through the work of a student in "special education". I don't know what he has but all his records say are that he was born at 2 ponds 12 ounces. The work is messy. He made one mistake when solving a system of three equations and three unknowns. He forgot to subtract something half way through the problems. He did a lot of the work in his head and almost got it all correct. Amazing. I gave him 9/11 because the process is all correct. I will not let one computation mistake ruin the problem for him, or any other student
I get what you're saying, but at what point do you start penalizing for incorrect work? At the high school level I understand your motivation, but at the upper division university level I don't think it should be as "lenient".

Our area is currently going through a very expensive issue because of a minor arithmetic error. An engineer made a very small mistake in his calculations for the Wanapum Dam on the Columbia River. This little arithmetic mistake has meant some drastic changes in the pool levels behind several dams, affected irrigation and recreation, and resulted in something like $70 million in direct repair costs to the dam itself.

While I understand your desire to make a student feel good about their efforts, what mechanism will you employ to get to the point that accuracy is crucial? Is there a plan to begin holding that student accountable for completely correct answers or will you continue to allow incorrect computation for the entire term? Will you give each and every student this leniency? If a student makes small arithmetic mistakes on every question on a final exam, would you overlook that also?

I'm not bagging on you, so I hope it doesn't come off that way. I actually envy you because you obviously have much more patience than I do if you've chosen teaching as a profession. When my children were in K-2 grades I used to go help teach reading in their classes and I quickly realized that their teachers had a gift that I simply didn't possess.

That being said, I think the best thing that a teacher can give a student is to hold themselves to high standards. I remember when my oldest started middle school and started receiving letter grades on assignments. She came home one day and said something to the effect that her teacher had only "given" her a B+ on an assignment. First thing I did was to correct her and say that the teacher hadn't "given" her a B+, she'd earned a B+ and the teacher was just letting her know that that was the level of her work.

Good luck with your class this year and thank you for choosing a career that can make such a huge difference not just in the lives of your students, but in their next generations also. I truly believe that the expectations I have for my kids and their education is directly influenced by several of my teachers.
enketchum
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9/16/2014 6:30pm
I will be grading harder on computation as the years progresses. Some of these students come into the class with nearly no computational proficiency. This skills needs to be built up. Every lesson is based around one of the 8 standards for mathematical practice. I have been doing Attend to Precision a lot, especially with systems of three equations.


make sense of problems & persevere in solving them
reason abstractly & quantitatively
construct viable arguments & critique the reasoning of others
model with mathematics
use appropriate tools strategically
attend to precision
look for & make use of structure
look for & express regularity in repeated reasoning
APLMAN99
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9/16/2014 8:35pm
enketchum wrote:
I will be grading harder on computation as the years progresses. Some of these students come into the class with nearly no computational proficiency. This skills...
I will be grading harder on computation as the years progresses. Some of these students come into the class with nearly no computational proficiency. This skills needs to be built up. Every lesson is based around one of the 8 standards for mathematical practice. I have been doing Attend to Precision a lot, especially with systems of three equations.


make sense of problems & persevere in solving them
reason abstractly & quantitatively
construct viable arguments & critique the reasoning of others
model with mathematics
use appropriate tools strategically
attend to precision
look for & make use of structure
look for & express regularity in repeated reasoning
I'm not sure I understand the first part. Do you stay with these students for four years through high school? Or do you mean that you'll start holding kids you have in class to a higher standard in a few years?

If you are letting arithmetic mistakes slide right now, how will this affect them next term when another teacher holds them accountable for not only understanding the process, but also for getting the correct answer?
enketchum
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9/16/2014 8:55pm
Through this year, I will increase the importance of precision in computation.

Truthfully, though, Common Core is more about the process and not the final answer. The final answer is important on a test, but the process is more important. These are children; they are not perfect
APLMAN99
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9/16/2014 9:21pm
enketchum wrote:
Through this year, I will increase the importance of precision in computation. Truthfully, though, Common Core is more about the process and not the final answer...
Through this year, I will increase the importance of precision in computation.

Truthfully, though, Common Core is more about the process and not the final answer. The final answer is important on a test, but the process is more important. These are children; they are not perfect
Hold on, I don't get that when talking to my kids' teachers about common core.

The process is only important if you get the correct answer. The process is designed to help you get the correct answer. The process(es) are tools, not the ultimate goal.

As in my example above about our local hydro dam math error, should the engineer who made the mistake be given full credit because he followed processes, or should he have actually gotten his arithmetic correct.

Would you like to fly knowing that the engineer who designed the wings on the airplane didn't actually have to find the correct answers to get his engineering degree? Or would you rather that he was held to a standard of getting the correct answers in order to continue through his degree?

This isn't about always being perfect, but in mathematics being perfect should be the goal. One error isn't going to fail anyone, but ignoring errors will eventually lead to failure of the student.
9/16/2014 9:37pm
I recently finished school; it was non stop for twenty years.

All I could ask for is a teacher that was passionate about what he/she was teaching. Sounds like you have that -- I hope the kids can respect you for it because that's what makes all the difference from my perspective.
enketchum
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9/16/2014 9:37pm
That isn't what we are learning about CC. Juniors will be taking the 11th grade Math CASPP test at the end of the year. The questions have an empty field to write you answer and to justify the answer or explain what you did. The explanation is more important than the answer. And somehow, a computer is going to grade that written response. They don't know how that is going to work yet.

The professional engineer should be held responsible for his mistake. How long has he been doing this? At the beginning of a concept, students are given leniency. After they do it more and more, as the year goes, they will be held more responsible for their computations.

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