whip / scrub take out Webb ?

Julian
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8/23/2015 12:32am Edited Date/Time 8/24/2015 3:41am
Like Herlings has found out - a whip/scrub can be a good way for a rider to take himself down and out of the way of his competition, as long as they can all avoid hitting him ......

Is that what happened to Cooper Webb in the moto 2 ?
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TXDirt
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8/23/2015 12:37am
I believe that's what happened. He whipped it sideways and it went a bit too far and he wasn't really able to pull it back and he landed sideways and went down. Looked like maybe he hit a wet spot that might have caused the back-end to slide out more then he was expecting.
Julian
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8/23/2015 1:32pm
I have noticed over the years, when this happens, no one wants to admit it, remember Tomac at the MXDN in Germany, he took himself out and the USA lost because Tomac's scrub went too far and no one wanted to admit it.

seems a little odd.

why not just say I scrubbed too hard and lost control and crashed.
IceMan446
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8/23/2015 1:45pm
His bike slide going up the face while he was trying to scrub.

Way different from Tomac's crash.
RMT
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8/23/2015 2:13pm Edited Date/Time 8/23/2015 2:15pm
Don't forget the Canard scrub a few years ago that broke his leg or something like that. I believe it was at Washougal.

Problem is that if your not scrubbing and staying low, your gonna get beat so you can't say they shouldn't do it. Travis Pastrana at the red bull event showed what happens if you can't really scrub well. The dude just pins it, but he lost out to someone that kept the rear wheel on the ground longer.

The continued eveloution of MX thanks to Mr. James Stewart.

The Shop

h&m_cycle
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8/23/2015 2:25pm Edited Date/Time 8/23/2015 2:45pm
RMT wrote:
Don't forget the Canard scrub a few years ago that broke his leg or something like that. I believe it was at Washougal. Problem is that...
Don't forget the Canard scrub a few years ago that broke his leg or something like that. I believe it was at Washougal.

Problem is that if your not scrubbing and staying low, your gonna get beat so you can't say they shouldn't do it. Travis Pastrana at the red bull event showed what happens if you can't really scrub well. The dude just pins it, but he lost out to someone that kept the rear wheel on the ground longer.

The continued eveloution of MX thanks to Mr. James Stewart.
You can beat them for a title without scrubbing that low... Then they can watch people like Dungey win another
championship from their couch...
jloucks742
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8/23/2015 2:38pm Edited Date/Time 8/23/2015 2:38pm
RMT wrote:
Don't forget the Canard scrub a few years ago that broke his leg or something like that. I believe it was at Washougal. Problem is that...
Don't forget the Canard scrub a few years ago that broke his leg or something like that. I believe it was at Washougal.

Problem is that if your not scrubbing and staying low, your gonna get beat so you can't say they shouldn't do it. Travis Pastrana at the red bull event showed what happens if you can't really scrub well. The dude just pins it, but he lost out to someone that kept the rear wheel on the ground longer.

The continued eveloution of MX thanks to Mr. James Stewart.
First thing that comes to mind when I hear "scrub gone wrong" is trey at Washougal. I believe that was one of his many comeback rides too. Broke his femure I believe.
h&m_cycle
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8/23/2015 2:43pm Edited Date/Time 8/23/2015 3:05pm
What's the point edit...
8/23/2015 3:00pm
Julian wrote:
I have noticed over the years, when this happens, no one wants to admit it, remember Tomac at the MXDN in Germany, he took himself out...
I have noticed over the years, when this happens, no one wants to admit it, remember Tomac at the MXDN in Germany, he took himself out and the USA lost because Tomac's scrub went too far and no one wanted to admit it.

seems a little odd.

why not just say I scrubbed too hard and lost control and crashed.
I'm seeing a trend in the stupid shit you post.
early
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8/23/2015 3:13pm
Julian wrote:
I have noticed over the years, when this happens, no one wants to admit it, remember Tomac at the MXDN in Germany, he took himself out...
I have noticed over the years, when this happens, no one wants to admit it, remember Tomac at the MXDN in Germany, he took himself out and the USA lost because Tomac's scrub went too far and no one wanted to admit it.

seems a little odd.

why not just say I scrubbed too hard and lost control and crashed.
Tomac hit a kicker/rut in the shadows on the face of that jump. He was off the bike instantly, not a scrub gone wrong it was a whole jump gone wrong with no chance of landing it.
jloucks742
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8/23/2015 3:30pm
Julian wrote:
I have noticed over the years, when this happens, no one wants to admit it, remember Tomac at the MXDN in Germany, he took himself out...
I have noticed over the years, when this happens, no one wants to admit it, remember Tomac at the MXDN in Germany, he took himself out and the USA lost because Tomac's scrub went too far and no one wanted to admit it.

seems a little odd.

why not just say I scrubbed too hard and lost control and crashed.
early wrote:
Tomac hit a kicker/rut in the shadows on the face of that jump. He was off the bike instantly, not a scrub gone wrong it was...
Tomac hit a kicker/rut in the shadows on the face of that jump. He was off the bike instantly, not a scrub gone wrong it was a whole jump gone wrong with no chance of landing it.
Early is correct. See below
machine
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8/23/2015 6:43pm
Cool post by Webb ^^^^
Jspazz
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8/23/2015 7:26pm Edited Date/Time 8/23/2015 7:27pm
Julian wrote:
I have noticed over the years, when this happens, no one wants to admit it, remember Tomac at the MXDN in Germany, he took himself out...
I have noticed over the years, when this happens, no one wants to admit it, remember Tomac at the MXDN in Germany, he took himself out and the USA lost because Tomac's scrub went too far and no one wanted to admit it.

seems a little odd.

why not just say I scrubbed too hard and lost control and crashed.
early wrote:
Tomac hit a kicker/rut in the shadows on the face of that jump. He was off the bike instantly, not a scrub gone wrong it was...
Tomac hit a kicker/rut in the shadows on the face of that jump. He was off the bike instantly, not a scrub gone wrong it was a whole jump gone wrong with no chance of landing it.
And if tomac hadn't scrubbed so hard and early, after the rut, he would have looked like Roczen over that jump. What am I missing? It's entertaining for us for sure, but I've never heard him talk about owning up to what happens...blame the track. Here's what he said about the end of 2015 at Thunder valley for him:

"Man, once again, I was out pretty close to the front early on, which helped me get to the lead there," Tomac said in a statement. "Had a good little battle with Ken there and snuck around him. Then at that point I tried to stay on two wheels because this track is really, really rutted today. It can come up and bite you.”

Cheers to Webb for the man-up.
RMT
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8/23/2015 7:40pm
h&m_cycle wrote:
You can beat them for a title without scrubbing that low... Then they can watch people like Dungey win another
championship from their couch...
Totally agree, there is a line and we have seen a lot of top guys cross it lately.
gsxrcr28
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8/23/2015 7:42pm
machine wrote:
Cool post by Webb ^^^^
Yep.

I'm becoming a huge fan of his. I know the stuff with Marvin rubbed a few the wrong way, but RJ, Hurricane and Bradshaw had that same cocky attitude and I was a huge fan of theirs also. Cool
mehow2g
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8/23/2015 8:47pm
I called it earlier this year, Webb is going to hurt himself for being too cute, is ego is absolutely huge since that SX title, he rides like a show off.

montesagold
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8/23/2015 11:16pm
After watching a battle at muddy creek a few years ago between jacob hayes and mike brown, hayes took himself out trying to make a pass with a scrub. He near tore his finger off at the nuckle. Brownie said that's the reason he was so conventional with his riding style. He knew he was giving up time in a few scenarios but the risk out weighed it. Thats the difference in alot of these young kids ending their careers prematurely versus a guy that is 43 years old with a factory contract.
Julian
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8/24/2015 12:04am
Julian wrote:
I have noticed over the years, when this happens, no one wants to admit it, remember Tomac at the MXDN in Germany, he took himself out...
I have noticed over the years, when this happens, no one wants to admit it, remember Tomac at the MXDN in Germany, he took himself out and the USA lost because Tomac's scrub went too far and no one wanted to admit it.

seems a little odd.

why not just say I scrubbed too hard and lost control and crashed.
I'm seeing a trend in the stupid shit you post.
Hi Dan the Man

it seems from the posts I read here that others too have an odd trend like I have and see this scrub/whip thing the way Mike Brown does.

Just think clearly for a moment:

1. Cooper said he crashed because he scrubbed too much

2. The video of Tomac shows that he started a scrub and then crashed, both commentators immediately noted the crash was due to the scrub attempt.

And yet some fans still want to blame it on a hidden rut etc. Can you all not see that if Tomac had just ridden up the face of the jump with no intent whatsoever to scrub it.... he would simply have just flown over it a little higher but at least upright..... he may have lost about 1/5000 of a second by not scrubbing but he would be in the race and the USA would have been MXDN champions !!! Probably a dumb question to post here but I just know that some others will agree with the MXGP commentators
Julian
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8/24/2015 1:42am
Thank you EK298 for your thoughtful reply,

you are right, riders need to ride the way they want and take the risks they feel are worth it.

It is just I am 57 years old now and I hate seeing our young stars injured or seeing them fall due to something within their control
throwing big whips on the first lap while in the middle of a pack makes me nervous too

it just seems to me I do not remember so many riders getting injured back in the 70's 80's

i think this is my point: if a rider wants to risk a scrub, that is his right - if he falls due to the the scrub, he should just say so so it will be clear to all young riders coming up why the crash happened, but what I see often is when a scrub does cause an accident, neither the rider nor the press make any reference to it.
joeellis
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8/24/2015 3:41am
Julian wrote:
Thank you EK298 for your thoughtful reply, you are right, riders need to ride the way they want and take the risks they feel are worth...
Thank you EK298 for your thoughtful reply,

you are right, riders need to ride the way they want and take the risks they feel are worth it.

It is just I am 57 years old now and I hate seeing our young stars injured or seeing them fall due to something within their control
throwing big whips on the first lap while in the middle of a pack makes me nervous too

it just seems to me I do not remember so many riders getting injured back in the 70's 80's

i think this is my point: if a rider wants to risk a scrub, that is his right - if he falls due to the the scrub, he should just say so so it will be clear to all young riders coming up why the crash happened, but what I see often is when a scrub does cause an accident, neither the rider nor the press make any reference to it.
Motocross has evolved just as other sports have. By that I mean, the athletes are on such a strict workout routine now that they have become capable of doing things the body can't handle when an accident occurs. Medical techniques have evloved along with this. In the 70' & 80's a torn ACL was practically career ending. Now it is a simple procedure with a few months rehab.

Add the additional element of how good and fast the bikes are now and you have a recipe for disaster. Many of the top riders are pushing it so hard now, they are constantly on the brink of disaster. Eli is a perfect example this year. At the beginning of the outdoor season, he was arguably the fastes guy in the world. For sure he was on this continent.

I don't think these guys necessarilly push any harder than the top guys from decades back, but the bikes are so much better now with much better suspension which allows them to jump obstacles that could have never been conquered back in the day. The modern tracks in the US seem to be set up now with many more extreme jumps as a result.

I'm not providing an answer, but it takes the fun out of things to some degree when many of the top riders are on the sidelines so often. To me, this is another thing that impresses me about Dungey. He is the fastest American at the moment, hands down (with the exception of Tomac of coarse) and he rarely crashes out. Would have been fun to see a healthy Tomac and Dungey go at it all summer.

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