banning of two strokes

11/26/2014 5:43am
I dont know why people care so much. Unless you can qualify for a national or SX, which 99% of us here cant, it doesnt effect us, what so ever. Just like gays. People get all worked up over something that doesnt involve them, what so ever. 250 2t are legal in the amateurs, so who cares what the pros run? Just go out and have fun on your dirt bike, dammit! Thats why we all started, to have fun!
mx965
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11/26/2014 6:23am
MxKing809 wrote:
Won't change the pro gate here in the states. It is crazy to go to a local race in Michigan though. 125B/C is the biggest class...
Won't change the pro gate here in the states. It is crazy to go to a local race in Michigan though. 125B/C is the biggest class, and 250B is half 2-stroke..... The times they are a changin'......
I race 250B on a yz250. I would say it depends on the day. Sometimes there does seem to be alot of 2 strokes but others i am the only one. Just depends id say. Although i think 2 strokes have made a huge leap in the last 2 years.
Darryl916
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11/26/2014 6:48am
I dont know why people care so much. Unless you can qualify for a national or SX, which 99% of us here cant, it doesnt effect...
I dont know why people care so much. Unless you can qualify for a national or SX, which 99% of us here cant, it doesnt effect us, what so ever. Just like gays. People get all worked up over something that doesnt involve them, what so ever. 250 2t are legal in the amateurs, so who cares what the pros run? Just go out and have fun on your dirt bike, dammit! Thats why we all started, to have fun!
Great post. I too don't get why it matters to us.
loftyair
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riverside, CA US
11/26/2014 7:31am
Cc vs. Cc these days and the 4-strokers get all pissy. How about letting the 2-strokes be twice as big, that way they 'weigh' the same. Make all classes 'open' to whatever floats your boat. There are 15 yr.olds that are 6'2", 200#. There are 45 yr.olds. that are 5'6", 135#. I don't get the displacement class thing anymore.

The Shop

Micahdogg
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11/26/2014 8:05am
The reason why there is "US vs. Them" is because the 2 stroke is the superior power plant. Fact. It is way more efficient and way less complicated. Fact.

If the entire MX scene was four stroke, and someone had "invented" the two stroke in 1997, the entire gate would have changed overnight. You would have to be braindead to not realize the advantage. Instead, it took a slow 6+ year progression -AND- lopsided rules -AND- the manufactures basically refusing to sell or race 2 strokes in order for the field to change.]

That's probably why you see the chip on peoples shoulders about the subject. The 2 stroke just makes more sense. Valves never needed to be adjusted, total rebuilds cost way less, you could buy an entire pipe/silencer combo for $300. Its not like people had problems getting around the track on a two stroke and thus we needed a tractor of a thumper to show up.
Micahdogg
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11/26/2014 8:07am
I dont know why people care so much. Unless you can qualify for a national or SX, which 99% of us here cant, it doesnt effect...
I dont know why people care so much. Unless you can qualify for a national or SX, which 99% of us here cant, it doesnt effect us, what so ever. Just like gays. People get all worked up over something that doesnt involve them, what so ever. 250 2t are legal in the amateurs, so who cares what the pros run? Just go out and have fun on your dirt bike, dammit! Thats why we all started, to have fun!
Excuse me, but not having a option of a 2014 RM250, CR250R, or KX250 does affect me. It directly affects me as I had cash in hand in 2008 awaiting a new generation RM250 to buy.
11/26/2014 8:58am
Are two stroke fans on this site less intelligent than 4-stroke fans because they think they banned them, when they never actually did?

I'm fishing.
Micahdogg
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11/26/2014 9:10am
Are people who want to discuss real racing less intelligent if they keep posting in two stroke threads that they are tired of the community arguing about again and again?

Pro fisher.
Micahdogg
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11/26/2014 9:21am
After a string of RM's, Suzuki directly affected my life and pushed me over to KTM.

I paid full MSRP ($6600) for a 2011 KTM250SX when Yamaha was giving away brand new 2008 YZ450F's for $4100 out the door. I'll go to TM, Beta, Gas Gas, anyone. I'll rebuild a dinosaur before being told to get with the times.
reded
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11/26/2014 9:44am
I'd buy two 2012( hell, 2008's for that matter)YZ250s at $4100. Anybody got a line on those?
FlaNard
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11/26/2014 9:51am
I dont know why people care so much. Unless you can qualify for a national or SX, which 99% of us here cant, it doesnt effect...
I dont know why people care so much. Unless you can qualify for a national or SX, which 99% of us here cant, it doesnt effect us, what so ever. Just like gays. People get all worked up over something that doesnt involve them, what so ever. 250 2t are legal in the amateurs, so who cares what the pros run? Just go out and have fun on your dirt bike, dammit! Thats why we all started, to have fun!
It matters because some of us would like to ride a two stroke that doesn't have ancient technology or one that is 10 years old against thumpers with a shit ton of new development going on (in the color of our choosing). Some of us would like bikes inexpensive enough to allow the gates at local races to actually be full again. But I gave up a long time ago on that one. I'm sad for kids who wont get to see how a local race weekend used to look. We can all just continue to enjoy mostly empty tracks and guys on 450's who have to put both feet down around corners but still manage to make the 100 foot double they have no business jumping in the first place because that is whats left of this sport. You get to see helicopters up close a lot more these days even at the basic tracks we have out here. But like I said, I gave up. If this is what the sport has turned into then you can keep it.
resetjet
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11/26/2014 10:18am
IN 08 they way overproduced.


By a KTM, enough said.
newmann
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11/26/2014 11:29am
I dont know why people care so much. Unless you can qualify for a national or SX, which 99% of us here cant, it doesnt effect...
I dont know why people care so much. Unless you can qualify for a national or SX, which 99% of us here cant, it doesnt effect us, what so ever. Just like gays. People get all worked up over something that doesnt involve them, what so ever. 250 2t are legal in the amateurs, so who cares what the pros run? Just go out and have fun on your dirt bike, dammit! Thats why we all started, to have fun!
Darryl916 wrote:
Great post. I too don't get why it matters to us.
Maybe because some of us here really like motocross and have for a long time, not just the johnny come lately types. MX here in the US has pretty much been 2 strokes since the beginning and most of us liked it just fine that way. Four strokes coming along with their double displacement advantage and then fuel rules to even worsen the handicap don't settle too well. Killing off the 125 class really didn't settle well with many of us. In fact, that was one of the absolute most retarded things anyone could have ever done to sport. And it was done by fucktard idiots at the AMA who had probably never ridden or raced a 125.

Compare it to football, there's a sport that is pretty popular here in the US. Maybe we will just replace the ball with a soccer ball. That way, the sport known here as football, and the sport known around the rest of the world as football will have something in common. Should be fine, and I have no problem with that....Whistling

Baseball? Kind of dangerous. In the name of safety we need to replace the ball with a wiffle ball. If it just saves one life then it will be worth it! Think about the children.

So forgive me and all those like me for thinking that the sport lost something good with the switch to four strokes. It's kind of funny, because just a few short years ago I got hounded pretty hard for being "the only one" who gave a shit about it. But in life as in business I've found out that I'm never the only one. It was all supposed to die down and the sheep were all supposed to line up. But the tide has been changing, only held back by the few who run the sport at the upper levels and some OEM's. Going to the local tracks around Houston and seeing the number of two strokes out on the track is a good sign. Seems many others from all around the country are seeing the same trend. All this EPA and CARB bullshit? Seems a decade and a half later that you can still buy and ride a 2 stroke in The Peoples Republic of California. Hmmmmm.

Flame on.Smile
philG
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11/26/2014 11:46am
newmann wrote:
Maybe because some of us here really like motocross and have for a long time, not just the johnny come lately types. MX here in the...
Maybe because some of us here really like motocross and have for a long time, not just the johnny come lately types. MX here in the US has pretty much been 2 strokes since the beginning and most of us liked it just fine that way. Four strokes coming along with their double displacement advantage and then fuel rules to even worsen the handicap don't settle too well. Killing off the 125 class really didn't settle well with many of us. In fact, that was one of the absolute most retarded things anyone could have ever done to sport. And it was done by fucktard idiots at the AMA who had probably never ridden or raced a 125.

Compare it to football, there's a sport that is pretty popular here in the US. Maybe we will just replace the ball with a soccer ball. That way, the sport known here as football, and the sport known around the rest of the world as football will have something in common. Should be fine, and I have no problem with that....Whistling

Baseball? Kind of dangerous. In the name of safety we need to replace the ball with a wiffle ball. If it just saves one life then it will be worth it! Think about the children.

So forgive me and all those like me for thinking that the sport lost something good with the switch to four strokes. It's kind of funny, because just a few short years ago I got hounded pretty hard for being "the only one" who gave a shit about it. But in life as in business I've found out that I'm never the only one. It was all supposed to die down and the sheep were all supposed to line up. But the tide has been changing, only held back by the few who run the sport at the upper levels and some OEM's. Going to the local tracks around Houston and seeing the number of two strokes out on the track is a good sign. Seems many others from all around the country are seeing the same trend. All this EPA and CARB bullshit? Seems a decade and a half later that you can still buy and ride a 2 stroke in The Peoples Republic of California. Hmmmmm.

Flame on.Smile
Killing the 125 class was dumb, over here in Euro land , there seems to be a good deal of resistance to it , i think the french wont let their kids jump from 85 to 250 F , and dont allow the 150f to race, and the EMX125 series is ultra competitive , for the top tiddler riders, but ultimately they end up on a 250f..

The EMX300 series was a good idea and i think we will see more riders, and more better riders, and thats only going to encourage guys to run them.

The Masters series over here will run a 2 stroke class again, i think they are up to 30 or so registered riders, so that will be cool too.

A lot of Vet guys are running Twinshock and Evo now , they have good series that runs full grids , guys would rather drop 3k on an evo that will always be worth 3k , than 7k on a 4 banger that will be worth 4k in no time
11/26/2014 11:47am Edited Date/Time 11/26/2014 11:51am
Gringoe wrote:
Than how are they making 250fs the same hp as a stock 250 2 stroke?
There are these things in a 4 stroke called valves and cams which allow you to precisely control intake and exhaust flows to achieve better combustion. 2 strokes do not acheive the same level of combustion because of the limitation of fixed ports and a reliance on pressure waves from the expansion chamber to compress the mixture prior to exhaust port closure.

Simply put, 4 strokes are better at controlling internal combustion. Their downside is added complexity and cost. How those factors balance out is different for everyone.
11/26/2014 4:23pm Edited Date/Time 11/26/2014 4:27pm
I dont know why people care so much. Unless you can qualify for a national or SX, which 99% of us here cant, it doesnt effect...
I dont know why people care so much. Unless you can qualify for a national or SX, which 99% of us here cant, it doesnt effect us, what so ever. Just like gays. People get all worked up over something that doesnt involve them, what so ever. 250 2t are legal in the amateurs, so who cares what the pros run? Just go out and have fun on your dirt bike, dammit! Thats why we all started, to have fun!
Darryl916 wrote:
Great post. I too don't get why it matters to us.
newmann wrote:
Maybe because some of us here really like motocross and have for a long time, not just the johnny come lately types. MX here in the...
Maybe because some of us here really like motocross and have for a long time, not just the johnny come lately types. MX here in the US has pretty much been 2 strokes since the beginning and most of us liked it just fine that way. Four strokes coming along with their double displacement advantage and then fuel rules to even worsen the handicap don't settle too well. Killing off the 125 class really didn't settle well with many of us. In fact, that was one of the absolute most retarded things anyone could have ever done to sport. And it was done by fucktard idiots at the AMA who had probably never ridden or raced a 125.

Compare it to football, there's a sport that is pretty popular here in the US. Maybe we will just replace the ball with a soccer ball. That way, the sport known here as football, and the sport known around the rest of the world as football will have something in common. Should be fine, and I have no problem with that....Whistling

Baseball? Kind of dangerous. In the name of safety we need to replace the ball with a wiffle ball. If it just saves one life then it will be worth it! Think about the children.

So forgive me and all those like me for thinking that the sport lost something good with the switch to four strokes. It's kind of funny, because just a few short years ago I got hounded pretty hard for being "the only one" who gave a shit about it. But in life as in business I've found out that I'm never the only one. It was all supposed to die down and the sheep were all supposed to line up. But the tide has been changing, only held back by the few who run the sport at the upper levels and some OEM's. Going to the local tracks around Houston and seeing the number of two strokes out on the track is a good sign. Seems many others from all around the country are seeing the same trend. All this EPA and CARB bullshit? Seems a decade and a half later that you can still buy and ride a 2 stroke in The Peoples Republic of California. Hmmmmm.

Flame on.Smile
Imagine changing the fundamentals of tackling... Wait, they did that.
That's a better comparison than the football to the soccer ball seeing how a 4 stroke and a 2 stroke are still MX bikes.


You're not the only old person here by the way and not everyone who still likes racing is a "Johnny come lately."
Racing is just fine without two strokes and it wasn't banned at the local level, the place most here ride, so it shouldn't be as big a deal as people like you make it out to be.

Have a good one.
IceMan446
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11/26/2014 5:05pm
newmann wrote:
Maybe because some of us here really like motocross and have for a long time, not just the johnny come lately types. MX here in the...
Maybe because some of us here really like motocross and have for a long time, not just the johnny come lately types. MX here in the US has pretty much been 2 strokes since the beginning and most of us liked it just fine that way. Four strokes coming along with their double displacement advantage and then fuel rules to even worsen the handicap don't settle too well. Killing off the 125 class really didn't settle well with many of us. In fact, that was one of the absolute most retarded things anyone could have ever done to sport. And it was done by fucktard idiots at the AMA who had probably never ridden or raced a 125.

Compare it to football, there's a sport that is pretty popular here in the US. Maybe we will just replace the ball with a soccer ball. That way, the sport known here as football, and the sport known around the rest of the world as football will have something in common. Should be fine, and I have no problem with that....Whistling

Baseball? Kind of dangerous. In the name of safety we need to replace the ball with a wiffle ball. If it just saves one life then it will be worth it! Think about the children.

So forgive me and all those like me for thinking that the sport lost something good with the switch to four strokes. It's kind of funny, because just a few short years ago I got hounded pretty hard for being "the only one" who gave a shit about it. But in life as in business I've found out that I'm never the only one. It was all supposed to die down and the sheep were all supposed to line up. But the tide has been changing, only held back by the few who run the sport at the upper levels and some OEM's. Going to the local tracks around Houston and seeing the number of two strokes out on the track is a good sign. Seems many others from all around the country are seeing the same trend. All this EPA and CARB bullshit? Seems a decade and a half later that you can still buy and ride a 2 stroke in The Peoples Republic of California. Hmmmmm.

Flame on.Smile
Blame the consumer.

They were the ones going out and buying the four stroke in droves.

If they stuck with the 2T, there wouldnt be a problem.
endurox
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11/26/2014 5:13pm
DI 2 strokes will take the wool out of the 4 stroke sheep syndrome. Rotax makes a 600c DI snowmobile engine putting out close to 120 HP. So a 300cc DI engine could make 60HP and be EPA legal.Might even be legal in Mexifornia. So yes the DI would add maybe 2 pounds to a current e start KTM or Husky 2 stroke. But since the mileage would go up 30% the reduced fuel needed would net a lighter bike for off roading.
malachi177
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11/26/2014 5:42pm Edited Date/Time 11/26/2014 5:44pm
IceMan446 wrote:
Blame the consumer. They were the ones going out and buying the four stroke in droves. If they stuck with the 2T, there wouldnt be a...
Blame the consumer.

They were the ones going out and buying the four stroke in droves.

If they stuck with the 2T, there wouldnt be a problem.
No, the unfair rules made the thumpers the bike to have. No serious racer wants to be at a huge disadvantage. Hence the killing of the 125 class. Who in their right mind would want to race one against a pack of 250F's??? It was NOT the consumer, it's what the powers that be (manufacturers pushing 4 strokes to make serious money on parts, and the AMA and other sanctioning bodies) forced upon us.
BobPA
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11/26/2014 5:52pm
Micahdogg wrote:
The reason why there is "US vs. Them" is because the 2 stroke is the superior power plant. Fact. It is way more efficient and way...
The reason why there is "US vs. Them" is because the 2 stroke is the superior power plant. Fact. It is way more efficient and way less complicated. Fact.

If the entire MX scene was four stroke, and someone had "invented" the two stroke in 1997, the entire gate would have changed overnight. You would have to be braindead to not realize the advantage. Instead, it took a slow 6+ year progression -AND- lopsided rules -AND- the manufactures basically refusing to sell or race 2 strokes in order for the field to change.]

That's probably why you see the chip on peoples shoulders about the subject. The 2 stroke just makes more sense. Valves never needed to be adjusted, total rebuilds cost way less, you could buy an entire pipe/silencer combo for $300. Its not like people had problems getting around the track on a two stroke and thus we needed a tractor of a thumper to show up.
I can ride faster and more consistent easier on 4 stroke. Fact. Two strokes aren't for everyone. Fact. Ride whatever you want, who fuck cares.


IceMan446
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11/26/2014 6:18pm
malachi177 wrote:
No, the unfair rules made the thumpers the bike to have. No serious racer wants to be at a huge disadvantage. Hence the killing of the...
No, the unfair rules made the thumpers the bike to have. No serious racer wants to be at a huge disadvantage. Hence the killing of the 125 class. Who in their right mind would want to race one against a pack of 250F's??? It was NOT the consumer, it's what the powers that be (manufacturers pushing 4 strokes to make serious money on parts, and the AMA and other sanctioning bodies) forced upon us.
Wrong.

More bikes are sold to people who DON'T race then to those that do.

So the consumer, outside of the racers, have been just as big a part of the downfall of the two stroke as the manufactures.

But they want to keep up with their buddies and thus have chose to purchase a bike that is easier to ride.


motokiwi
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Fantasy
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11/26/2014 6:33pm
Its funny that an 07 RMZ 450 is now worth less than an 07 RM250.

Thats because an 07 RMZ450 needs $$ motor work to keep it going, and the squid whos buying an 07 is NOT going to do that work.
That 07 rmz450 will be prematurely scrapped compared to 2strokes of the past.

We can debate all day if it was the consumer or the manufacturer that lead the charge to 4 strokes.
(very similar to the debate about the bad quality of mainstream media nowdays - the media companies claim they are giving the consumer what they want, the consumer claims the media are leading the charge for their own benefit).

Anyway back on topic.

One thing is for sure: the manufacturers will sell more parts for the fart boxes, and more bikes overall as their second hand lifespan is shorter than the 2t.
LoudLove
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11/26/2014 6:46pm
In the early/mid 2000s every Japanese manufacturer released both two and four stroke MX bikes. And the public overwhelmingly chose the 4-banger, while two strokes sat gathering dust in the corner.

Allowing 250T to race against 250Fs would have had a nominal impact on sales. 4 strokes' smooth power delivery made two-stokes nearly barbaric, and nearly every magazine praised the 4 stroke as the second coming of MX.

The OEMs spend millions assessing the market for untapped potential sales. If two stokes were a viable product, the manufacturers would respond to that demand. And while KTM and other European companies may still find revenues and profits from two stroke technology, those number pale against their Japanese counterparts.

Bottom line: the consumer had his chance to save two strokes. And he didn't.
Micahdogg
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11/26/2014 7:13pm Edited Date/Time 11/26/2014 7:15pm
LoudLove wrote:
In the early/mid 2000s every Japanese manufacturer released both two and four stroke MX bikes. And the public overwhelmingly chose the 4-banger, while two strokes sat...
In the early/mid 2000s every Japanese manufacturer released both two and four stroke MX bikes. And the public overwhelmingly chose the 4-banger, while two strokes sat gathering dust in the corner.

Allowing 250T to race against 250Fs would have had a nominal impact on sales. 4 strokes' smooth power delivery made two-stokes nearly barbaric, and nearly every magazine praised the 4 stroke as the second coming of MX.

The OEMs spend millions assessing the market for untapped potential sales. If two stokes were a viable product, the manufacturers would respond to that demand. And while KTM and other European companies may still find revenues and profits from two stroke technology, those number pale against their Japanese counterparts.

Bottom line: the consumer had his chance to save two strokes. And he didn't.
The public is always willing to try the next big thing. Lots of next big things showed up in that time when all the smokers were getting bng. Hold on though. The public isnt done choosing.

Ktm is killing the japs in sales and over 25% of everything the sold last year was a two stroke. Yeah they are finding some revenue alright. Something the japs are not doing.
reded
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11/26/2014 7:19pm Edited Date/Time 11/26/2014 7:22pm
LoudLove wrote:
In the early/mid 2000s every Japanese manufacturer released both two and four stroke MX bikes. And the public overwhelmingly chose the 4-banger, while two strokes sat...
In the early/mid 2000s every Japanese manufacturer released both two and four stroke MX bikes. And the public overwhelmingly chose the 4-banger, while two strokes sat gathering dust in the corner.

Allowing 250T to race against 250Fs would have had a nominal impact on sales. 4 strokes' smooth power delivery made two-stokes nearly barbaric, and nearly every magazine praised the 4 stroke as the second coming of MX.

The OEMs spend millions assessing the market for untapped potential sales. If two stokes were a viable product, the manufacturers would respond to that demand. And while KTM and other European companies may still find revenues and profits from two stroke technology, those number pale against their Japanese counterparts.

Bottom line: the consumer had his chance to save two strokes. And he didn't.
You also have to consider every dumb kid who watches SX in the winter and then rushes out to his nearest dealer to finance the latest and greatest even though he doesn't know shit about motorcycles and will only own it for 6mos then lose interest. They're added into the sales numbers and even though I'm in a small market I still see 5 or 6 of those cases every year. Imagine how many cases there are across the entire US alone.
David Murphy
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11/26/2014 8:59pm
newmann wrote:
Maybe because some of us here really like motocross and have for a long time, not just the johnny come lately types. MX here in the...
Maybe because some of us here really like motocross and have for a long time, not just the johnny come lately types. MX here in the US has pretty much been 2 strokes since the beginning and most of us liked it just fine that way. Four strokes coming along with their double displacement advantage and then fuel rules to even worsen the handicap don't settle too well. Killing off the 125 class really didn't settle well with many of us. In fact, that was one of the absolute most retarded things anyone could have ever done to sport. And it was done by fucktard idiots at the AMA who had probably never ridden or raced a 125.

Compare it to football, there's a sport that is pretty popular here in the US. Maybe we will just replace the ball with a soccer ball. That way, the sport known here as football, and the sport known around the rest of the world as football will have something in common. Should be fine, and I have no problem with that....Whistling

Baseball? Kind of dangerous. In the name of safety we need to replace the ball with a wiffle ball. If it just saves one life then it will be worth it! Think about the children.

So forgive me and all those like me for thinking that the sport lost something good with the switch to four strokes. It's kind of funny, because just a few short years ago I got hounded pretty hard for being "the only one" who gave a shit about it. But in life as in business I've found out that I'm never the only one. It was all supposed to die down and the sheep were all supposed to line up. But the tide has been changing, only held back by the few who run the sport at the upper levels and some OEM's. Going to the local tracks around Houston and seeing the number of two strokes out on the track is a good sign. Seems many others from all around the country are seeing the same trend. All this EPA and CARB bullshit? Seems a decade and a half later that you can still buy and ride a 2 stroke in The Peoples Republic of California. Hmmmmm.

Flame on.Smile
IceMan446 wrote:
Blame the consumer. They were the ones going out and buying the four stroke in droves. If they stuck with the 2T, there wouldnt be a...
Blame the consumer.

They were the ones going out and buying the four stroke in droves.

If they stuck with the 2T, there wouldnt be a problem.
Yeah, well that's part of the reason why we want to see 2 strokes back in Pro racing. The consumer a sheep. They see RV winning on a 450, then they want a 450. If they see RV winning on a 2 stroke??? We would see more 2 stroke development from all manufacturers and in the end we all win with choice.
endurox
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11/26/2014 9:01pm
LoudLove wrote:
In the early/mid 2000s every Japanese manufacturer released both two and four stroke MX bikes. And the public overwhelmingly chose the 4-banger, while two strokes sat...
In the early/mid 2000s every Japanese manufacturer released both two and four stroke MX bikes. And the public overwhelmingly chose the 4-banger, while two strokes sat gathering dust in the corner.

Allowing 250T to race against 250Fs would have had a nominal impact on sales. 4 strokes' smooth power delivery made two-stokes nearly barbaric, and nearly every magazine praised the 4 stroke as the second coming of MX.

The OEMs spend millions assessing the market for untapped potential sales. If two stokes were a viable product, the manufacturers would respond to that demand. And while KTM and other European companies may still find revenues and profits from two stroke technology, those number pale against their Japanese counterparts.

Bottom line: the consumer had his chance to save two strokes. And he didn't.
reded wrote:
You also have to consider every dumb kid who watches SX in the winter and then rushes out to his nearest dealer to finance the latest...
You also have to consider every dumb kid who watches SX in the winter and then rushes out to his nearest dealer to finance the latest and greatest even though he doesn't know shit about motorcycles and will only own it for 6mos then lose interest. They're added into the sales numbers and even though I'm in a small market I still see 5 or 6 of those cases every year. Imagine how many cases there are across the entire US alone.
And the young kid has to have a 450 with a aftermarket pipe to get more power. Plus he will spend hundreds on graphics instead of 100's on suspension.
hammertime
Posts
1583
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
K Town CA
11/26/2014 9:36pm
Up here after Benoit killing Vince with his trick KTM 250 2 stroke, i'm sure smart top and leading edge told the CMRC they better ban trick two-stroke motors or they would either not come back or protest the series!.... Next thing you know, a fucked up dumb rule comes in that all but kills any hope of ever seen a two-stroke year again!!

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