the rear brake on the bars (home page)

TripleFive 6/16/2012 9:01am
6/16/2012 9:01am
carlosmacho wrote:
And this shows that there are advantages to either way and that people can adjust. But I think with any interface you try to make it...
And this shows that there are advantages to either way and that people can adjust. But I think with any interface you try to make it as natural as possible. I do not know the psychology of it all but when a person is heading toward an object their tendency is not to reach forward to and grab a brake on handlebars, but to shrink back. That is why it is easy for people to step on the brake in a car. Or on a street bike many riders in emergency braking they hit the rear foot brake but do not grab the front brake because the tendency is to shrink back with the arms and push forward with the legs because that is what you would do when running and trying to stop quickly, your legs go forward and your head and arms move behind, to the point of falling down on your butt to stop.

So in the design of an interface, using natural human tendency is best especially in emergency situations where the brain will override training or your own efforts to override natural reaction and go back to a automatic defense that has been programmed into the mind before you were born.
You could also that that it's not a natural human tendency to 'skim whoops' either but we manage Smile
dcg141
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dcg141 6/16/2012 9:02am
6/16/2012 9:02am
The Rekluse is pretty standard in off road racing. So much so that if you call Rekluse today to order one for a KTM 300 you will get on a waiting list. A KTM 300 with an autoclutch is a deadly hare scramble/GP weapon. The left side handbrake is used in offraod but not as much as the Rekluse itself. The guys that use that setup tend to be very fast and swear by it though.
dougie
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dougie 6/16/2012 9:17am
6/16/2012 9:17am
GuyB wrote:
Here are three reasons why it might be cool: Personally, with all my cycling experience, I think I'd have more control with hand-operated rear brake than...
Here are three reasons why it might be cool:

Personally, with all my cycling experience, I think I'd have more control with hand-operated rear brake than I would with a foot-operated brake.

Some people have compromised ankles (fused), or other injuries that'd prevent then from operating a rear brake.

Right hand turns.
Thats me. Id wanted a thumb operated rear brake all thru my mx days. My right ankle is fused so equires me to use my right heal to brake. Also make wheelyin' a lot easier Id think.

Ive got a similar problem on the bicycle. On my tri bike the shifters are located at the end of the aero bars. What I want is a front brake lever on my right aero.
tobz
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tobz 6/17/2012 12:24am
6/17/2012 12:24am
tobz wrote:
Lol uh, its pretty simple, the wheel makes more centrifugal weight while it's turning really fast (fill a bucket full of water and swing it around...
Lol uh, its pretty simple, the wheel makes more centrifugal weight while it's turning really fast (fill a bucket full of water and swing it around in a windmill motion, it feels heavier!). As soon as you stop/slow the rear wheel in the air, the centrifugal forces stop, making the wheel lighter.
FGR01 wrote:
Not to start a big physics discussion (can anyone say seat bounce?) but I don't think it's actually that the rear wheel gets lighter when it...
Not to start a big physics discussion (can anyone say seat bounce?) but I don't think it's actually that the rear wheel gets lighter when it stops. It's that all that rotational force (centrifugal force) of the wheel is transferred into rotational force of the bike when you engage the rear brake in the air.
yzmatt wrote:
Exactly right. If, for example, the back wheel were spinning the other direction and you tapped the break it would want to make the back end...
Exactly right. If, for example, the back wheel were spinning the other direction and you tapped the break it would want to make the back end drop. Obviously this isn't possible, but for the sake of discussion it provides a good example.
Interesting theory.

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Bosco
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Bosco 6/17/2012 7:22pm
6/17/2012 7:22pm
FGR01 wrote:
Not to start a big physics discussion (can anyone say seat bounce?) but I don't think it's actually that the rear wheel gets lighter when it...
Not to start a big physics discussion (can anyone say seat bounce?) but I don't think it's actually that the rear wheel gets lighter when it stops. It's that all that rotational force (centrifugal force) of the wheel is transferred into rotational force of the bike when you engage the rear brake in the air.
yzmatt wrote:
Exactly right. If, for example, the back wheel were spinning the other direction and you tapped the break it would want to make the back end...
Exactly right. If, for example, the back wheel were spinning the other direction and you tapped the break it would want to make the back end drop. Obviously this isn't possible, but for the sake of discussion it provides a good example.
tobz wrote:
Interesting theory.
It's not a theory, it's the Principle of Conservation of Momentum, and it's taught to most young teens in school. That's why tapping the front brake will drop the front end too (as well as screwing up your landing...)
carlosmacho
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carlosmacho 6/17/2012 7:34pm
6/17/2012 7:34pm Edited Date/Time 6/17/2012 7:42pm
carlosmacho wrote:
And this shows that there are advantages to either way and that people can adjust. But I think with any interface you try to make it...
And this shows that there are advantages to either way and that people can adjust. But I think with any interface you try to make it as natural as possible. I do not know the psychology of it all but when a person is heading toward an object their tendency is not to reach forward to and grab a brake on handlebars, but to shrink back. That is why it is easy for people to step on the brake in a car. Or on a street bike many riders in emergency braking they hit the rear foot brake but do not grab the front brake because the tendency is to shrink back with the arms and push forward with the legs because that is what you would do when running and trying to stop quickly, your legs go forward and your head and arms move behind, to the point of falling down on your butt to stop.

So in the design of an interface, using natural human tendency is best especially in emergency situations where the brain will override training or your own efforts to override natural reaction and go back to a automatic defense that has been programmed into the mind before you were born.
TripleFive wrote:
You could also that that it's not a natural human tendency to 'skim whoops' either but we manage Smile
You can manage to do all sorts of unnatural things. But interface design, whether it be for a computer, a car, or a bike. Making the process is as close to natural and instinctual to do unnatural things like skimming the whoops.
Zacka 161
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Zacka 161 6/17/2012 9:25pm
6/17/2012 9:25pm
This is what i used

http://www.clake.com.au/

Its called a Clake and as the name suggests combines the clutch and the rear brake into one lever. The clutch engages before the brake and the overlap can be adjusted. It also allows the rear brake to remain on the foot pedal.

Overall i liked the use of it, i had electronic shifting so it was difficult to pull the lever while pressing the button so i had an ignition cutout for clutch free upshifts, but it was great for downshift and really encouraged reducing coasting time. I would come into corners, brake and shift down, and then let off the brakes and let the clutch out at pretty much the same time.

Its an interesting product, unfortunately it didnt work with the original Rekluse that i had and got rid of because two levers on the left side of the bars was hard to use and simply removing the clutch made the power come on too smooth and boring. It also repeatedly burnt out my clutch fiber plates.
However if i could combine the two it would mean trouble free clutchless upshifts and pretty much zero chance of stalling.
rallendude
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rallendude 6/17/2012 10:59pm
6/17/2012 10:59pm
Like said above, the rekluse/hand rear brake is mostly a tight woods racing deal. Rekluse gives the no stall benefit and also reduces hand fatigue in long motos of tight woods where you're constantly on the clutch. The hand operated rear brake not only gives more feel and control but also frees up the feet for other things, like dabbing in tight stuff. One of the main fatigues I suffer with in tight woods racing is cramping in my upper right thigh due to 2-3 hrs of continually being in and off the brakes. I could see a big benefit in using one if I could get used to the brake deal.

Here locally we have a 24 hr HS race each year, 24 hrs of Maplesville. Last year or year before one of the faster local vet MX guys got on a team and the bike they rode was set up rekluse and handlebar brakes. First lap out he's all gusto and decides to jump the big triple on the MX portion of the course since most of the woods guys shy away from that. He comes out of the corner before, nails the throttle, and grabs a little feather of the clutch, but it wasn't the clutch. It was rear brake, no matter, he'd just make up for it by holding the power on a little longer up the face. Wrong, he'd lost a little too much speed. The bike was set up for woods and didn't accelerate like his MX bike. Add to that the suspension was way too soft for a 190 lb guy to come up 6 feet short in a 100' triple and he wadded it up pretty big. Tore the front end all up and knocked a big dent in the teams chances of finishing well. Not sure I'm going to try that hand brake deal, although it does sound cool.

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