real question about fork choice

rmpilot
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rmpilot
Edited Date/Time 8/11/2014 5:38pm
why would Honda run anything other than showa, Yamaha with kayaba or ohlins and ktm with wp? my understanding is those companies own the suspension companies.
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ML512
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ML512 8/10/2014 7:47am
8/10/2014 7:47am
rmpilot wrote:
why would Honda run anything other than showa, Yamaha with kayaba or ohlins and ktm with wp? my understanding is those companies own the suspension companies.
Honda doesn't own Showa. They own a portion of American Showa (group partnership you could say).

Yamaha also just recently purchased KYB (that one is really hard to explain, as I don't think even the guys at KYB over here understand that one Laughing )

KTM does own WP, but they've considering switching before. Such as some heavy testing that involved KYB towards the end of 2008.
rmpilot
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rmpilot 8/10/2014 10:46am
8/10/2014 10:46am
rmpilot wrote:
why would Honda run anything other than showa, Yamaha with kayaba or ohlins and ktm with wp? my understanding is those companies own the suspension companies.
ML512 wrote:
Honda doesn't own Showa. They own a portion of American Showa (group partnership you could say). Yamaha also just recently purchased KYB (that one is really...
Honda doesn't own Showa. They own a portion of American Showa (group partnership you could say).

Yamaha also just recently purchased KYB (that one is really hard to explain, as I don't think even the guys at KYB over here understand that one Laughing )

KTM does own WP, but they've considering switching before. Such as some heavy testing that involved KYB towards the end of 2008.
Thanks it makes a lot more sense now. Because I saw the Honda and Showa part a few years ago and it left me scratching my head why cr 125's had kayaba and cr 250's showa.
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 8/10/2014 10:54am
8/10/2014 10:54am
rmpilot wrote:
why would Honda run anything other than showa, Yamaha with kayaba or ohlins and ktm with wp? my understanding is those companies own the suspension companies.
ML512 wrote:
Honda doesn't own Showa. They own a portion of American Showa (group partnership you could say). Yamaha also just recently purchased KYB (that one is really...
Honda doesn't own Showa. They own a portion of American Showa (group partnership you could say).

Yamaha also just recently purchased KYB (that one is really hard to explain, as I don't think even the guys at KYB over here understand that one Laughing )

KTM does own WP, but they've considering switching before. Such as some heavy testing that involved KYB towards the end of 2008.
rmpilot wrote:
Thanks it makes a lot more sense now. Because I saw the Honda and Showa part a few years ago and it left me scratching my...
Thanks it makes a lot more sense now. Because I saw the Honda and Showa part a few years ago and it left me scratching my head why cr 125's had kayaba and cr 250's showa.
I know people won't believe this; but, many choices on production equipment are about cost. Nowadays, they have to be.

Note: Yamaha's come with KYB SSS forks and that says a lot. They're the kind of fork that everyone knows how to set-up (versus air) &...from what I'm told...

They cost more.

Oh, they weigh about 2.5 pounds more, too.

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rmpilot
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rmpilot 8/11/2014 3:47am
8/11/2014 3:47am
That just goes with what I can see out there with bikes right now. I really believe Yamaha just makes the overall package consistently between both quality, performance and usability.
Crush
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Crush 8/11/2014 4:20am
8/11/2014 4:20am
If KTM switched to SSS instead of WP it'd be no contest for ever bike test on the planet.
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endurox 8/11/2014 6:21am
8/11/2014 6:21am
At one time Yamaha owned Ohlins. Not sure why the piano company sold the swedish company.
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Steve125 8/11/2014 8:07am
8/11/2014 8:07am
I heard on TV Canard was swapping fork brands on his bike.. Anyone know what he ran with at Dilla?
JA946
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JA946 8/11/2014 8:40am
8/11/2014 8:40am
Crush wrote:
If KTM switched to SSS instead of WP it'd be no contest for ever bike test on the planet.
I would own one.
Crush
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Crush 8/11/2014 8:45am
8/11/2014 8:45am
Crush wrote:
If KTM switched to SSS instead of WP it'd be no contest for ever bike test on the planet.
JA946 wrote:
I would own one.
Mate so many times I've looked up about swapping them. One dude has done it but it involved fabricating different caliper lugs and what not... Or even swapping out fork lug caps and blah blah blah.

Then I saw a KTM Japan factory team bike, with works KYB SSS stuff. I cried, said why not me, and went to sleep.

I just got my WP done by THE guy down here. See how it goes!
JA946
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JA946 8/11/2014 8:58am
8/11/2014 8:58am
Crush wrote:
Mate so many times I've looked up about swapping them. One dude has done it but it involved fabricating different caliper lugs and what not... Or...
Mate so many times I've looked up about swapping them. One dude has done it but it involved fabricating different caliper lugs and what not... Or even swapping out fork lug caps and blah blah blah.

Then I saw a KTM Japan factory team bike, with works KYB SSS stuff. I cried, said why not me, and went to sleep.

I just got my WP done by THE guy down here. See how it goes!
Why is it so difficult? Use the KTM master cylinder, the yamaha caliper, and the KTM braided line. for triple clamps, just get an after market set?
ML512
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ML512 8/11/2014 9:05am
8/11/2014 9:05am
Crush wrote:
Mate so many times I've looked up about swapping them. One dude has done it but it involved fabricating different caliper lugs and what not... Or...
Mate so many times I've looked up about swapping them. One dude has done it but it involved fabricating different caliper lugs and what not... Or even swapping out fork lug caps and blah blah blah.

Then I saw a KTM Japan factory team bike, with works KYB SSS stuff. I cried, said why not me, and went to sleep.

I just got my WP done by THE guy down here. See how it goes!
JA946 wrote:
Why is it so difficult? Use the KTM master cylinder, the yamaha caliper, and the KTM braided line. for triple clamps, just get an after market...
Why is it so difficult? Use the KTM master cylinder, the yamaha caliper, and the KTM braided line. for triple clamps, just get an after market set?
You don't even need a set of triple clamps, the upper tube size is nearly identical and is within tolerances.

Ross (Enzo) has been messing around with putting SSS internals and PSF internals in WP tubes. He also has made some lugs to put the KYBs directly onto the KTM.
Tim507
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Tim507 8/11/2014 9:20am
8/11/2014 9:20am
Just scored a set of 2013 Cone Forks for my son to use.........the thought of SSS internals into a WP set up is interesting......
JA946
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JA946 8/11/2014 9:26am
8/11/2014 9:26am
Crush wrote:
Mate so many times I've looked up about swapping them. One dude has done it but it involved fabricating different caliper lugs and what not... Or...
Mate so many times I've looked up about swapping them. One dude has done it but it involved fabricating different caliper lugs and what not... Or even swapping out fork lug caps and blah blah blah.

Then I saw a KTM Japan factory team bike, with works KYB SSS stuff. I cried, said why not me, and went to sleep.

I just got my WP done by THE guy down here. See how it goes!
JA946 wrote:
Why is it so difficult? Use the KTM master cylinder, the yamaha caliper, and the KTM braided line. for triple clamps, just get an after market...
Why is it so difficult? Use the KTM master cylinder, the yamaha caliper, and the KTM braided line. for triple clamps, just get an after market set?
ML512 wrote:
You don't even need a set of triple clamps, the upper tube size is nearly identical and is within tolerances. Ross (Enzo) has been messing around...
You don't even need a set of triple clamps, the upper tube size is nearly identical and is within tolerances.

Ross (Enzo) has been messing around with putting SSS internals and PSF internals in WP tubes. He also has made some lugs to put the KYBs directly onto the KTM.
How's the width? Could you get away with a YZ front wheel and spacers?
ML512
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ML512 8/11/2014 9:29am
8/11/2014 9:29am
JA946 wrote:
Why is it so difficult? Use the KTM master cylinder, the yamaha caliper, and the KTM braided line. for triple clamps, just get an after market...
Why is it so difficult? Use the KTM master cylinder, the yamaha caliper, and the KTM braided line. for triple clamps, just get an after market set?
ML512 wrote:
You don't even need a set of triple clamps, the upper tube size is nearly identical and is within tolerances. Ross (Enzo) has been messing around...
You don't even need a set of triple clamps, the upper tube size is nearly identical and is within tolerances.

Ross (Enzo) has been messing around with putting SSS internals and PSF internals in WP tubes. He also has made some lugs to put the KYBs directly onto the KTM.
JA946 wrote:
How's the width? Could you get away with a YZ front wheel and spacers?
Mmmm I'm not sure, but I want to say no. The set I had worked on were in stock clamps, but had different lugs to accommodate the KTM axle, wheel, and brake caliper.
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Crush 8/11/2014 9:49am
8/11/2014 9:49am
JA946 wrote:
Why is it so difficult? Use the KTM master cylinder, the yamaha caliper, and the KTM braided line. for triple clamps, just get an after market...
Why is it so difficult? Use the KTM master cylinder, the yamaha caliper, and the KTM braided line. for triple clamps, just get an after market set?
See all the posts above?

That's why!

I just can't be assed. Some showas go straight in with a bracket for the Brembo callper, but wheels, spacers, shims, and fab work seems like a lot.

I'd be interested to here about different lugs, and shims, that might be easy, but I bet it aint cheap!
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Crush 8/11/2014 9:50am
8/11/2014 9:50am
Then again Digger or MXBoy will be along to tell me how I should get Ohlins. And i'll have an internal fight for the next 3 days before again coming to the conclusion that I don't ride enough unfortunately and I should stop crying.
ML512
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ML512 8/11/2014 9:51am
8/11/2014 9:51am
JA946 wrote:
Why is it so difficult? Use the KTM master cylinder, the yamaha caliper, and the KTM braided line. for triple clamps, just get an after market...
Why is it so difficult? Use the KTM master cylinder, the yamaha caliper, and the KTM braided line. for triple clamps, just get an after market set?
Crush wrote:
See all the posts above? That's why! I just can't be assed. Some showas go straight in with a bracket for the Brembo callper, but wheels...
See all the posts above?

That's why!

I just can't be assed. Some showas go straight in with a bracket for the Brembo callper, but wheels, spacers, shims, and fab work seems like a lot.

I'd be interested to here about different lugs, and shims, that might be easy, but I bet it aint cheap!
Realistically, I believe the cheapest option is to put the internals in the WP tubes. That also requires a different bottoming cone, but overall it's the most cost-effective option.

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Crush
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Crush 8/11/2014 10:07am
8/11/2014 10:07am
Ya I've read that but have also read that it didn't yield the best results.... ....
JA946
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JA946 8/11/2014 10:15am
8/11/2014 10:15am
Crush wrote:
Then again Digger or MXBoy will be along to tell me how I should get Ohlins. And i'll have an internal fight for the next 3...
Then again Digger or MXBoy will be along to tell me how I should get Ohlins. And i'll have an internal fight for the next 3 days before again coming to the conclusion that I don't ride enough unfortunately and I should stop crying.
I sold my CRF270....

And I'm not going to lie. I want a FC350/350sxf BADLY....
JA946
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JA946 8/11/2014 10:15am
8/11/2014 10:15am
ML512 wrote:
Realistically, I believe the cheapest option is to put the internals in the WP tubes. That also requires a different bottoming cone, but overall it's the...
Realistically, I believe the cheapest option is to put the internals in the WP tubes. That also requires a different bottoming cone, but overall it's the most cost-effective option.
What is the cost associated to this?
Digger29
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Digger29 8/11/2014 10:19am
8/11/2014 10:19am
Crush wrote:
Then again Digger or MXBoy will be along to tell me how I should get Ohlins. And i'll have an internal fight for the next 3...
Then again Digger or MXBoy will be along to tell me how I should get Ohlins. And i'll have an internal fight for the next 3 days before again coming to the conclusion that I don't ride enough unfortunately and I should stop crying.
Ohlins Crush Ohlins :-) They bolt right on and you do nothing but enjoy plush, forgiving and confidence inspiring ride :-)
ML512
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ML512 8/11/2014 10:32am
8/11/2014 10:32am
ML512 wrote:
Realistically, I believe the cheapest option is to put the internals in the WP tubes. That also requires a different bottoming cone, but overall it's the...
Realistically, I believe the cheapest option is to put the internals in the WP tubes. That also requires a different bottoming cone, but overall it's the most cost-effective option.
JA946 wrote:
What is the cost associated to this?
Total spam moment... Call Enzo... I can't remember. Laughing
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Darryl916 8/11/2014 11:13am
8/11/2014 11:13am
enketchum wrote:
It's a hard choice [img]http://ladypersonified.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/tablesettings/.pond/forks2.jpg.w300h299.jpg[/img]
It's a hard choice

Crush
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Crush 8/11/2014 5:30pm
8/11/2014 5:30pm
Crush wrote:
Then again Digger or MXBoy will be along to tell me how I should get Ohlins. And i'll have an internal fight for the next 3...
Then again Digger or MXBoy will be along to tell me how I should get Ohlins. And i'll have an internal fight for the next 3 days before again coming to the conclusion that I don't ride enough unfortunately and I should stop crying.
Digger29 wrote:
Ohlins Crush Ohlins :-) They bolt right on and you do nothing but enjoy plush, forgiving and confidence inspiring ride :-)
See!

haha. Yeah I know. Just can't justify it. One day, I'm slowly heading towards supercushyvetguy anyways.
thorns
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thorns 8/11/2014 5:38pm
8/11/2014 5:38pm
I've always wondered how since 2006, no other suspension company has managed to come close the KYB SSS suspension. Its still the best production bike suspension by far and hasn't been messed with for nearly 10 years, yet no one else can come close out of the box.

It almost seems most of the company's except Yamaha, suspension is an after thought.

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