ktm 250 sx ?s

bsharkey
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Edited Date/Time 7/26/2014 12:12pm
a good friend just bought a new 14 and wants to know what fuel /oil ratio you guys are running on these bikes. what oil are you guys using too. thanks
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mxb2
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7/25/2014 6:07pm
what does his manual say?
JA946
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7/25/2014 6:10pm
mxb2 wrote:
what does his manual say?
Something weird like 60:1.

Tell him to run what he's comfortable running, and don't use pump gas.
MxKing809
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7/25/2014 6:12pm Edited Date/Time 7/25/2014 6:13pm
bsharkey wrote:
a good friend just bought a new 14 and wants to know what fuel /oil ratio you guys are running on these bikes. what oil are...
a good friend just bought a new 14 and wants to know what fuel /oil ratio you guys are running on these bikes. what oil are you guys using too. thanks
I run Motul 800 in my '14 at 35:1 and have had great luck with it. Power valve is always clean. I did some motor work at 10 hours of run time and the head looked like it had never seen a spark.

I usually just run 93 octane from a busy gas station..... But I'll splash some race hooch in every now and then
MX690
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7/25/2014 6:14pm
I have a 2013 250sx and run 40:1 and use Motul 800

The Shop

Suns_PSD
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7/25/2014 6:22pm
32:1 with Amsoil Dominator. Bottom ends last the lifetime of the bike.
The catch is that running the Lectron carb, the bike uses way less fuel, therefore it's getting way less oil too.
RbR
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7/25/2014 6:38pm
Motorex 2t synthetic 60:1
bsharkey
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7/25/2014 6:48pm
RbR wrote:
Motorex 2t synthetic 60:1
we ran our ktm 65 at this ratio. I didn't know if that applied to the big bikes though. I know a lot of guys on here have thses bikes and he wants to go ride when he picks it up tomorrow at my house
jeffro503
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7/25/2014 6:51pm
On my RM 250 I will be running 927 @ 40:1. It's what was ran in it before I bought it and it's exactly what I had planned to run anyways. I use to like to run Redline.....but in order to run that oil clean , you have to run it lean , and I didn't care for that.
MotoX85
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7/25/2014 7:11pm
How many articles have to be published by just about every engine builder on the planet that says the more oil equals more power until people start realizing that they do not make concentrated oil. (ala the old MC1 bel ray days)

If you are running leaner than the 32:1 - 40:1 oil range, you are losing power, have less piston seal and have greater potential for engine failure.

The only exception to this is some of the smaller engines need a leaner mixture. We ran our KTM 65s at 44:1, anything richer and the powervalve would not work well (we ran Maxima 927)
bvm111
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7/25/2014 7:12pm
Can't go wrong with a high quality FULL synthetic such as Motul 800, motorex, or I have had great success with Maxima K2. I have always run 40:1 but some swear by 32:1!

927 smells awesome... But have fun getting the carbon out of the power valve!
jeffro503
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7/25/2014 7:14pm
MotoX85 wrote:
How many articles have to be published by just about every engine builder on the planet that says the more oil equals more power until people...
How many articles have to be published by just about every engine builder on the planet that says the more oil equals more power until people start realizing that they do not make concentrated oil. (ala the old MC1 bel ray days)

If you are running leaner than the 32:1 - 40:1 oil range, you are losing power, have less piston seal and have greater potential for engine failure.

The only exception to this is some of the smaller engines need a leaner mixture. We ran our KTM 65s at 44:1, anything richer and the powervalve would not work well (we ran Maxima 927)
Brother.....that depends on what oil you are using. Redline oil for instance used to insist that you ran something like 80:1 - 100:1.......crazy I know. I remember saying " Screw that "......and was running at 50:1 Redline....and I was fouling plugs because it seemed to rich. FWIW though....I think Redline is an exception to the rule.
Motoxtombo
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7/25/2014 7:19pm
I have a 2013 and I run Maxima Super-M at 50:1 with LL 100 Av Gas,I've been running that oil mixture and fuel for about 30 years.
MotoX85
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7/25/2014 7:22pm
MotoX85 wrote:
How many articles have to be published by just about every engine builder on the planet that says the more oil equals more power until people...
How many articles have to be published by just about every engine builder on the planet that says the more oil equals more power until people start realizing that they do not make concentrated oil. (ala the old MC1 bel ray days)

If you are running leaner than the 32:1 - 40:1 oil range, you are losing power, have less piston seal and have greater potential for engine failure.

The only exception to this is some of the smaller engines need a leaner mixture. We ran our KTM 65s at 44:1, anything richer and the powervalve would not work well (we ran Maxima 927)
jeffro503 wrote:
Brother.....that depends on what oil you are using. Redline oil for instance used to insist that you ran something like 80:1 - 100:1.......crazy I know. I...
Brother.....that depends on what oil you are using. Redline oil for instance used to insist that you ran something like 80:1 - 100:1.......crazy I know. I remember saying " Screw that "......and was running at 50:1 Redline....and I was fouling plugs because it seemed to rich. FWIW though....I think Redline is an exception to the rule.
I am no oil expert and have never used redline so we will call it a draw. But remember the old MC1 days. When that oil first came out it use to say concentrate on the bottle and said to run it 100:1. As soon as you did, you blew your motor.

BVM - I have always used 927 and trust me, after blowing 2 cranks by switching to Yamaha 2r, I will never switch again. But I have never had "carbon" on my powervalves. I have carbon on the top of my pistons and usually black splooge on the PVs but it has never been a problem.

What I run 927 for is next time you do a top end, look down at the crank journals, with 927 they will be covered in oil. This is the only oil I have tried that leaves this much oil on the crank and for this reason, I have never lost a crank using 927.
bvm111
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7/25/2014 7:51pm
MotoX85 wrote:
How many articles have to be published by just about every engine builder on the planet that says the more oil equals more power until people...
How many articles have to be published by just about every engine builder on the planet that says the more oil equals more power until people start realizing that they do not make concentrated oil. (ala the old MC1 bel ray days)

If you are running leaner than the 32:1 - 40:1 oil range, you are losing power, have less piston seal and have greater potential for engine failure.

The only exception to this is some of the smaller engines need a leaner mixture. We ran our KTM 65s at 44:1, anything richer and the powervalve would not work well (we ran Maxima 927)
jeffro503 wrote:
Brother.....that depends on what oil you are using. Redline oil for instance used to insist that you ran something like 80:1 - 100:1.......crazy I know. I...
Brother.....that depends on what oil you are using. Redline oil for instance used to insist that you ran something like 80:1 - 100:1.......crazy I know. I remember saying " Screw that "......and was running at 50:1 Redline....and I was fouling plugs because it seemed to rich. FWIW though....I think Redline is an exception to the rule.
MotoX85 wrote:
I am no oil expert and have never used redline so we will call it a draw. But remember the old MC1 days. When that oil...
I am no oil expert and have never used redline so we will call it a draw. But remember the old MC1 days. When that oil first came out it use to say concentrate on the bottle and said to run it 100:1. As soon as you did, you blew your motor.

BVM - I have always used 927 and trust me, after blowing 2 cranks by switching to Yamaha 2r, I will never switch again. But I have never had "carbon" on my powervalves. I have carbon on the top of my pistons and usually black splooge on the PVs but it has never been a problem.

What I run 927 for is next time you do a top end, look down at the crank journals, with 927 they will be covered in oil. This is the only oil I have tried that leaves this much oil on the crank and for this reason, I have never lost a crank using 927.
I get it... What oil and ratio to use is about as great a thread topic as the neck brace topic.

I always ran 927 in my 85-98 CR 125's and 250's until I switched to Kawasaki in 1999 and it just gummed it up and crusted the sub port valves so bad I scrapped for hours to clean them. I switched to K2 and never had that issue again, and now after 12 years off the bike I started riding again with my 2006 KX250 this year I started running Mutol, just pulled the cylinder off and the power valve is spotless and free without any noticeable carbon build up and there seems to be plenty of oil in the bottom end to me. I'm not trying to convince anyone one way is better or another but I have been very satisfied with the full synthetics... I do miss the castor bean smell from the exhaust with C12 there is nothing better!









bsharkey
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7/25/2014 7:52pm
ive always run anywhere from 32.1 to 40.1 and used maxima K2 on out yzs and my rm250 and had great luck right now i run 32.1 plus 1 to1 racegas so my sons race bikes and mine can run the same gas. my suzki 250 runs awesome on it. the newer ktms they do suggest higher ratios. we ran 55.1 or 60.1 on our 65s and i=we never had any problems and they were the newer models. i just don't know f the big bikes are the same, that's why im asking
cs69camaro
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7/25/2014 8:01pm
I run 50:1 with Klotz Dominator and VP 110. It runs good and smells great!!!!
nornevrder
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7/25/2014 8:38pm Edited Date/Time 7/25/2014 8:39pm
2013 250sx. 50:1 motorex , pump gas, 175 main, Suzuki needle , stock pilot and slide. Vet A rider, no spooge , no problems , coffee colored electrode
JA946
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7/25/2014 9:40pm
MotoX85 wrote:
How many articles have to be published by just about every engine builder on the planet that says the more oil equals more power until people...
How many articles have to be published by just about every engine builder on the planet that says the more oil equals more power until people start realizing that they do not make concentrated oil. (ala the old MC1 bel ray days)

If you are running leaner than the 32:1 - 40:1 oil range, you are losing power, have less piston seal and have greater potential for engine failure.

The only exception to this is some of the smaller engines need a leaner mixture. We ran our KTM 65s at 44:1, anything richer and the powervalve would not work well (we ran Maxima 927)
There's a reason the Kart guys run like 15:1....more oil for them means more power.
7/26/2014 4:19am
BelRay H1R @32:1 on my 2t. I find this oil burns clean on top and wet below. I gladly pay $30 a bottle for its performance . I wish it smelled racey though but maybe it's not about the smell , unlike some oils that smell like strawberries and bubble gum.
JA946
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7/26/2014 6:38am
Beaudzz118 wrote:
BelRay H1R @32:1 on my 2t. I find this oil burns clean on top and wet below. I gladly pay $30 a bottle for its performance...
BelRay H1R @32:1 on my 2t. I find this oil burns clean on top and wet below. I gladly pay $30 a bottle for its performance . I wish it smelled racey though but maybe it's not about the smell , unlike some oils that smell like strawberries and bubble gum.
I'm convinced my pump 100 and super m smells like blueberries...someone told me it smells like old school oil...

Who knows.
7/26/2014 9:28am
Some people think about it the wrong way. Lean and rich refer to the fuel and air, we are talking about fuel/air ratios, not oil/air ratios. MORE oil in the fuel is LEANER to the combustion process because you are cutting back on the amount of fuel in a given unit of mixture (because of the larger % of oil in a given unit)...i.e., 32:1 is LEANER than 50:1 --- if you have more oil (32:1) per unit of gas, that means the ratio of gas to air is LEANER than the 50:1.

That's why different oils have a different ratio recommendation, some oils are concentrated more and need less of it to achieve the same fuel air ratio without changing physical jetting specs.

Example...on a cold night when the two strokes are running crisper and snappier compared to a hot day, some guys would go "man i better run a bit more oil so i don't burn the motor up" when in fact, that's wrong. The cold air is denser (more oxygen) so you have more oxygen available per unit of fuel, adding more oil only makes the mixture leaner yet. If you have MORE oxygen available, you need to have MORE fuel available to mix with that oxygen, so you need LESS oil per unit of fuel.

Seems confusing, but it's not really, you just have to think about how much fuel is available to a given amount of incoming air (oxygen).

Also, in a perfect world, none of the oil would burn. Most of it doesn't actually. What happens is when the mixture of oil and fuel pass through the carb, the temperature of the mixture is very cool in relation to the inside of the cylinder. When that cool mixture enters the engine via the intake ports, it "sees" the hot environment, the fuel is much lighter (vaporized) while the oil is heavy/thick, so the oil drops (separates) out of the suspension and sticks to the sides of the cylinder and crank parts, providing lubrication. Some of it burns of course as it is exposed to the combustion environment. Most of it is deposited on internal engine parts, such as hot power valves and expansion chambers, where it forms carbon deposits. So ideally, a concentrated oil can be run at higher mixture ratios (50:1 or higher even) so that there are less deposits on the motor which means less maintenance, as opposed to a 32:1 mixture which dumps more physical oil amounts in the engine.
MxKing809
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7/26/2014 9:32am
Or you could leave your ratio the same and change the jets...... Blink
7/26/2014 9:34am Edited Date/Time 7/26/2014 9:35am
MxKing809 wrote:
Or you could leave your ratio the same and change the jets...... Blink
YES. Exactly.

But for a backyard fix on a cold night, as a teenager when I didn't have jetting parts available, we would just tweak our mixtures via premix to get closer hahah.
JA946
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7/26/2014 9:50am
thephoenix wrote:
YES. Exactly. But for a backyard fix on a cold night, as a teenager when I didn't have jetting parts available, we would just tweak our...
YES. Exactly.

But for a backyard fix on a cold night, as a teenager when I didn't have jetting parts available, we would just tweak our mixtures via premix to get closer hahah.
Why people don't own a full range of jets blows my mind. They're like $3 each. Once I figured out what the honda liked ball park wise - I ordered 10 jets in that range, and 4 needles.
MxKing809
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7/26/2014 9:59am
thephoenix wrote:
YES. Exactly. But for a backyard fix on a cold night, as a teenager when I didn't have jetting parts available, we would just tweak our...
YES. Exactly.

But for a backyard fix on a cold night, as a teenager when I didn't have jetting parts available, we would just tweak our mixtures via premix to get closer hahah.
JA946 wrote:
Why people don't own a full range of jets blows my mind. They're like $3 each. Once I figured out what the honda liked ball park...
Why people don't own a full range of jets blows my mind. They're like $3 each. Once I figured out what the honda liked ball park wise - I ordered 10 jets in that range, and 4 needles.



GrinningGrinningGrinning
JA946
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7/26/2014 10:07am
Where'd you get the case? Do they have one that carries more needles?
MxKing809
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7/26/2014 11:55am Edited Date/Time 7/26/2014 12:05pm
JA946 wrote:
Where'd you get the case? Do they have one that carries more needles?
I know a guy who knew a guy at Factory Honda....


lol, when my dad bought me my first race bike ('97 CR80) it came with the bike!! I've been working out of it ever since.

It says 'Graydon Proline' on the lid.

Here is the case with jets.... Kinda pricy.... http://m.ebay.com.au/itm?itemId=170494670315
markit
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7/26/2014 12:05pm
Suns_PSD wrote:
32:1 with Amsoil Dominator. Bottom ends last the lifetime of the bike. The catch is that running the Lectron carb, the bike uses way less fuel...
32:1 with Amsoil Dominator. Bottom ends last the lifetime of the bike.
The catch is that running the Lectron carb, the bike uses way less fuel, therefore it's getting way less oil too.
I use to run 32:1 in my old air cooled bikes back in the 70s and 80s it's a wast of oil in the water cooled bikes. I was reading this thread and saying to myself what other negatives would there be other than wasting oil? .
MxKing809
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7/26/2014 12:12pm
Suns_PSD wrote:
32:1 with Amsoil Dominator. Bottom ends last the lifetime of the bike. The catch is that running the Lectron carb, the bike uses way less fuel...
32:1 with Amsoil Dominator. Bottom ends last the lifetime of the bike.
The catch is that running the Lectron carb, the bike uses way less fuel, therefore it's getting way less oil too.
markit wrote:
I use to run 32:1 in my old air cooled bikes back in the 70s and 80s it's a wast of oil in the water cooled...
I use to run 32:1 in my old air cooled bikes back in the 70s and 80s it's a wast of oil in the water cooled bikes. I was reading this thread and saying to myself what other negatives would there be other than wasting oil? .
It's not wasting oil if your bike is solid all the time!! Cool

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