out of these 3 greats who had the...

PastranaWho
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Edited Date/Time 5/1/2014 8:31am
stiffest competion? and who had the weakest?

RV

MC

RC
|
Darryl916
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4/29/2014 7:09pm Edited Date/Time 4/29/2014 8:07pm
stiffest competion? and who had the weakest?

RV

MC

RC
Stiffest:

RC outdoors (James)

RV SX (everyone in the top 5)

Weakest:

MC (retired when Emig came along, didn't race outdoors much)
Darryl916
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4/29/2014 7:10pm Edited Date/Time 4/29/2014 7:11pm
.....
PastranaWho
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4/29/2014 7:12pm Edited Date/Time 4/30/2014 5:43am
MCgrath had the weakest compettion and once RC came in to town he had nothing for him, By far RV has had the stiffest competition and has dominated. To me RV is the 2nd GOAT.

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RonSkj
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4/29/2014 7:13pm
MC had had the weakest. RC & RV had about the same!
Crush
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4/29/2014 7:24pm Edited Date/Time 4/29/2014 7:30pm
It's kinda all relative.

MC's was apparently week. Really tho it was because he was SOOOO much better than everyone.

He did that to Stanton (6 time), Kiedrowski (4 time), Emig (4 Time), Larocco (3 time) Albee (3MXGP. 1 National), Henry (3 time), Lamson(2 time) plus a host of other super talented riders Windham, Bradshaw, Swink, Craig, Dowd, Reynard, Lusk, and DV.

RC took him down over a lot of the same comp but then had to step up to Reed and Bubba

RV has beaten both of them plus Dungey/Canard and whoever else is riding. He's not lost a title he's completed barring injury. I do think RV has had tougher comp as everyone is busting their asses right now and the margins are smaller, ie he's been under pressure almost all the time. MC/RC were for whatever reasons, locking up all their titles way way way early. RV's done that twice.
bd
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4/29/2014 7:27pm Edited Date/Time 4/29/2014 7:47pm
stiffest competion? and who had the weakest?

RV

MC

RC
Darryl916 wrote:
Stiffest:

RC outdoors (James)

RV SX (everyone in the top 5)

Weakest:

MC (retired when Emig came along, didn't race outdoors much)
MC

- Rookie year had Stanton, Bradshaw, MX Kied, Larocco - not exactly easy crowd
- Emig, Hughes, Henry, Lamson, Lusk, RC

RC

- MC
- Lusk
- DV
- CR
- CR, KW, JS

RV

- Dungey
- Tomac
- Canard
- Barcia
- Reed
- JS7
- Kroc

I do believe RV's had the hardest competition. These 250F champs coming up are no joke - Dungey, Canard, KROC, and Barcia all won races their rookie year
bd
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4/29/2014 7:28pm
Crush wrote:
It's kinda all relative. MC's was [i]apparently[/i] week. Really tho it was because he was SOOOO much better than everyone. He did that to Stanton (6...
It's kinda all relative.

MC's was apparently week. Really tho it was because he was SOOOO much better than everyone.

He did that to Stanton (6 time), Kiedrowski (4 time), Emig (4 Time), Larocco (3 time) Albee (3MXGP. 1 National), Henry (3 time), Lamson(2 time) plus a host of other super talented riders Windham, Bradshaw, Swink, Craig, Dowd, Reynard, Lusk, and DV.

RC took him down over a lot of the same comp but then had to step up to Reed and Bubba

RV has beaten both of them plus Dungey/Canard and whoever else is riding. He's not lost a title he's completed barring injury. I do think RV has had tougher comp as everyone is busting their asses right now and the margins are smaller, ie he's been under pressure almost all the time. MC/RC were for whatever reasons, locking up all their titles way way way early. RV's done that twice.
Well said. That said, all of these gentleman are fine champions
Crush
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4/29/2014 7:29pm
Darryl916 wrote:
Stiffest:

RC outdoors (James)

RV SX (everyone in the top 5)

Weakest:

MC (retired when Emig came along, didn't race outdoors much)
MC had Reed as comp?

Eh? In Bercy?
Crush
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4/29/2014 7:36pm
kongols wrote:
Maybe MC was that good?
It's so hard to say hey!

He definitely was wayyyy advanced technically than the rest in SX. Outdoors too, you'd have to think he would have had a good shot at the 98-99 titles if he chose to race. 96 you could argue he left it at Millville and 97 I can't remember but he was on a yellow bike haha.

RC came along and wasn't technically as good, but strong enough to go WFO for all 20, MC might not have done 20 at his absolute best till then.

I'm always a believer too in the riders ride to situations. Like Reed racing Stewy first two races of 08 then partying and draggin ass by the end of it. He knew he could get away with it. I bet if Lusk never crashed, and KW wasn't a headcase, or MXKied/LaRocco could start for a damn, then MC would have trained more.
TDeath21
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4/29/2014 7:46pm
Villopoto has the stiffest competition. Here's why ... He didn't bring anything extra to the table like MC and RC to get an edge on his competition. That's not his fault at all. The sport got to a point in the 06-07 range to where you can't really do anything else to go faster and get an edge on your competition.

MC brought the new style to the table from BMX. He stayed so much lower over the jumps and just made everything look so easy. His championships and race wins show that.

RC was the first to do year round hardcore training, and he dismantled his competition because of that, along with obviously being extremely fast. Remember by this point everyone had caught onto MC's style.

Stewart came along and brought the scrub to the table. This shaved a good second off their laptimes in SX. This gave him a huge advantage. This kind of overlapped with RC's training, but a lot of people were getting the training aspect down and weren't scrubbing yet.

You look at Villopoto and he doesn't have that one major thing to separate him from the competition. Everyone is doing the things MC was, everyone is training as hard as RC did, and everyone is scrubbing like James did. He's dominating in a way nobody has before him. For the sole reason that MC and RC brought the sport to completely new levels, and James added to it with the scrub, the fact that Villopoto is dominating like he is right now is simply amazing.

Are the riders actually better now than they used to be? No I don't think so. I think their competition level is equal in that aspect. It's just that as the sport has evolved and the great riders have forced everyone to do things that was once unheard of, and there's really nowhere else for the sport to evolve to, that makes me think what Villopoto is doing now is more impressive than any previous dominant champion before him.

Also remember Villopoto is doing it with everyone on 4 strokes. This is not a 2 vs 4 argument, but it's widely agreed upon that 4 strokes tighten up the competition.

With all those factors taken into consideration, if we are ranking championships, Villopoto's four in a row has to be the most impressive in my opinion.
Crush
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4/29/2014 7:52pm
Yeah RV's winning a lot in an era where his comp is or has been very close. It's hard to overlook that.

Definitely 4 strokes made it easier for everyone too, 2 stroke days, there was usually 1-3 dudes doing everything perfect and fast if that and a mistake was super costly timewise.
rebus
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4/29/2014 7:58pm
Look at the number of titles McGrath's competitor's had when he raced. Then do the same for RC and then again for RV. RV wins hands down. RV has faced the stiffest competition of them all, IN MY OPINION, because you have titles from Reed, Stewart, and Dungey. That's a lot of titles.
Darryl916
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4/29/2014 8:09pm Edited Date/Time 4/29/2014 8:12pm
Darryl916 wrote:
Stiffest:

RC outdoors (James)

RV SX (everyone in the top 5)

Weakest:

MC (retired when Emig came along, didn't race outdoors much)
Crush wrote:
MC had Reed as comp?

Eh? In Bercy?
Sorry, I misspoke. It was just RC and Reed forever in SX till Stewart came along...MC was beating everyone by a mile in his day till Emig showed up.
ME686
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4/29/2014 8:10pm
RV "big game hunter". Don't be sellin' the Mac short , he was that good.
kongols
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4/29/2014 8:11pm Edited Date/Time 4/29/2014 8:27pm
rebus wrote:
Look at the number of titles McGrath's [i]competitor's[/i] had when he raced. Then do the same for RC and then again for RV. RV wins hands...
Look at the number of titles McGrath's competitor's had when he raced. Then do the same for RC and then again for RV. RV wins hands down. RV has faced the stiffest competition of them all, IN MY OPINION, because you have titles from Reed, Stewart, and Dungey. That's a lot of titles.
There are no titles for MC competitors because he won 7 times. Dungey and Reed were not better they won when their main competition was out. MC didn`t skip season to give his competitors titles. Therefor on paper he didn`t race champions because he didn`t let anybody be a champion. He raced Stanton, Bradshaw, Huffman, Windham, Emig etc. All previous champs but he didn`t let them win. You can`t say he didn`t have champions. He was a champion.
Crush
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4/29/2014 8:13pm
rebus wrote:
Look at the number of titles McGrath's [i]competitor's[/i] had when he raced. Then do the same for RC and then again for RV. RV wins hands...
Look at the number of titles McGrath's competitor's had when he raced. Then do the same for RC and then again for RV. RV wins hands down. RV has faced the stiffest competition of them all, IN MY OPINION, because you have titles from Reed, Stewart, and Dungey. That's a lot of titles.
12 across those 3 riders. (5 Stew, 4 Dunge, 3 Reed)

MC had more combined titles against him but I agree RV had the hardest comp. His comp have pushed him in an era of tight competitiveness... MC/RC were miles ahead for reasons stated above.
Outsider
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4/29/2014 8:18pm Edited Date/Time 4/29/2014 8:31pm
RV has Roczen also, who beat Herlings for a world title.
shredder22
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4/29/2014 8:33pm
RV's faced the stiffest competition by far. and RV has never lost a national title that he was able to complete the series. I won't go putting RV ahead of RC as the number 1 goat unless RV keeps racing another year or two and gets closer in wins/championships, but RV is definitely the 2nd best rider of all time and he is still going. RC had Kevin Windham and then James Stewart. MC had Emig who was the only guy to win a SX title during MC's reign, but MC wasn't dominant outdoors like RC and RV were/are. If RV keeps racing for another 2-3 years and wins out, I would move him ahead of RC. RV's competition is just crazy. Look at all the ex champs that RV has to beat week in and week out. Not to mention when RC and MC were riding, they could crash and still go ahead and win the race. That doesn't happen anymore. Nowadays there are 7-8 guys on the line every race that can win the whole thing. When RC was racing it was either him, Reed, or Stewart.
shredder22
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4/29/2014 8:36pm
rebus wrote:
Look at the number of titles McGrath's [i]competitor's[/i] had when he raced. Then do the same for RC and then again for RV. RV wins hands...
Look at the number of titles McGrath's competitor's had when he raced. Then do the same for RC and then again for RV. RV wins hands down. RV has faced the stiffest competition of them all, IN MY OPINION, because you have titles from Reed, Stewart, and Dungey. That's a lot of titles.
kongols wrote:
There are no titles for MC competitors because he won 7 times. Dungey and Reed were not better they won when their main competition was out...
There are no titles for MC competitors because he won 7 times. Dungey and Reed were not better they won when their main competition was out. MC didn`t skip season to give his competitors titles. Therefor on paper he didn`t race champions because he didn`t let anybody be a champion. He raced Stanton, Bradshaw, Huffman, Windham, Emig etc. All previous champs but he didn`t let them win. You can`t say he didn`t have champions. He was a champion.
Emig won once against MC.
GuyB
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4/29/2014 8:38pm
I'd say RV.

Also, check out his interview on the homepage. He has a little to say about it.
karnivool
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4/29/2014 8:43pm
stiffest competion? and who had the weakest?

RV

MC

RC
well considering you left JS out of the conversation and he has more sx wins that 2 of these guys while racing both of them(that is without even mentioning his outdoor accomplishments)...I think you get my point...

but go ahead and count championships only...stanton vs bradshaw style...er something...

pointless thread without all the players...

RV was the most human of them all though...and had the most evolved sport to deal with...
Crush
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4/29/2014 8:46pm
karnivool wrote:
well considering you left JS out of the conversation and he has more sx wins that 2 of these guys while racing both of them(that is...
well considering you left JS out of the conversation and he has more sx wins that 2 of these guys while racing both of them(that is without even mentioning his outdoor accomplishments)...I think you get my point...

but go ahead and count championships only...stanton vs bradshaw style...er something...

pointless thread without all the players...

RV was the most human of them all though...and had the most evolved sport to deal with...
RV has 9 titles.

Stewy has 5. That's why he's not in this conversation.
jock
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4/30/2014 2:56am
RV has had the harder time.

The last time there were as many possible winners on any given night was in the early to mid 80's. Hannah, Bailey, O'Show, RJ, Ward, Glover, Barnett, Hansen and Lechien.
PastranaWho
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4/30/2014 5:39am Edited Date/Time 4/30/2014 5:58am
stiffest competion? and who had the weakest?

RV

MC

RC
karnivool wrote:
well considering you left JS out of the conversation and he has more sx wins that 2 of these guys while racing both of them(that is...
well considering you left JS out of the conversation and he has more sx wins that 2 of these guys while racing both of them(that is without even mentioning his outdoor accomplishments)...I think you get my point...

but go ahead and count championships only...stanton vs bradshaw style...er something...

pointless thread without all the players...

RV was the most human of them all though...and had the most evolved sport to deal with...
I dont think james fits in their category. Yes he has the moto wins but not championships and the dominant factor i was thinking of.
PastranaWho
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TDeath21 wrote:
Villopoto has the stiffest competition. Here's why ... He didn't bring anything extra to the table like MC and RC to get an edge on his...
Villopoto has the stiffest competition. Here's why ... He didn't bring anything extra to the table like MC and RC to get an edge on his competition. That's not his fault at all. The sport got to a point in the 06-07 range to where you can't really do anything else to go faster and get an edge on your competition.

MC brought the new style to the table from BMX. He stayed so much lower over the jumps and just made everything look so easy. His championships and race wins show that.

RC was the first to do year round hardcore training, and he dismantled his competition because of that, along with obviously being extremely fast. Remember by this point everyone had caught onto MC's style.

Stewart came along and brought the scrub to the table. This shaved a good second off their laptimes in SX. This gave him a huge advantage. This kind of overlapped with RC's training, but a lot of people were getting the training aspect down and weren't scrubbing yet.

You look at Villopoto and he doesn't have that one major thing to separate him from the competition. Everyone is doing the things MC was, everyone is training as hard as RC did, and everyone is scrubbing like James did. He's dominating in a way nobody has before him. For the sole reason that MC and RC brought the sport to completely new levels, and James added to it with the scrub, the fact that Villopoto is dominating like he is right now is simply amazing.

Are the riders actually better now than they used to be? No I don't think so. I think their competition level is equal in that aspect. It's just that as the sport has evolved and the great riders have forced everyone to do things that was once unheard of, and there's really nowhere else for the sport to evolve to, that makes me think what Villopoto is doing now is more impressive than any previous dominant champion before him.

Also remember Villopoto is doing it with everyone on 4 strokes. This is not a 2 vs 4 argument, but it's widely agreed upon that 4 strokes tighten up the competition.

With all those factors taken into consideration, if we are ranking championships, Villopoto's four in a row has to be the most impressive in my opinion.
Good observation.
zippy895
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4/30/2014 6:06am
THE BETTER YOU ARE, the weaker the competition looks........
MN338
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4/30/2014 6:16am
For arguments sake: McGrath, Villopoto, Carmichael. In that order.
resetjet
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4/30/2014 6:22am
I think the big difference is the speed at which todays riders are going on the tracks and bikes of today. They are up against a glass ceiling. The winner is who can get a good start and ride 20 on the edge. RV is the best at that hands down.

I cannot imagine the level of conditioning it would take to do what they do today.

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