bring real factory bikes back...... please

Julian
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Julian
Edited Date/Time 1/22/2016 9:03pm
just noticed the classic steel post..... 2002 Honda, looks just about like a 2016 Honda, if you ask me.

15 years and nothing......

Back when I raced in the mid 70's, if you had a 1-year old bike, it looked like you were riding an antique.

The development was hiper back then and things were exciting, it was FUN to just look at photos of the TRUE factory bikes, I remember the MXA photos of the 1975 Fire Engine Red Factory Hondas, now those were factory bikes.

Today, zzzzzzzzzzzzz......... nothing......... year after year......... boring............ zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I say, get rid of the ban on true factory bikes......... let development proceed and bring back the good old days......

Sure the best riders will get to ride the prototype hand made wonders, so what...........
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bish153
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bish153 1/21/2016 2:07pm
1/21/2016 2:07pm
Did you think all that up on your own?
Roscoe33
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Roscoe33 1/21/2016 2:08pm
1/21/2016 2:08pm
at honda it's called BNG

BOLD, NEW, GRAPHICS !

Lucifa.
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Lucifa. 1/21/2016 2:10pm
1/21/2016 2:10pm
You want the gaps increase between riders? It would make the racing boring. Have the riders use their skills to win the race. Closer racing is better racing.
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seth505 1/21/2016 2:10pm
1/21/2016 2:10pm
Not sure the economic climate supports "going wild with development". Not like they are selling a billion bikes every year.

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bsm121
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bsm121 1/21/2016 2:13pm
1/21/2016 2:13pm
Law of diminishing returns.
Technology is not immune.
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GrapeApe 1/21/2016 2:14pm
1/21/2016 2:14pm
You know, there is no production rule in the GP's.

There is only so much you can do with a motorcycle. That being said, if you think the '02 and '16 bikes look the same you have vision problems.
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MR. X 1/21/2016 2:20pm
1/21/2016 2:20pm
Hell ya ! Dump more money into R and D ! Lets see if we can get bikes to cost 20 grand to cover the cost.
Julian
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Julian 1/21/2016 2:20pm
1/21/2016 2:20pm
I guess I can understand the comments of some of the young guys on this forum, but from my point of view, those were exciting days back then..... It seemed to be a whole other level of action - those factory bikes that were so different than anything anyone else could obtain - it created another level of action - there were the "regular guys" on their bikes that were based on bikes bought from the showroom floor and then there were those "factory bikes" with those "factory riders". today a "factory ride" rides a bike that looks like one on the showroom floor.....!
Julian
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Julian 1/21/2016 2:23pm
1/21/2016 2:23pm
MR. X wrote:
Hell ya ! Dump more money into R and D ! Lets see if we can get bikes to cost 20 grand to cover the cost.
The 77 Hondas that resulted from the 75 factory Hondas did not cost that much more than the 74 Hondas, but were much, much better
Julian
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Julian 1/21/2016 2:29pm
1/21/2016 2:29pm
GrapeApe wrote:
You know, there is no production rule in the GP's. There is only so much you can do with a motorcycle. That being said, if you...
You know, there is no production rule in the GP's.

There is only so much you can do with a motorcycle. That being said, if you think the '02 and '16 bikes look the same you have vision problems.
yea, I have often thought of that,,,,, but it has to do with economies of scale I think. if the works bikes are banned in the USA it takes about 70% of the wind out of the sails -------- It is just not worth it to build "real" works bikes for the GP's only, it must be a global project, it seems
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Julian 1/21/2016 2:36pm
1/21/2016 2:36pm
newmann wrote:
http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Old-School-Moto,22/78-RC500-engine-cleanup,1290312 few close up pics [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/11/12/111050/s1200_IMG_20151112_192006_491.jpg[/img]
http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Old-School-Moto,22/78-RC500-engine-cleanu…

few close up pics

just look at that Honda. That bike was introduced in Italy (Karsmakers) in 1976 and it was a total revolution, Honda had basically nothing before that bike hit the ground.... it was a true works bike and it lead to many, many great innovations that helped to make MX what it is today....... anybody argue that point ?? And Karsmakers himself told Honda to bring the swingarm pivot up close to the countershaft sprocket so as not to have so much chain slack..... How many mx riders have benefited from just that one "works" bike development,,,,, I ask you ????? I know my chain on my 74 Elsinore used to come off all the time...........
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moto455va 1/21/2016 2:37pm
1/21/2016 2:37pm
bsm121 wrote:
Law of diminishing returns.
Technology is not immune.
Exactly my thoughts. You can only make a bike so fast before it becomes insanely expensive or dangerous.

There was a lot of advancement on bikes happening in the 80's but now not so much. They are so dang good, how much more advanced can they get?

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zehn
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zehn 1/21/2016 2:37pm
1/21/2016 2:37pm Edited Date/Time 1/21/2016 2:39pm
You can't fix stupid...

I was going to type out a long response as to why manus shouldn't be allowed to make fully works bikes, why the development seemed so much "hiper" (hyper? hipper? I'm lost on this one) back in the 70s, and the prevailing economic and other factors that allowed for $200,000+ works bikes to be feasible and warranted.

Then I realized OP is just living in the past. Get with the times
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mattyhamz2 1/21/2016 2:38pm
1/21/2016 2:38pm
I have to respectfully disagree with this one. I say make the guys race production bikes(no motor work, no factory brakes, no special sensors or anything like that) with suspension done, but anything they do to the suspension has to be available to the public. Close the gap between the privateers and the factory teams. Let the actual riding separate the guys, not the bikes/parts. All of the new production bikes are badass. Can you really keep making these bikes that much better?
Reefer Sutherland 1/21/2016 2:42pm
1/21/2016 2:42pm
The point is moot because the tech wouldn't trickle down to production bikes, due to the cost of production. But I think we are going to see ride by wire pretty soon.
Julian
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Julian 1/21/2016 2:47pm
1/21/2016 2:47pm
gosh, things seem to have changed in my good old USA. most of what I am reading on this thread indicates the current crop of mxers are starting to get a bit socialistic and wanting a "fair playing field" for mx competition today whereas back in the 70/80's everyone was excited about the progress and development of mx.

ho hum....... guess that's the way it is...... guess mx bikes have reached the end of development --- time to just stop and ride what we have..........

Don't tell Elon Musk about that concept.........
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Project 2501 1/21/2016 2:50pm
1/21/2016 2:50pm
What about 93 - 95 (or 96) where McGrath ran essentially the same bike. new isn't always progress. Ask HRC how it worked for their MotoGP program this year.
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moto455va 1/21/2016 3:05pm
1/21/2016 3:05pm
I still dont see what youre getting at

provide us with some examples of the new tech you think should be on a bike? You cant just sit there and bitch about how bikes arent changing much anymore and then give no suggestions.

What should factory bikes have? Ride by wire? Numberplate mounted laser beams? Anti-gravity devices? What?
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ML512 1/21/2016 3:16pm
1/21/2016 3:16pm
Julian wrote:
gosh, things seem to have changed in my good old USA. most of what I am reading on this thread indicates the current crop of mxers...
gosh, things seem to have changed in my good old USA. most of what I am reading on this thread indicates the current crop of mxers are starting to get a bit socialistic and wanting a "fair playing field" for mx competition today whereas back in the 70/80's everyone was excited about the progress and development of mx.

ho hum....... guess that's the way it is...... guess mx bikes have reached the end of development --- time to just stop and ride what we have..........

Don't tell Elon Musk about that concept.........
You know... ehh, forget about it... you never listen anyhow.
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Steve125 1/21/2016 3:34pm
1/21/2016 3:34pm Edited Date/Time 1/21/2016 3:37pm
After seeing ML's review of Seely's bike, I don't think they need to get outrageously better every year. I think if there were true ground up factory works bikes out there you'd mostly see composite materials in more areas trying to lighten up the bikes.. but then you have that minimum weight rule keeping that from happening.

But I hear ya about the excitement of seeing truly wild works bikes back in the day.. I use to look forward to MXA's coverage of the Hangtown opener in the late 70's early 80's when they'd unveil all the new works bikes.
These days we argue about who's fender colors and sponsor graphics look the best.
practicetrackhero 1/21/2016 3:41pm
1/21/2016 3:41pm
Not to mention... the more they change from year to year the harder it could be for riders to get comfortable on the machine. If they constantly are trying the latest and greatest thing that came out of R and D department every week I doubt guys would be as fast or push the limits as hard.
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MaxPower 1/21/2016 3:46pm
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Lucifa. wrote:
You want the gaps increase between riders? It would make the racing boring. Have the riders use their skills to win the race. Closer racing is...
You want the gaps increase between riders? It would make the racing boring. Have the riders use their skills to win the race. Closer racing is better racing.
Maybe everyone should race the same stock bike and make the track as easy as possible. Racing would be really exciting then
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h&m_cycle 1/21/2016 3:52pm
1/21/2016 3:52pm Edited Date/Time 1/21/2016 3:52pm
Julian wrote:
just noticed the classic steel post..... 2002 Honda, looks just about like a 2016 Honda, if you ask me. 15 years and nothing...... Back when I...
just noticed the classic steel post..... 2002 Honda, looks just about like a 2016 Honda, if you ask me.

15 years and nothing......

Back when I raced in the mid 70's, if you had a 1-year old bike, it looked like you were riding an antique.

The development was hiper back then and things were exciting, it was FUN to just look at photos of the TRUE factory bikes, I remember the MXA photos of the 1975 Fire Engine Red Factory Hondas, now those were factory bikes.

Today, zzzzzzzzzzzzz......... nothing......... year after year......... boring............ zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I say, get rid of the ban on true factory bikes......... let development proceed and bring back the good old days......

Sure the best riders will get to ride the prototype hand made wonders, so what...........
Man... I can't believe how many tracks there were in the 70's,,, a new bike every year... good times...
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aeffertz 1/21/2016 4:01pm
1/21/2016 4:01pm
Julian wrote:
gosh, things seem to have changed in my good old USA. most of what I am reading on this thread indicates the current crop of mxers...
gosh, things seem to have changed in my good old USA. most of what I am reading on this thread indicates the current crop of mxers are starting to get a bit socialistic and wanting a "fair playing field" for mx competition today whereas back in the 70/80's everyone was excited about the progress and development of mx.

ho hum....... guess that's the way it is...... guess mx bikes have reached the end of development --- time to just stop and ride what we have..........

Don't tell Elon Musk about that concept.........
You're delusional, mate.

It's like you haven't looked at or read about any of the bikes coming out.

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