Deflate-gate

G-man
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1/22/2015 8:28am Edited Date/Time 11/2/2015 9:31pm
Oh man this thing is growing legs FAST and turning into a monster.

Who's gonna fall on the sword for that cheater Belicheck?
Equipment mgr, ball boy?

Twice they deflated 11 of 12 balls. They had 2 1/2 hrs before the game and after being checked at halftime they were "adjusted" again.

2 psi is a BIG difference.

I can feel 1 psi underinflation on my dirtbikes tires and that is not something I grip with my hands.

Good thing it was a blowout for New England or people would be calling for Bill's head!

I guarantee you the rules will be adjusted once again next year. Smile
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vet323
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1/22/2015 8:35am
I don't see how anyone can get behind cheaters after they are caught. Belicheck should be sanctioned for this and probably Brady too.

I'm interested in the arguments that disagree with this.
GMalzee
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1/22/2015 8:36am Edited Date/Time 1/22/2015 8:37am
How did the refs not feel the difference? Took an interception for it to be noticed? Lots of controversy pointing to the top this post season.
71Fish
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1/22/2015 8:39am
If you aren't cheating, you don't want to win bad enough.
Hman144
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1/22/2015 8:41am
Can someone explain how the game balls are managed throughout the game? I know each team is responsible to provide a certain number of balls, and they're inspected before the game. After that, are they under lockdown in a supervised area? When Team A is on offense, do the referees use only balls provided by that team? Or are all the game balls, from both Team A and Team B put into one lot for random use during the game? If they're using only the balls they provide for themselves, that recipe is ripe for cheating, and I'm surprised the issue hasn't come up before now.

More unanswered questions from what I've been able to read on the matter thus far: Why wouldn't the referees, who have their hands on the balls each down, notice if something was off? Wouldn't a deflated ball work against a team on kicking plays? Were New England's kick-off distances down on average?

Something just doesn't smell right about the accusations.

The Shop

IWreckALot
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1/22/2015 8:56am
Hman144 wrote:
Can someone explain how the game balls are managed throughout the game? I know each team is responsible to provide a certain number of balls, and...
Can someone explain how the game balls are managed throughout the game? I know each team is responsible to provide a certain number of balls, and they're inspected before the game. After that, are they under lockdown in a supervised area? When Team A is on offense, do the referees use only balls provided by that team? Or are all the game balls, from both Team A and Team B put into one lot for random use during the game? If they're using only the balls they provide for themselves, that recipe is ripe for cheating, and I'm surprised the issue hasn't come up before now.

More unanswered questions from what I've been able to read on the matter thus far: Why wouldn't the referees, who have their hands on the balls each down, notice if something was off? Wouldn't a deflated ball work against a team on kicking plays? Were New England's kick-off distances down on average?

Something just doesn't smell right about the accusations.
I haven't read much into it but I have the same questions. Wouldn't a deflated ball have the same advantages and disadvantages for both teams. I could see an underinflated ball being helpful if you have smaller hands. Other than that, it just seems like it would be difficult to throw and kick.

As for Brady and Billichek I neither like them nor dislike them. They do seem to flirt with the line of what is legal and illegal and this certainly crosses the line. Some of their trickery with claiming eligible tight ends is interesting to say the least. Seems like they're trying to trick the refs as much as they are the opposing team.

vet323
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1/22/2015 9:11am
IWreckALot wrote:
I haven't read much into it but I have the same questions. Wouldn't a deflated ball have the same advantages and disadvantages for both teams. I...
I haven't read much into it but I have the same questions. Wouldn't a deflated ball have the same advantages and disadvantages for both teams. I could see an underinflated ball being helpful if you have smaller hands. Other than that, it just seems like it would be difficult to throw and kick.

As for Brady and Billichek I neither like them nor dislike them. They do seem to flirt with the line of what is legal and illegal and this certainly crosses the line. Some of their trickery with claiming eligible tight ends is interesting to say the least. Seems like they're trying to trick the refs as much as they are the opposing team.

Each team gets 12 balls on their side of the field. Those balls are the ones that team uses on offense. So the doctored balls were only being used by the N.E. offense (until an interception).

They cheated, no doubt about it.
GMalzee
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1/22/2015 9:12am
I am sure the teams have a pump though they may have been deflated at the time of inspection.
CR250Rider
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1/22/2015 9:24am
After watching BB's press conference I got the feeling he was not being truthfull.
His body english, the way he tilted his head and his blinking was consistent with someone holding back.
He stayed on script too much, refused to adlib an answer.
Bob693
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1/22/2015 9:44am
I think this is getting blown a little out of proportion. I'm not a fan of the Patriots at all but the ball had nothing to do with the beatdown they laid on Indy. There have already been a handful of other QB's admit they do the same thing. Rogers said he likes to have more air in his and hates when the refs let air out and Johnson said he paid to have the balls doctored for the Super Bowl. Is it wrong if they are out of the set range? Yes, but I don't think its equivalent to having a bored out cylinder. They should be fined, maybe lose a later round draft pick and be done with it. The people saying they should be kicked from the super bowl or the coach suspended for it are being ridiculous.
GMalzee
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1/22/2015 9:47am
Could be. Rob Johnson said he paid $7500 to someone who works for the NFL to doctor the balls of the Super bowl he won with the Buccaneers. Could have been a bribe like that or it could have been an agreement to give the Patriots an advantage.
GMalzee
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1/22/2015 9:53am
Bob693 wrote:
I think this is getting blown a little out of proportion. I'm not a fan of the Patriots at all but the ball had nothing to...
I think this is getting blown a little out of proportion. I'm not a fan of the Patriots at all but the ball had nothing to do with the beatdown they laid on Indy. There have already been a handful of other QB's admit they do the same thing. Rogers said he likes to have more air in his and hates when the refs let air out and Johnson said he paid to have the balls doctored for the Super Bowl. Is it wrong if they are out of the set range? Yes, but I don't think its equivalent to having a bored out cylinder. They should be fined, maybe lose a later round draft pick and be done with it. The people saying they should be kicked from the super bowl or the coach suspended for it are being ridiculous.
So let me get this straight, the NFL fined Marshawn Lynch $20 grand for grabbing his crotch (something Michael Jackson did dozens of times during his half time performance) and threatened to suspend Lynch for wearing gold shoes but they should just fine the Pats and maybe lose a later round pick for cheating?
jndmx
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1/22/2015 9:58am


vet323
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1/22/2015 9:59am
Bob693 wrote:
I think this is getting blown a little out of proportion. I'm not a fan of the Patriots at all but the ball had nothing to...
I think this is getting blown a little out of proportion. I'm not a fan of the Patriots at all but the ball had nothing to do with the beatdown they laid on Indy. There have already been a handful of other QB's admit they do the same thing. Rogers said he likes to have more air in his and hates when the refs let air out and Johnson said he paid to have the balls doctored for the Super Bowl. Is it wrong if they are out of the set range? Yes, but I don't think its equivalent to having a bored out cylinder. They should be fined, maybe lose a later round draft pick and be done with it. The people saying they should be kicked from the super bowl or the coach suspended for it are being ridiculous.
Yeah, Nixon burglarizing the DNC office was no big deal-he was gonna win that election anyway, right?




(just trying to keep this going-it's over a week until the S.B.
uk125250
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1/22/2015 10:30am
It's completely irrelevant to the outcome of the game. It's like putting too much pine tar on a bat. The Ravens tipped off the Colts about it. They wouldn't even have noticed without prior warning.
Titan1
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1/22/2015 10:36am
G-man wrote:
Oh man this thing is growing legs FAST and turning into a monster. Who's gonna fall on the sword for that cheater Belicheck? Equipment mgr, ball...
Oh man this thing is growing legs FAST and turning into a monster.

Who's gonna fall on the sword for that cheater Belicheck?
Equipment mgr, ball boy?

Twice they deflated 11 of 12 balls. They had 2 1/2 hrs before the game and after being checked at halftime they were "adjusted" again.

2 psi is a BIG difference.

I can feel 1 psi underinflation on my dirtbikes tires and that is not something I grip with my hands.

Good thing it was a blowout for New England or people would be calling for Bill's head!

I guarantee you the rules will be adjusted once again next year. Smile
Off topic...but are you serious on the dirt bike tires?

12lbs, 15lbs...makes no difference to me. I just ride the darn thing. I'm always amazed at how finicky some riders are, and I always assume they are making things up...but if you can honestly feel 1psi difference in your tires, you should be a professional test rider.
GMalzee
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1/22/2015 10:41am
uk125250 wrote:
It's completely irrelevant to the outcome of the game. It's like putting too much pine tar on a bat. The Ravens tipped off the Colts about...
It's completely irrelevant to the outcome of the game. It's like putting too much pine tar on a bat. The Ravens tipped off the Colts about it. They wouldn't even have noticed without prior warning.
Then why have the rule in the first place? Obviously the risk reward was worth it for them to do it. If it was inconsequential then they wouldn't have done it. They probably won't get punished in any significant way but now they have a huge distraction before the most important game.
vet323
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1/22/2015 10:59am
uk125250 wrote:
It's completely irrelevant to the outcome of the game. It's like putting too much pine tar on a bat. The Ravens tipped off the Colts about...
It's completely irrelevant to the outcome of the game. It's like putting too much pine tar on a bat. The Ravens tipped off the Colts about it. They wouldn't even have noticed without prior warning.
So Belicheck obviously knew when he deflated the balls before the game that they were going to win by that much? And it's ok to cheat as long as nobody finds out?

Interesting.

IWreckALot
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1/22/2015 11:03am Edited Date/Time 1/22/2015 11:03am
G-man wrote:
Oh man this thing is growing legs FAST and turning into a monster. Who's gonna fall on the sword for that cheater Belicheck? Equipment mgr, ball...
Oh man this thing is growing legs FAST and turning into a monster.

Who's gonna fall on the sword for that cheater Belicheck?
Equipment mgr, ball boy?

Twice they deflated 11 of 12 balls. They had 2 1/2 hrs before the game and after being checked at halftime they were "adjusted" again.

2 psi is a BIG difference.

I can feel 1 psi underinflation on my dirtbikes tires and that is not something I grip with my hands.

Good thing it was a blowout for New England or people would be calling for Bill's head!

I guarantee you the rules will be adjusted once again next year. Smile
Titan1 wrote:
Off topic...but are you serious on the dirt bike tires? 12lbs, 15lbs...makes no difference to me. I just ride the darn thing. I'm always amazed at...
Off topic...but are you serious on the dirt bike tires?

12lbs, 15lbs...makes no difference to me. I just ride the darn thing. I'm always amazed at how finicky some riders are, and I always assume they are making things up...but if you can honestly feel 1psi difference in your tires, you should be a professional test rider.
I can definitely tell 2 PSI in certain conditions on the dirt bike. I'm not picky about much on my bike, but I've hit a corner with 2 PSI too much and then reduced the PSI and hit the same corner the same and felt thousands of times better. It's only in certain terrains, but tire pressure can make or break some people.

A do agree with you though, some people make too much out of some other things. Maybe mine is tire pressure. Lol.
APLMAN99
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1/22/2015 11:09am
Bob693 wrote:
I think this is getting blown a little out of proportion. I'm not a fan of the Patriots at all but the ball had nothing to...
I think this is getting blown a little out of proportion. I'm not a fan of the Patriots at all but the ball had nothing to do with the beatdown they laid on Indy. There have already been a handful of other QB's admit they do the same thing. Rogers said he likes to have more air in his and hates when the refs let air out and Johnson said he paid to have the balls doctored for the Super Bowl. Is it wrong if they are out of the set range? Yes, but I don't think its equivalent to having a bored out cylinder. They should be fined, maybe lose a later round draft pick and be done with it. The people saying they should be kicked from the super bowl or the coach suspended for it are being ridiculous.
The air pressure in the ball may not have led to a reversal of the outcome, but someone on the Patriots' staff felt that it was enough of an advantage that it was worth breaking the rules. They deliberately doctored balls after they'd passed tech inspection.

In MX terms, it'd be like Roczen getting his bike through tech at the weight limit, then going back and substituting parts that resulted in a bike being 5lb under the weight minimum. He'd likely win with the bike at the legal weight, but as soon as he went to 5lb. under, he'd definitely be guilty of cheating.
CR250Rider
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1/22/2015 12:06pm
Belichick totally tossed Brady under the bus.. I wonder how TB will fell about that...... 4pm press confrence.... should be interesting
GMalzee
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1/22/2015 12:19pm
Yeah, of course it bothers them. Now instead of answering regular questions there going to have to answer questions about cheating from a lot of different reporters that they aren't accustomed to. The Patriots are known cheaters so for them to be the ones getting caught for it shows that it is more their thing then a "everybody does it sort of thing". I doubt the NFL will do much they will probably try to deflect the attention here onto something else like Lynch's shoes.
GMalzee
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1/22/2015 12:21pm
CR250Rider wrote:
Belichick totally tossed Brady under the bus.. I wonder how TB will fell about that...... 4pm press confrence.... should be interesting
I don't think so, I am sure they have a PR plan in place. The media would love to pounce on Belicheat but they will lay off of the pretty boy.
UpTiTe
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1/22/2015 12:45pm
They won by 40 points, Brady could have been throwing sticks of butter and they still would have won.
MR. X
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1/22/2015 1:37pm
According to Brady "I pick through a pile of balls before the game to find the ones i like best "
IWreckALot
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1/22/2015 1:38pm
MR. X wrote:
According to Brady "I pick through a pile of balls before the game to find the ones i like best "
I'm not sure what the media expects to hear from them. . . They're not going to give word that insinuates they're guilty. . . Of course they're going to act oblivious. Is it even necessary to go through the formality of an interview?
MR. X
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1/22/2015 1:55pm
IWreckALot wrote:
I'm not sure what the media expects to hear from them. . . They're not going to give word that insinuates they're guilty. . . Of...
I'm not sure what the media expects to hear from them. . . They're not going to give word that insinuates they're guilty. . . Of course they're going to act oblivious. Is it even necessary to go through the formality of an interview?
I think he just did it so he didn't seem to be hiding anything by remaining silent. Reporters were good i thought by asking him questions about previous statements he made about preferring an under inflated ball.
Bob693
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1/22/2015 2:27pm
Former NFL MVP Rich Gannon told La Canfora that quarterbacks are always doing something to the ball.

"Ask any quarterback, and this is a non-issue," Gannon said. "Everybody does something, to them. It's like a pitcher, he wants the ball a certain way."


Every team tampers with the footballs. Ask any Qb In the league, this is ridiculous!!
10:51 AM - 21 Jan 2015

Matt Leinart
Xracerdone
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1/22/2015 2:30pm
I can't believe he just used ISIS for a comparison, what a moron
G-man
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1/22/2015 3:28pm
G-man wrote:
Oh man this thing is growing legs FAST and turning into a monster. Who's gonna fall on the sword for that cheater Belicheck? Equipment mgr, ball...
Oh man this thing is growing legs FAST and turning into a monster.

Who's gonna fall on the sword for that cheater Belicheck?
Equipment mgr, ball boy?

Twice they deflated 11 of 12 balls. They had 2 1/2 hrs before the game and after being checked at halftime they were "adjusted" again.

2 psi is a BIG difference.

I can feel 1 psi underinflation on my dirtbikes tires and that is not something I grip with my hands.

Good thing it was a blowout for New England or people would be calling for Bill's head!

I guarantee you the rules will be adjusted once again next year. Smile
Titan1 wrote:
Off topic...but are you serious on the dirt bike tires? 12lbs, 15lbs...makes no difference to me. I just ride the darn thing. I'm always amazed at...
Off topic...but are you serious on the dirt bike tires?

12lbs, 15lbs...makes no difference to me. I just ride the darn thing. I'm always amazed at how finicky some riders are, and I always assume they are making things up...but if you can honestly feel 1psi difference in your tires, you should be a professional test rider.
Yep TRUE STORY Smile

It's really noticeable, trail riding and a fine line. 15psi is good for preventing flats in rocky terrain. But for terrain that is hard with pea gravel it can be real skatey on single track. 13.5 works best for that.

Even in my vehicles I can notice a 4-5 psi difference.

Suspension:
CRF 450 = 2 clicks I notice
KTM= 1 click

I also notice when air builds up in my forks and am constantly bleeding them, wether I'm at the track or trail.

That's why I chuckle when guys can't wait to spend BIG $$ on their machines, before they get "intimate" with them and really know what they can or can't do.

So yeah maybe your right--I should have been a Factory Test Rider. Cheerful
vet323
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1/22/2015 3:51pm
Bob693 wrote:
Former NFL MVP Rich Gannon told La Canfora that quarterbacks are always doing something to the ball. "Ask any quarterback, and this is a non-issue," Gannon...
Former NFL MVP Rich Gannon told La Canfora that quarterbacks are always doing something to the ball.

"Ask any quarterback, and this is a non-issue," Gannon said. "Everybody does something, to them. It's like a pitcher, he wants the ball a certain way."


Every team tampers with the footballs. Ask any Qb In the league, this is ridiculous!!
10:51 AM - 21 Jan 2015

Matt Leinart
"Ask any quarterback, and this is a non-issue," Gannon said. "Everybody does something, to them. It's like a pitcher, he wants the ball a certain way."

Pitchers sometimes get suspended for doctoring balls, don't they?

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