How will Obamacare work w/o doctors?

Partisan hackery misinformation.

72kiteboarder wrote: Partisan hackery misinformation.

Really?

When was the last time you talked to your doctor about government-run healthcare?

vet323 wrote: Really?

When was the last time you talked to your doctor about government-run healthcare?

He is in the Navy he has to have Gubmint run health care. This thing is gonna turn into a shit show.

72kiteboarder wrote: Partisan hackery misinformation.

vet323 wrote: Really?

When was the last time you talked to your doctor about government-run healthcare?

I live with socialized medicine every day and I love it.

The level of of misinformation floating around about this thing is just mind boggling.

My biggest issue with the whole thing is the fact the NO ONE completely understands the damn thing!

It's too bad they're so unhappy.

Maybe they should move to a country that already has socialized healthcare because the doctors in those countries (mine at least) seem pretty happy with their careers and the state of the government run health care system.

http://www.cmaj.ca/content/174/8/1079

oldfart wrote: The level of of misinformation floating around about this thing is just mind boggling.

Yeah, hard to believe there would be so much disinformation about a huge law nobody understands.

But really- It's great that we have it!

Rooster wrote: It's too bad they're so unhappy.

Maybe they should move to a country that already has socialized healthcare because the doctors in those countries (mine at least) seem pretty happy with their careers and the state of the government run health care system.

http://www.cmaj.ca/content/174/8/1079

You wouldn't have any better idea than we do how to take care of 350million people, but thanks for the input!

vet323 wrote: You wouldn't have any better idea than we do how to take care of 350million people, but thanks for the input!

You're right. A single payer health care system is sooooo much more complicated than your multi-tiered private system that still relies on paper files and doesn't even have networked/computerized record keeping yet.

Yeah, we're so behind the times with our efficient system that has no profit margin and an overhead cost to run of under 8%.

We should really ensure that we create more complexity and layers of obfuscation to try and suck more money out of people when they're sick and in need. Maybe we should take the decisions about patient care out of the doctors hands and uh, I don't know, let some insurance company decide whether or not you get the care you need.

But that might upset our doctors, and we like them when they're happy and prosperous. They can spend much less time on paperwork and lawsuits and spend more time on patient care. They seem to like that and so do we.

Rooster wrote: It's too bad they're so unhappy.

Maybe they should move to a country that already has socialized healthcare because the doctors in those countries (mine at least) seem pretty happy with their careers and the state of the government run health care system.

http://www.cmaj.ca/content/174/8/1079

vet323 wrote: You wouldn't have any better idea than we do how to take care of 350million people, but thanks for the input!

Rooster wrote: You're right. A single payer health care system is sooooo much more complicated than your multi-tiered private system that still relies on paper files and doesn't even have networked/computerized record keeping yet.

Yeah, we're so behind the times with our efficient system that has no profit margin and an overhead cost to run of under 8%.

We should really ensure that we create more complexity and layers of obfuscation to try and suck more money out of people when they're sick and in need. Maybe we should take the decisions about patient care out of the doctors hands and uh, I don't know, let some insurance company decide whether or not you get the care you need.

But that might upset our doctors, and we like them when they're happy and prosperous. They can spend much less time on paperwork and lawsuits and spend more time on patient care. They seem to like that and so do we.

Wft does any of what you just posted have to do with Obamacare?

The plan we now have adds several layers of bureaucracy on top of the cluster-schtup we already had.

vet323 wrote: Wft does any of what you just posted have to do with Obamacare?

The plan we now have adds several layers of bureaucracy on top of the cluster-schtup we already had.

Because Obamacare is the first step towards a government run single payer system.

Could you imagine the backlash if he just overnight put every insurance company out of business and switched you all to a system like the rest of the developed world has?

Baby steps man, baby steps.

Rooster wrote: Because Obamacare is the first step towards a government run single payer system.

Could you imagine the backlash if he just overnight put every insurance company out of business and switched you all to a system like the rest of the developed world has?

Baby steps man, baby steps.

BABY STEPS!? That fucker is 2074pages long!

I don't think you have any understanding about Obamacare.

You guys don't have a national system, either. I don't know why you think we should have one.

oldfart wrote: The level of of misinformation floating around about this thing is just mind boggling.

vet323 wrote: Yeah, hard to believe there would be so much disinformation about a huge law nobody understands.

But really- It's great that we have it!

That lack of understanding sure doesn't stop the "experts" from deciding how bad it will be.

What kills me about all the whining is that for the overwhelming majority of people, not a damned thing is going to change.

oldfart wrote: The level of of misinformation floating around about this thing is just mind boggling.

vet323 wrote: Yeah, hard to believe there would be so much disinformation about a huge law nobody understands.

But really- It's great that we have it!

oldfart wrote: That lack of understanding sure doesn't stop the "experts" from deciding how bad it will be.

What kills me about all the whining is that for the overwhelming majority of people, not a damned thing is going to change.

Really? The majority won't have a change?

What good is it?

vet323 wrote: Yeah, hard to believe there would be so much disinformation about a huge law nobody understands.

But really- It's great that we have it!

oldfart wrote: That lack of understanding sure doesn't stop the "experts" from deciding how bad it will be.

What kills me about all the whining is that for the overwhelming majority of people, not a damned thing is going to change.

vet323 wrote: Really? The majority won't have a change?

What good is it?

Do you have insurance now?

Rooster wrote: Because Obamacare is the first step towards a government run single payer system.

Could you imagine the backlash if he just overnight put every insurance company out of business and switched you all to a system like the rest of the developed world has?

Baby steps man, baby steps.

Absolutely correct. If you look at how the law seems to work (I am not 100% sure) it seems there will be an "incentive" for employee provided health care to be cut. I say this because it seems like the tax or mandate or whatever the hell they are calling it this week will cost an employer less money to pay than actually covering their employees. This will force all those former employee provided heath care people on to the open market, where the government run health care will be the cheapest. Because, as we know the government does not care about profits so they will have no reason to charge a rate with a profit margin. This will kill the private sector of health care because for them to operate they need a profit margin the government does not see the debt for proof of that. Another interesting side to this law is the fact that the tax on businesses increases after 3 to 5 years jumping to around the same level it would cost to cover employees again this is part of the funding for the bill.
When all is said and done this is IMO one long term plan for a single payer system, it tempts businesses to pay a fine vs covering their employees and will do a darn good job of killing the private sector by undercutting them with the governments lack of care for a profit margin.

Rooster wrote: It's too bad they're so unhappy.

Maybe they should move to a country that already has socialized healthcare because the doctors in those countries (mine at least) seem pretty happy with their careers and the state of the government run health care system.

http://www.cmaj.ca/content/174/8/1079

Well there's one!

oldfart wrote: That lack of understanding sure doesn't stop the "experts" from deciding how bad it will be.

What kills me about all the whining is that for the overwhelming majority of people, not a damned thing is going to change.

vet323 wrote: Really? The majority won't have a change?

What good is it?

oldfart wrote: Do you have insurance now?

Until 2014 I do, then you're paying for me.

vet323 wrote: Really? The majority won't have a change?

What good is it?

oldfart wrote: Do you have insurance now?

vet323 wrote: Until 2014 I do, then you're paying for me.

How's that? Are you suggesting you'll become a "freerider" at that time?

vet323 wrote: BABY STEPS!? That fucker is 2074pages long!

I don't think you have any understanding about Obamacare.

You guys don't have a national system, either. I don't know why you think we should have one.

We don't have a national government run health care system?

I suppose you're kind of right in that respect. The feds collect the taxes to pay for it and then dole out the cash to the provinces to implement their own system. It's pretty rigid and structured though. They can't go and use the money for anything except health care, but it lets there be some form of competition to keep the system working efficiently.

For instance we don't pay any monthly premiums at all for coverage in Alberta, but I paid about $40 a month in B.C. for a single person. In other provinces it's slightly higher. It really depends on what each province can afford to offer their residents. They can't decide to cut back on what they offer as part of the service though and all the rates are set by the feds for what they pay for each procedure.

I've said this before and it always seems to fall on deaf ears. You guys already pay more in taxes (per capita) for your medicare and medicaid systems than we pay for our entire single payer system. You're getting screwed by the insurance companies.

You're already spending enough tax payer dollars for the restricted system(s) you have now than we pay for a system that turns nobody away and lets the doctors decide what's best for patient care. But hey, if you want to profit off of pain and suffering then knock yourself out. Just don't be surprised when you find out how little your insurance company values your life.

Rooster

There are people here that have no insurance that say that they are willing to die if they have a life threatening situation.

Big Pharma, and the medical device lobby's are spending 'BIG BUCKS" keeping these people in check.

72kiteboarder wrote: Partisan hackery misinformation.

vet323 wrote: Really?

When was the last time you talked to your doctor about government-run healthcare?

72kiteboarder wrote: I live with socialized medicine every day and I love it.

Socialized medicine makes to much since.

If ANYONE thinks that the US government will make this work you are sadly mistaken. In a non corrupt US it most likely would work, but our system is completely corrupt and therefore people will get screwed. They promised not to touch SS and what happened??? They WILL rob us of even more money for shit healthcare , MARK MY WORDS !! I dont like our current system but to say the GOVERNMENT will do better is laughable...

Rooster wrote: We don't have a national government run health care system?

I suppose you're kind of right in that respect. The feds collect the taxes to pay for it and then dole out the cash to the provinces to implement their own system. It's pretty rigid and structured though. They can't go and use the money for anything except health care, but it lets there be some form of competition to keep the system working efficiently.

For instance we don't pay any monthly premiums at all for coverage in Alberta, but I paid about $40 a month in B.C. for a single person. In other provinces it's slightly higher. It really depends on what each province can afford to offer their residents. They can't decide to cut back on what they offer as part of the service though and all the rates are set by the feds for what they pay for each procedure.

I've said this before and it always seems to fall on deaf ears. You guys already pay more in taxes (per capita) for your medicare and medicaid systems than we pay for our entire single payer system. You're getting screwed by the insurance companies.

You're already spending enough tax payer dollars for the restricted system(s) you have now than we pay for a system that turns nobody away and lets the doctors decide what's best for patient care. But hey, if you want to profit off of pain and suffering then knock yourself out. Just don't be surprised when you find out how little your insurance company values your life.

Obamacare won't do the those things that your system does, but will cost much more. It's not a "first step"-you don't ever find a huge government program that gets better-run over time-they only get worse and more bloated.

A state-run system following minimal federal guidelines and allowing for cross-state competition from insurance carriers (like Canada has) could have been a good thing, but it's too simple and not enough government palms would get greased.

vet323 wrote: BABY STEPS!? That fucker is 2074pages long!

I don't think you have any understanding about Obamacare.

You guys don't have a national system, either. I don't know why you think we should have one.

Rooster wrote: We don't have a national government run health care system?

I suppose you're kind of right in that respect. The feds collect the taxes to pay for it and then dole out the cash to the provinces to implement their own system. It's pretty rigid and structured though. They can't go and use the money for anything except health care, but it lets there be some form of competition to keep the system working efficiently.

For instance we don't pay any monthly premiums at all for coverage in Alberta, but I paid about $40 a month in B.C. for a single person. In other provinces it's slightly higher. It really depends on what each province can afford to offer their residents. They can't decide to cut back on what they offer as part of the service though and all the rates are set by the feds for what they pay for each procedure.

I've said this before and it always seems to fall on deaf ears. You guys already pay more in taxes (per capita) for your medicare and medicaid systems than we pay for our entire single payer system. You're getting screwed by the insurance companies.

You're already spending enough tax payer dollars for the restricted system(s) you have now than we pay for a system that turns nobody away and lets the doctors decide what's best for patient care. But hey, if you want to profit off of pain and suffering then knock yourself out. Just don't be surprised when you find out how little your insurance company values your life.

vet323 wrote: Obamacare won't do the those things that your system does, but will cost much more. It's not a "first step"-you don't ever find a huge government program that gets better-run over time-they only get worse and more bloated.

A state-run system following minimal federal guidelines and allowing for cross-state competition from insurance carriers (like Canada has) could have been a good thing, but it's too simple and not enough government palms would get greased.

So you don't know shit about what's in Obama care, you just know it's bad. Thanks for the insight but I think I'll wait for some real data and facts, not more of the rabid partisan hyperbole.

oldfart wrote: That lack of understanding sure doesn't stop the "experts" from deciding how bad it will be.

What kills me about all the whining is that for the overwhelming majority of people, not a damned thing is going to change.

What blows me away is the lack of sacrifice by even Americans who blow their horn how bad the system is and needs to change. But, when you give them what they want, they're all about supporting just another shitty, underfunded government program.


Oldfart, you really let me down.

oldfart wrote: So you don't know shit about what's in Obama care, you just know it's bad. Thanks for the insight but I think I'll wait for some real data and facts, not more of the rabid partisan hyperbole.

I DON'T know what's in it-neither do you.

I DO know what's not in it-anything that encourages insurance company competition and willful participation from people not inclined to participate now.

vet323 wrote: You wouldn't have any better idea than we do how to take care of 350million people, but thanks for the input!

Rooster wrote: You're right. A single payer health care system is sooooo much more complicated than your multi-tiered private system that still relies on paper files and doesn't even have networked/computerized record keeping yet.

Yeah, we're so behind the times with our efficient system that has no profit margin and an overhead cost to run of under 8%.

We should really ensure that we create more complexity and layers of obfuscation to try and suck more money out of people when they're sick and in need. Maybe we should take the decisions about patient care out of the doctors hands and uh, I don't know, let some insurance company decide whether or not you get the care you need.

But that might upset our doctors, and we like them when they're happy and prosperous. They can spend much less time on paperwork and lawsuits and spend more time on patient care. They seem to like that and so do we.

vet323 wrote: Wft does any of what you just posted have to do with Obamacare?

The plan we now have adds several layers of bureaucracy on top of the cluster-schtup we already had.

WTF does "350 million" people have to do with the Affordable Health Care Act?

Most all of us HAVE health insurance. There will close to little or no change for us, except maybe our insurance premiums will go down because the free-loaders (of which you seem to want to defend) will have to pay into the system that my insurance premiums have had to cover.