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"new" (to me) bike story

Titan1

C100_imgp2143

Posts: 4712

Joined: 2/3/2010

Location: Lehi, UT USA

7/31/2012 10:36 AM

So, as I mentioned in another thread I just purchased a 09 YZF450, with what I was told had less than 5 hours on it (and it looks awesome, perfectly clean, stock plastics look perfect, inside the airbox looks like new, exhaust looks great-no dirt baked on, just about perfectly clean all the way around).

Anyway, I get it home last week. Change the oil, clean the air filter, check the spokes, check the coolant, check all the bolts...rode it up and down the street a couple times anxious for the weekend to take it out (it always started right up, ran perfect, idled perfect), if just felt like a brand new bike. Yes, I was excited.

So saturday comes, I get all my "honey-do's" done in the morning load up the trailer and my two brothers and I hit the road. We drove about 45 minutes to the riding area...unload the trailer, get our gear on. I hop on my new bike, start it up (1st kick) and I'm sitting on it while its idling just letting it warm up. After about a minute or so, it dies. I thought that was weird, so I pull the kick starter out, and go to kick it over and its frozen solid....the kick starter won't budge! The piston is absolutely frozen solid.

Needless to say I'm pretty ticked off!

Rant Over.

RonSkj

C100_c_b_upside_down_1_1417412973

Posts: 1885

Joined: 6/20/2008

Location: Radiator Springs, CA USA

7/31/2012 10:42 AM

I have a great (smart ass) reply, Something about 2 strokes.. But now's not the time.

That sucks!

FGR01

C100_6367_518576231496873_226911009_n_1388377791

Posts: 1622

Joined: 10/1/2006

Location: AZ, USA

7/31/2012 10:47 AM

Hmmm, lost oil flow/pressure for some reason it seems?

Powerband in every gear !

peelout

C100_100238980_1294767206

Posts: 9947

Joined: 1/6/2011

Location: Ogden, UT USA

7/31/2012 10:48 AM

shitty, man. gotta love 'em

now you'll spend more to re-build it that you probably paid for it

kcco

jeffro503

C100_jeffro_avatar_503_1414606389

Posts: 12187

Joined: 7/22/2007

Location: Portland, OR USA

7/31/2012 10:50 AM

Titan.........are you sure you had enough and the right kind of oil in there? If so.....maybe the pump quit working? Sounds like the oil broke down , or a wrist pin clip or bearing may of come loose? Really sorry to hear that.....BUT......at least it did it on the stand....not while you were riding it! Also.....since it was just idling you may not really have any damage or much anyways. Good luck.........it sounds like nothing to major to be honest. Tear that head off and look at what you got.

And there goes Jeffro. One of God's own prototypes. A super high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

Pimpin' Ho's , Rollin' fatty's......drinkin' beers , beers , beers!! ~ Jay.










pete24

C100_100_3789_1370186289

Posts: 1124

Joined: 10/20/2011

Location: Marlborough, MA USA

7/31/2012 10:55 AM

thats a sign that says, that bike needs a cr500 motor in it

knobby101

C100_tufus_1368759380

Posts: 404

Joined: 7/23/2009

Location: St George, UT USA

7/31/2012 10:56 AM

Titan1 wrote: So, as I mentioned in another thread I just purchased a 09 YZF450, with what I was told had less than 5 hours on it (and it looks awesome, perfectly clean, stock plastics look perfect, inside the airbox looks like new, exhaust looks great-no dirt baked on, just about perfectly clean all the way around).

Anyway, I get it home last week. Change the oil, clean the air filter, check the spokes, check the coolant, check all the bolts...rode it up and down the street a couple times anxious for the weekend to take it out (it always started right up, ran perfect, idled perfect), if just felt like a brand new bike. Yes, I was excited.

So saturday comes, I get all my "honey-do's" done in the morning load up the trailer and my two brothers and I hit the road. We drove about 45 minutes to the riding area...unload the trailer, get our gear on. I hop on my new bike, start it up (1st kick) and I'm sitting on it while its idling just letting it warm up. After about a minute or so, it dies. I thought that was weird, so I pull the kick starter out, and go to kick it over and its frozen solid....the kick starter won't budge! The piston is absolutely frozen solid.

Needless to say I'm pretty ticked off!

Rant Over.

You said you changed the oil... how much oil did you put back in??... what about the oil filter? Are you positive it isnt in the kick starter gears.. Did you put it in gear a rock it back and forth?


My son inlaw raced these bikes in the njational hare and hound series teamed with Russ Pearson, the only time they had a piston failure is when the piston would crack around the wrist pin, i also saw this in Clark Stiles and Jacob Saylers bikes.. other then that i have never seen one stick unless there was no oil... I also have had several of these bikes and ride them in high temp conditions with out alot of air flow the radiators.. I have yet to stick one or blow one up.. your problem has to be in the oil??.

" If I spent as much time as you guys do, tapping away at your semen stained keyboards... I would have all the answers too!

PaleBlue

C100_i_phone_pictures_038

Posts: 1595

Joined: 6/16/2009

Location: Essex, GBR

7/31/2012 11:10 AM

The only positive thing I can say is at least you don't have the expense of rebuilding the 'top end'. Either way I'm sorry to hear it, no fun for you....

E.A.S.S.C. - as fun as it gets.............

Titan1

C100_imgp2143

Posts: 4712

Joined: 2/3/2010

Location: Lehi, UT USA

7/31/2012 11:24 AM

Titan1 wrote: So, as I mentioned in another thread I just purchased a 09 YZF450, with what I was told had less than 5 hours on it (and it looks awesome, perfectly clean, stock plastics look perfect, inside the airbox looks like new, exhaust looks great-no dirt baked on, just about perfectly clean all the way around).

Anyway, I get it home last week. Change the oil, clean the air filter, check the spokes, check the coolant, check all the bolts...rode it up and down the street a couple times anxious for the weekend to take it out (it always started right up, ran perfect, idled perfect), if just felt like a brand new bike. Yes, I was excited.

So saturday comes, I get all my "honey-do's" done in the morning load up the trailer and my two brothers and I hit the road. We drove about 45 minutes to the riding area...unload the trailer, get our gear on. I hop on my new bike, start it up (1st kick) and I'm sitting on it while its idling just letting it warm up. After about a minute or so, it dies. I thought that was weird, so I pull the kick starter out, and go to kick it over and its frozen solid....the kick starter won't budge! The piston is absolutely frozen solid.

Needless to say I'm pretty ticked off!

Rant Over.

knobby101 wrote: You said you changed the oil... how much oil did you put back in??... what about the oil filter? Are you positive it isnt in the kick starter gears.. Did you put it in gear a rock it back and forth?


My son inlaw raced these bikes in the njational hare and hound series teamed with Russ Pearson, the only time they had a piston failure is when the piston would crack around the wrist pin, i also saw this in Clark Stiles and Jacob Saylers bikes.. other then that i have never seen one stick unless there was no oil... I also have had several of these bikes and ride them in high temp conditions with out alot of air flow the radiators.. I have yet to stick one or blow one up.. your problem has to be in the oil??.

I changed the oil filter and the oil, and put in just over 1 quart of oil (1.06 I think is what the manual calls for). I used the yamaha brand oil (not sure of the weight off the top of my head, but it was what the dealer gave to me to use, so I HOPE its the right oil!).

I am fairly positive it isn't the kick starter gears, but I suppose it could be. The reason I say that is because I put it in 5th gear, and I couldn't even get the back wheel to turn at all (it rolls around fine when its in neutral or when the clutch is in). I assumed that if it was the kick starter, I could have push started it, right? Or is my logic off on that? (I'm far from mechanical....)

My thinking is that it's the oil pump. I'll have it all torn down-by a professional, I don't trust myself on these things-and let ya'll know what comes of it.

I will live and learn from it...but it sure ruined my weekend (and I'm still ticked off about it), and will likely put a rather significant dent in my checking account...

I'm just not sure if I should blame it on 4 strokes, or yamaha's??? (This is the first yamaha I've ever owned...)

newmann

C100_614585238_1207253287

Posts: 14355

Joined: 4/1/2008

Location: USA

7/31/2012 11:31 AM

Bummer. The 450 Yamaha has been known to be pretty damn reliable.

7GP

C100_pic1_1403838909

Posts: 266

Joined: 11/10/2009

Location: Northern, CA USA

7/31/2012 11:40 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/31/2012 11:42 AM

That sucks. I would blame it on bad luck rather than 4 strokes or Yamahas. That is a pretty rare occurrence. I haven't wrenched on a 09 YZ450F, but on some bikes you can put the oil filter in backwards if you aren't thinking about it. This blocks oil flow, might be worth checking out.

newmann

C100_614585238_1207253287

Posts: 14355

Joined: 4/1/2008

Location: USA

7/31/2012 11:47 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/31/2012 11:48 AM

You mentioned you left it on the stand idling to warm up. It wasn't puking coolant when it died was it? My YZ250F would overheat quick if it wasn't in motion.

ADynes

C100_sunset_vmx

Posts: 111

Joined: 5/26/2011

Location: IN, USA

7/31/2012 12:06 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/31/2012 12:11 PM

Have you opened it up yet? I had the cam chain skip a couple teeth on the exhaust cam on my 06 kx while idling before practice @ Redbud. It felt locked up just like you describe, because the auto-decompression pin was no longer opening exhaust valves slightly on compression stroke. Maybe you'll get lucky and that's all it'll be? I ditched the auto cam chain tensioner, made a manual one, and haven't had a problem since.

Pull the spark plug and see if it will turn over. If it does, you probably just need to re-time the cams.

reded

C100_bailey_gainesville85_001

Posts: 2172

Joined: 3/26/2011

Location: KS, USA

7/31/2012 12:07 PM

If it's anything like the ATV engine, the filter will not go in backwards and mine has never boiled over. I've only used it in the dunes and in the summer it's hot as hell out in the sand.

mx510

C100_gandme

Posts: 867

Joined: 2/26/2011

Location: Puyallup, WA USA

7/31/2012 12:09 PM

7GP wrote: That sucks. I would blame it on bad luck rather than 4 strokes or Yamahas. That is a pretty rare occurrence. I haven't wrenched on a 09 YZ450F, but on some bikes you can put the oil filter in backwards if you aren't thinking about it. This blocks oil flow, might be worth checking out.

I have seen this before, and it ended in the exact same scenario that you have. The only difference is what I saw was a KX450f. Bummer dude, typically the YZ's are the toughest most reliable bikes out there.

Go Hawks!

DrSweden

C100_tfs_1367879460

Posts: 6370

Joined: 8/30/2008

Location: Stockholm, SWE

7/31/2012 1:29 PM

Oil filter facing the wrong direction? Oil stops flowing emediatly...

M-M

C100_downlsdsdoad_1411770238

Posts: 1792

Joined: 11/20/2008

Location: GBR

7/31/2012 1:35 PM

DrSweden wrote: Oil filter facing the wrong direction? Oil stops flowing emediatly...

Was just going to say that.... a friend of mine did that

Titan1

C100_imgp2143

Posts: 4712

Joined: 2/3/2010

Location: Lehi, UT USA

7/31/2012 2:11 PM

If my memory serves (and I'm at work and can't check), but it seems like its down right impossible to put the filter in backwards....one side was completely flat if I remember right (I've only done it one time on the bike, so I'm not 100% certain). So I don't think its that (If it is...then, I'm a moron).

I did pull the spark plug when I got home, and it still wouldn't budge.

It wasn't puking coolant when it stalled, it had only idled for maybe 60 seconds.

I hope its just something simple...like the cam chain, or kick starter gears or something. But I'm not thinking that's the case.

Thanks for the condolences and suggestions. I appreciate it.

2strokebarrett

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Posts: 1613

Joined: 8/31/2010

Location: Cymru, GBR

7/31/2012 2:35 PM

It happened to me on a 06 crf250.

The thing shit itself after 1 lap and destroyed the engine. £1000 repair bill, ruined my weekend and my wallet.

Hope it's not too bad for you.

I regret my username, I chose it before I realized that the pro 2 stroke crowd on vital mx are completely and utterly insane


The facts contradict my opinion, but my opinion is the only thing that matters

mjskier

C100_fu

Posts: 1575

Joined: 4/1/2008

Location: CO, USA

7/31/2012 2:53 PM

If that were an issue with the kick starter gear, you should be able to put it in gear and make the wheel turn, especially if you have the spark plug off.

man who runs in front of bus gets tired. man who runs behind bus gets exhausted

7GP

C100_pic1_1403838909

Posts: 266

Joined: 11/10/2009

Location: Northern, CA USA

7/31/2012 3:01 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/31/2012 3:02 PM

It might be worth it to pull the side covers off before pulling the top end. My friend had an 06 or 07 YZ450F where the bolts came loose on the stator, it cocked sideways, snagged on the flywheel and bound up badly. You couldn't roll it forwards or backwards and the kick starter was stuck. Seemed like it was seized. He did some research and apparently he isn't alone in that happening to YZ450F owners. I also had a KX250F that had the flywheel nut back off and stick against the side cover giving similar symptoms. Both of these problems occurred and pretty much idle rpms. Either way pulling the ignition cover off might be worth the trouble.

Titan1

C100_imgp2143

Posts: 4712

Joined: 2/3/2010

Location: Lehi, UT USA

7/31/2012 4:05 PM

mjskier wrote: If that were an issue with the kick starter gear, you should be able to put it in gear and make the wheel turn, especially if you have the spark plug off.

That's a good point...I pulled the spark plug and tried to move the kick starter (with no luck), but I didn't try and turn the rear wheel while it was in gear. I'll try that tonight...

Titan1

C100_imgp2143

Posts: 4712

Joined: 2/3/2010

Location: Lehi, UT USA

7/31/2012 4:06 PM

7GP wrote: It might be worth it to pull the side covers off before pulling the top end. My friend had an 06 or 07 YZ450F where the bolts came loose on the stator, it cocked sideways, snagged on the flywheel and bound up badly. You couldn't roll it forwards or backwards and the kick starter was stuck. Seemed like it was seized. He did some research and apparently he isn't alone in that happening to YZ450F owners. I also had a KX250F that had the flywheel nut back off and stick against the side cover giving similar symptoms. Both of these problems occurred and pretty much idle rpms. Either way pulling the ignition cover off might be worth the trouble.

I'll look at that as well.

Although, the bike will roll when in neutral or when the clutch is in. Is that what you meant? Or did you mean it wouldn't roll at all?

mx836

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Posts: 2264

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Location: ;, BFA

7/31/2012 4:56 PM

Titan1 wrote: I changed the oil filter and the oil, and put in just over 1 quart of oil (1.06 I think is what the manual calls for). I used the yamaha brand oil (not sure of the weight off the top of my head, but it was what the dealer gave to me to use, so I HOPE its the right oil!).

I am fairly positive it isn't the kick starter gears, but I suppose it could be. The reason I say that is because I put it in 5th gear, and I couldn't even get the back wheel to turn at all (it rolls around fine when its in neutral or when the clutch is in). I assumed that if it was the kick starter, I could have push started it, right? Or is my logic off on that? (I'm far from mechanical....)

My thinking is that it's the oil pump. I'll have it all torn down-by a professional, I don't trust myself on these things-and let ya'll know what comes of it.

I will live and learn from it...but it sure ruined my weekend (and I'm still ticked off about it), and will likely put a rather significant dent in my checking account...

I'm just not sure if I should blame it on 4 strokes, or yamaha's??? (This is the first yamaha I've ever owned...)

Blame it on 4 strokes and Yamaha. They both suck. It really is sad what 4 strokes are doing to moto. After racing all my life, I can't afford it due to crazy bike prices and expensive rebuilds/repairs. All during what could be the best moto years of my life of course...my twenties. Wad up in a battle and someone smashes your exhaust? There's another grand. Can only afford to do that so many times.

slipdog

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Posts: 4057

Joined: 7/25/2009

Location: Nor Cal, CA USA

7/31/2012 5:39 PM

mx836 wrote: Blame it on 4 strokes and Yamaha. They both suck. It really is sad what 4 strokes are doing to moto. After racing all my life, I can't afford it due to crazy bike prices and expensive rebuilds/repairs. All during what could be the best moto years of my life of course...my twenties. Wad up in a battle and someone smashes your exhaust? There's another grand. Can only afford to do that so many times.

I have a 2008 CRF450 and I've only put gas, oil, tires and REGULAR maintenance into it and it runs like a champ...

As a matter of fact, I had no problems with my '05 CRF250, my '07 KX250f, my '08 yZ450 or my '09 YZ250f.









*Your results may vary*

"Since people needed them shrimps for shrimp cocktails and BBQ's and all, and we were the only boat left standing... Bubba Gump Shrimp is what they got!"

7GP

C100_pic1_1403838909

Posts: 266

Joined: 11/10/2009

Location: Northern, CA USA

7/31/2012 5:51 PM

7GP wrote: It might be worth it to pull the side covers off before pulling the top end. My friend had an 06 or 07 YZ450F where the bolts came loose on the stator, it cocked sideways, snagged on the flywheel and bound up badly. You couldn't roll it forwards or backwards and the kick starter was stuck. Seemed like it was seized. He did some research and apparently he isn't alone in that happening to YZ450F owners. I also had a KX250F that had the flywheel nut back off and stick against the side cover giving similar symptoms. Both of these problems occurred and pretty much idle rpms. Either way pulling the ignition cover off might be worth the trouble.

Titan1 wrote: I'll look at that as well.

Although, the bike will roll when in neutral or when the clutch is in. Is that what you meant? Or did you mean it wouldn't roll at all?

Ahh yeah I meant you couldn't roll it forwards or backwards in gear. Even grabbing the rear wheel and trying to turn it over in 5th wouldn't budge the piston. His Yamaha would roll forward and back with the clutch in or in neutral.

From your description it doesn't sound like it seized, especially if you didn't see it spitting coolant. More like something came loose and bound up. Hope you get it sorted with the least $$ spent possible.

mx836

C100_843278837_img_8057

Posts: 2264

Joined: 4/2/2008

Location: ;, BFA

7/31/2012 5:54 PM

slipdog wrote: I have a 2008 CRF450 and I've only put gas, oil, tires and REGULAR maintenance into it and it runs like a champ...

As a matter of fact, I had no problems with my '05 CRF250, my '07 KX250f, my '08 yZ450 or my '09 YZ250f.









*Your results may vary*

My results do vary actually. When you get a new one every year, they can usually make it through without blowing. Like stated, I personally can't afford that, just like so many others. Kind of my point here guy, in case you missed it. How hard you ride might have something to do with that as well. When I was 12, my bikes lasted a long time and when I'm 50, they probably will too. I'm also a professional mechanic by trade, so you can leave that one in your back pocket too.

Titan1

C100_imgp2143

Posts: 4712

Joined: 2/3/2010

Location: Lehi, UT USA

7/31/2012 6:56 PM

7GP wrote: It might be worth it to pull the side covers off before pulling the top end. My friend had an 06 or 07 YZ450F where the bolts came loose on the stator, it cocked sideways, snagged on the flywheel and bound up badly. You couldn't roll it forwards or backwards and the kick starter was stuck. Seemed like it was seized. He did some research and apparently he isn't alone in that happening to YZ450F owners. I also had a KX250F that had the flywheel nut back off and stick against the side cover giving similar symptoms. Both of these problems occurred and pretty much idle rpms. Either way pulling the ignition cover off might be worth the trouble.

Titan1 wrote: I'll look at that as well.

Although, the bike will roll when in neutral or when the clutch is in. Is that what you meant? Or did you mean it wouldn't roll at all?

7GP wrote: Ahh yeah I meant you couldn't roll it forwards or backwards in gear. Even grabbing the rear wheel and trying to turn it over in 5th wouldn't budge the piston. His Yamaha would roll forward and back with the clutch in or in neutral.

From your description it doesn't sound like it seized, especially if you didn't see it spitting coolant. More like something came loose and bound up. Hope you get it sorted with the least $$ spent possible.

That sounds like exactly what my bike is doing. I'm going to look into that for sure. Thanks for the suggestion.

I just can't see the bike seizing up, and yes, no coolant...You just got my hopes up. Hopefully they won't be dashed into a thousand dollars, I mean pieces....

machine

C100_canard_profile_pic

Posts: 4172

Joined: 1/5/2011

Location: Wake Forest, NC USA

7/31/2012 7:12 PM

Could be a valve that broke. Any smoke come out? Did you hear a rattling cam chain off idle when you rode it down the street? How many hours since rebuild, cam chain replacement/valve replacement? No hour meter on it?

Vital MX, the hangout for old, bitter and disgruntled 2-stroke fans

Titan1

C100_imgp2143

Posts: 4712

Joined: 2/3/2010

Location: Lehi, UT USA

8/1/2012 9:46 AM

machine wrote: Could be a valve that broke. Any smoke come out? Did you hear a rattling cam chain off idle when you rode it down the street? How many hours since rebuild, cam chain replacement/valve replacement? No hour meter on it?

No smoke. No rattling off idle or when I rode it down the street. The bike "apparently" only has 5 hours on it (looking closer, I'm not sure that's true though), so no rebuild. And no hour meter on it.

It was running perfectly....and it simply died....no funny noises, no overheating, no smoke...it just died and wouldn't turn over after that....
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