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Edited Date/Time
12/2/2012 10:42am
READ and learn you fucking fucktards!
If you actually understand what drives our economy, you just might realize that higher taxes on the rich is good for the ENTIRE country!
When the taxes are low, the rich tend to stash away their earnings and protect their cash in offshore accounts because it is cheap for them to do so.
When taxes are high, they reinvest their money, create jobs and expand their holdings to protect their money from the taxes.
When taxes are higher, we all win! When taxes are low, the rich profit at record levels and the rest of us suffer.
Dont believe me? Read a little about tax rates and prosperity in this country.
If you actually understand what drives our economy, you just might realize that higher taxes on the rich is good for the ENTIRE country!
When the taxes are low, the rich tend to stash away their earnings and protect their cash in offshore accounts because it is cheap for them to do so.
When taxes are high, they reinvest their money, create jobs and expand their holdings to protect their money from the taxes.
When taxes are higher, we all win! When taxes are low, the rich profit at record levels and the rest of us suffer.
Dont believe me? Read a little about tax rates and prosperity in this country.
By WARREN E. BUFFETT
Published: November 25, 2012 NY Times
Suppose that an investor you admire and trust comes to you with an investment idea. “This is a good one,” he says enthusiastically. “I’m in it, and I think you should be, too.”
Would your reply possibly be this? “Well, it all depends on what my tax rate will be on the gain you’re saying we’re going to make. If the taxes are too high, I would rather leave the money in my savings account, earning a quarter of 1 percent.” Only in Grover Norquist’s imagination does such a response exist.
Between 1951 and 1954, when the capital gains rate was 25 percent and marginal rates on dividends reached 91 percent in extreme cases, I sold securities and did pretty well. In the years from 1956 to 1969, the top marginal rate fell modestly, but was still a lofty 70 percent — and the tax rate on capital gains inched up to 27.5 percent. I was managing funds for investors then. Never did anyone mention taxes as a reason to forgo an investment opportunity that I offered.
Under those burdensome rates, moreover, both employment and the gross domestic product (a measure of the nation’s economic output) increased at a rapid clip. The middle class and the rich alike gained ground.
So let’s forget about the rich and ultrarich going on strike and stuffing their ample funds under their mattresses if — gasp — capital gains rates and ordinary income rates are increased. The ultrarich, including me, will forever pursue investment opportunities.
And, wow, do we have plenty to invest. The Forbes 400, the wealthiest individuals in America, hit a new group record for wealth this year: $1.7 trillion. That’s more than five times the $300 billion total in 1992. In recent years, my gang has been leaving the middle class in the dust.
A huge tail wind from tax cuts has pushed us along. In 1992, the tax paid by the 400 highest incomes in the United States (a different universe from the Forbes list) averaged 26.4 percent of adjusted gross income. In 2009, the most recent year reported, the rate was 19.9 percent. It’s nice to have friends in high places.
The group’s average income in 2009 was $202 million — which works out to a “wage” of $97,000 per hour, based on a 40-hour workweek. (I’m assuming they’re paid during lunch hours.) Yet more than a quarter of these ultrawealthy paid less than 15 percent of their take in combined federal income and payroll taxes. Half of this crew paid less than 20 percent. And — brace yourself — a few actually paid nothing.
This outrage points to the necessity for more than a simple revision in upper-end tax rates, though that’s the place to start. I support President Obama’s proposal to eliminate the Bush tax cuts for high-income taxpayers. However, I prefer a cutoff point somewhat above $250,000 — maybe $500,000 or so.
Additionally, we need Congress, right now, to enact a minimum tax on high incomes. I would suggest 30 percent of taxable income between $1 million and $10 million, and 35 percent on amounts above that. A plain and simple rule like that will block the efforts of lobbyists, lawyers and contribution-hungry legislators to keep the ultrarich paying rates well below those incurred by people with income just a tiny fraction of ours. Only a minimum tax on very high incomes will prevent the stated tax rate from being eviscerated by these warriors for the wealthy.
Above all, we should not postpone these changes in the name of “reforming” the tax code. True, changes are badly needed. We need to get rid of arrangements like “carried interest” that enable income from labor to be magically converted into capital gains. And it’s sickening that a Cayman Islands mail drop can be central to tax maneuvering by wealthy individuals and corporations.
But the reform of such complexities should not promote delay in our correcting simple and expensive inequities. We can’t let those who want to protect the privileged get away with insisting that we do nothing until we can do everything.
Our government’s goal should be to bring in revenues of 18.5 percent of G.D.P. and spend about 21 percent of G.D.P. — levels that have been attained over extended periods in the past and can clearly be reached again. As the math makes clear, this won’t stem our budget deficits; in fact, it will continue them. But assuming even conservative projections about inflation and economic growth, this ratio of revenue to spending will keep America’s debt stable in relation to the country’s economic output.
In the last fiscal year, we were far away from this fiscal balance — bringing in 15.5 percent of G.D.P. in revenue and spending 22.4 percent. Correcting our course will require major concessions by both Republicans and Democrats.
All of America is waiting for Congress to offer a realistic and concrete plan for getting back to this fiscally sound path. Nothing less is acceptable.
In the meantime, maybe you’ll run into someone with a terrific investment idea, who won’t go forward with it because of the tax he would owe when it succeeds. Send him my way. Let me unburden him.
Warren E. Buffett is the chairman and chief executive of Berkshire Hathaway.
If spending was under control (by both parties) we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Taxing the rich is a failed model.
The Shop
As to federal revenues derived from capital gains , they jumped from approximately 10% of federal revenue to over 30% during the initial decrease in cap gains rates in the 80's. This also happened to be the time period where Berkshire made dramatic gains. Berkshire IPO'd in 1990 at about 7000.00/share to around 70,000.00/share in just ten years.
There are many other factors involved but to say that people won't alter their investing based on tax rates borders on utter stupidity or, team sports advocacy. Pretty much the same thing to me.
The economy is an immediate problem, the deficit is a mid term problem. Fix the economy and the deficit will reduce. Sheeeeeeesh!
And for those that make the argument that the government cant cut spending, for thats taking away from the economic recovery. Isnt government spending on projects/grants etc., a false economy based on income redistribution, not supply and demand? Its bad for our economy for business to budget off continued government spending rather from demand from the consumer.
Talk about entitlement programs, the rich are the largest recipients of entitlement payouts in this country but no one seems to understand this, why is that?
1. Do away with the social security tax cap. All personal income tax should include social security tax. No reason to stop paying after you make a certain amount. I think it's around $112K per individual now.
2. All capital gains and dividend income should be taxed as normal income, thus putting the ultra rich in the correct tax bracket.
3. Limit deductions on over $500K income earners
4. Reform entitlement programs- No free cellphones, pbs, etc..... These programs are minor to the overall budget, but they add up over the years. None of these bums need a cell phone, people survived without government provided cell phones for thousands of years.
5. Energy: Approve the dam pipeline and get some jobs going. We should use every source of energy we can. BHO is a dam moron for not approving the pipeline.
I know it's fun to shit on the "rich" but without them most wouldn't have a job.
The thing about taxes is its always "fair" when your the one not paying it. You want it to be fair then raise the taxes on everyone.
Besides...the "fiscal cliff" is a made up boogeyman. We should let all the tax cuts expire. Republicans promised certain people they wouldn't raise taxes and so did the prez. Fuck em all, times are tight, all bets are off and taxes are going up for everyone, period.
Seems to me no one is looking around the corner either and there's a big wrinkly sunami coming. 26% of USA's population is just retired in the last 2 years or will in the next 15 years. Anyone got some numbers as to what that will cost us?
If a corporate CEO stifles productivity by not hiring when there is a need, based on their personal tax rate, reducing corporate profitability, that CEO won't be in that position too long. If a small business owner chooses to do the same, he's likely not going to remain in business too long or certainly won't grow.
Employment levels are based on corporate productivity needs, not the CEO's personal income tax rate.
My being in the military, has taught me the importance of sacrifice, and I am will to sacrifice for the greater good on the tax and benefits front as well as the whole leaving the family behind for months on end and living in places that most people would not want to visit.
I understand that in order to truly fix this problem we currently have in this country, everyone will have to sacrifice some. And I am willing to do my part.
The problem always is "how much". How much is enough for the wealthy to pay? The answer is never a number it's always MORE. The same goes for cutting in the government. How much are people willing to take of a decrease in pay or benefits to help. My bet is not enough.
Pit Row
Full lifetime pension and medical for 2 or 4 years of stealing from your contituency?! Where do you think this is heading ?
I told Ron that I had finally figured out what I needed to do to get ahead and have stable income for years to come. He laughed and asked what I had come up with. I told Ron that I was going to run for the Senate or the House. All I had to do was to lie for several years and then I would have a life time pension and medical coverage. Weboth had a good laugh
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