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Do you remember the bank robbing days of the Wild West?
I went up to Idaho City recently, and walked around the old "Historical" part of town. This place was a boom-town during the gold rush, and was actually bigger than Boise for a while.
There is a placard posted that talks about the cemetery. Of the first 200 plots that were used, 11 were from "natural causes", and the other 189 were from lead poisoning.
Next time your eating out or in the local grocery store or mall, just look around at all the other people. Look closely at them and think "would I want them shooting at a bad guy while Im standing 5 feet away". I think you will answer that question a resounding hell no. Probably less than 5% of our population could hit a target 10 feet away while under the stress of a life and death event.
We don't need to arm everyone to be safe. We just need to prioritize what we want out of our society. If you want true freedom like the Constitution states, these kind of events will happen under that freedom and you have to accept it. Same as wanting to go to Europe and accepting that to get there in 8 hours could mean a crash and burn.
The way I see it is, you're not going to please much of anyone with any decision.
The primary questions are:
1) How do you keep guns from bad people?
2) How do you make it convenient enough for honest, non malicious folks to own guns.
The easy answer to number 1, inconveniences the people in number 2. The easy answer to number 2 makes it easier for bad people to own guns.
I wish there were some unbiased reports showing statistics around gun crimes. Specifically, what percentage of crimes were committed with weapons that legally belonged to the suspect and what percentage of the firearms were stolen?
My first impression is a high percentage are stolen firearms. So then the question becomes, how do we keep the firearm thieves, from stealing firearms? Perhaps the answer is to force safes or some other safe keeping rules on gun owners.
I'm like the wood, I don't have any answers but there's gotta be a better way to go about this than where it currently is.
The Shop
I applaud you.
I am a gun owner, and see the need/utility to keep them around.
The question is: How can we limit the access that bad people seem to readily have?
I don't think that is too tough of a problem to solve, if we all work on finding a solution. The problem is, half of us don't think we have a problem. That is a problem.
In the off-road world, we found out that loud exhausts were a problem. We became pro-active, and started to tell our loud-pipe brothers that they need to tone it down a bit. It seems to be working.
I think those us of who want to keep access to guns need to be proactive in trying to find a solution. Otherwise, if all we do is ignore it, and pretend that the problem does not exist, we might not like the solution that others some up with.....
Here's some for sale.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/8-FIO-12LEBAT
Muzzle velocity: 740 fps.
To your education point, our public school system is not capable of teaching basic math so I'm not sure I think they're the proper venue to teach children gun control. And I also disagree with government imposing that kind of education on kids of parents with different values.
Newmann, what do you think of the gun rights activists marching around traffic, chipotle and target while carrying their firearms. They have the right to do that but I think that is a bit over the top. However, I think those individuals are oddly enough the ones id want to have around in a case like the California ordeal. It doesn't bother me but it seems to draw some negative attention to the pro gun movement even though that's not their intentions.
Pit Row
You can not stop criminals from having guns any more than you can stop the sale of illegal drugs. Who said criminals having guns is not a problem? Half of us didn't say it wasn't a problem. Your problem is a off kilter view of reality, Criminals having guns is a huge problem, also are you going to change human nature? How do you stop knives and bats? Tire irons? Etc.
Here are the choices:
1. Criminals with guns, non-criminals without guns.
2. Criminals with guns, non-criminals with guns.
How do you stop people selling guns on the corner? Behind closed doors? You said it wouldn't be too tough, i am all ears.
Hey asshole why don't you spit out my gun nut, it's getting sore. What kind of stupid comment is this?
"Can we move on to how this crime is an argument for less gun control and standards?"
Simple answer, gun control laws punish honest law abiding citizens. Holy Jesus karate muffin.
This is a failure of brain activity on every level. This is why I go after religion so viciously...it's the mentality that takes over when people are put into a defensive position. It's a knee jerk reaction. How dare somebody ask a question. You lose all focus on truth and resort to complete and utter irrationality.
You quote a question that was asked, and don't even bother to answer. You simply answer a question in your head that you think is threatening. Whatever it was, it wasn't the same honest question that I asked.
Right, the criminals do not follow laws, something that we are all in agreement with. The debate actually isn't about that fact at all. That is a fact and I am agreeing with you that criminals don't follow laws.
If there were zero gun laws and I had say 500 hundred guns and you were my neighbor and if you were attacked I would do everything possible to help you.
This is where I make a case for some regulation. What if it were the police raiding your neighbors house and you thought he was being attacked? What if your neighbor stole one gun..you thought you had 500 guns but you really only have 499? There are so many instances where a simple gun registration program helps the issue.
I am not a murdering criminal and think highly of other people, hence my urge to make things better.
I'm not saying you or any other gun owners here are murdering criminals. If your urge is to make things better, than consider which laws would be helpful and which ones harmful. The goal is to minimize crime with as little impact on lawful owners as possible. This idea of it "has to but all guns or none," is simply false.
Even after it all, I still don't see how this particular case could be an argument for less gun control. We basically have two sides here...the cops and robbers. They had a shootout that killed some innocent people. The fact of the matter is the cops could have killed the hostages.
Now, add another party (Civilian) into this very chaotic gun battle and you have chaos. A potential crossfire from every gun guy that wants to be a hero, and cops that don't know who the good guy and the bad guys are.
Man shoots robber.
Now that's being proactive!
In simple terms:
-Instead of being able to press the whole magazine release button. You have to press the smaller button inside the magazine release with a tool or tip of a bullet. Hence the name "bullet button".
The problem is that anyone "serious" about using the rifle can buy the "illegal" magazine release for $5 online and takes only a minute to switch. Or they make magnetics or gloves that byplass the bullet button.
I can pretty much guarantee that no criminals in CA will obey this law.
Post a reply to: California bank robbery.