banning of two strokes

ToddWitten83
Edited Date/Time 12/15/2014 9:09am
I'm from Australia. Down here, the 250 2t is allowed to run with the 250 4t. Before this rule was included Australia was seeing thinning start lines in is pro class. Do you think bringing back the two stroke into the racing circle will revamp up starting line and bring more people to the sport? Motorcycling Australia has already brought in the rule of no modifications to the 250 2t from the intake port to the exhaust port (meaning no porting, high comp piston/ head) with the exclusion of base gaskets, just to please the big five. So what do you guys think, give the privateers a go, or leave it to the big boys??
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MxKing809
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MxKing809 11/24/2014 6:35pm
11/24/2014 6:35pm
Won't change the pro gate here in the states. It is crazy to go to a local race in Michigan though. 125B/C is the biggest class, and 250B is half 2-stroke..... The times they are a changin'......
ToddWitten83 11/24/2014 6:38pm
11/24/2014 6:38pm
maybe Australia is just different. if i went race 250f pro id be on a two banger. mostly because of how cheap it is
peelout
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peelout 11/24/2014 6:45pm
11/24/2014 6:45pm
MxKing809 wrote:
Won't change the pro gate here in the states. It is crazy to go to a local race in Michigan though. 125B/C is the biggest class...
Won't change the pro gate here in the states. It is crazy to go to a local race in Michigan though. 125B/C is the biggest class, and 250B is half 2-stroke..... The times they are a changin'......
The proof is in the pudding
Samdanny576 11/24/2014 6:50pm
11/24/2014 6:50pm
Nobody banned two-strokes at the lower levels.
I never stopped riding one, and at most tracks it gave me another class in the two-stroke only class to ride. Disposable income is the only thing that will bring the sport back.

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Brad460
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Brad460 11/24/2014 7:15pm
11/24/2014 7:15pm
MxKing809 wrote:
Won't change the pro gate here in the states. It is crazy to go to a local race in Michigan though. 125B/C is the biggest class...
Won't change the pro gate here in the states. It is crazy to go to a local race in Michigan though. 125B/C is the biggest class, and 250B is half 2-stroke..... The times they are a changin'......
I call bullshit on half 250B being 2stroke..but it's your story you can tell it however you want...

Link your facts/proof..
MxKing809
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MxKing809 11/24/2014 7:23pm
11/24/2014 7:23pm
MxKing809 wrote:
Won't change the pro gate here in the states. It is crazy to go to a local race in Michigan though. 125B/C is the biggest class...
Won't change the pro gate here in the states. It is crazy to go to a local race in Michigan though. 125B/C is the biggest class, and 250B is half 2-stroke..... The times they are a changin'......
Brad460 wrote:
I call bullshit on half 250B being 2stroke..but it's your story you can tell it however you want...

Link your facts/proof..
I haven't been to the track much this year, so I don't have a large sample size..... But of the 8-10 guys in 250B the last race I was at half were two strokes. So forgive me if I don't have the entry sheets on demand for you....... Jeezus...
aFACEdismembered 11/24/2014 7:39pm
11/24/2014 7:39pm
Samdanny576 wrote:
Nobody banned two-strokes at the lower levels. I never stopped riding one, and at most tracks it gave me another class in the two-stroke only class...
Nobody banned two-strokes at the lower levels.
I never stopped riding one, and at most tracks it gave me another class in the two-stroke only class to ride. Disposable income is the only thing that will bring the sport back.
People would still have disposable income if 4 stroke technology didn't skyrocket MSRP prices. Maybe inflation can account for the extra 4 grand you pay now, what do I know. Huh
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Excaliburbmx 11/24/2014 7:45pm
11/24/2014 7:45pm
MxKing809 wrote:
Won't change the pro gate here in the states. It is crazy to go to a local race in Michigan though. 125B/C is the biggest class...
Won't change the pro gate here in the states. It is crazy to go to a local race in Michigan though. 125B/C is the biggest class, and 250B is half 2-stroke..... The times they are a changin'......
Brad460 wrote:
I call bullshit on half 250B being 2stroke..but it's your story you can tell it however you want...

Link your facts/proof..
MxKing809 wrote:
I haven't been to the track much this year, so I don't have a large sample size..... But of the 8-10 guys in 250B the last...
I haven't been to the track much this year, so I don't have a large sample size..... But of the 8-10 guys in 250B the last race I was at half were two strokes. So forgive me if I don't have the entry sheets on demand for you....... Jeezus...
Same here in Indiana almost 50 percent 2 strokes in class.
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scott_nz 11/24/2014 7:52pm
11/24/2014 7:52pm
Samdanny576 wrote:
Nobody banned two-strokes at the lower levels. I never stopped riding one, and at most tracks it gave me another class in the two-stroke only class...
Nobody banned two-strokes at the lower levels.
I never stopped riding one, and at most tracks it gave me another class in the two-stroke only class to ride. Disposable income is the only thing that will bring the sport back.
aFACEdismembered wrote:
People would still have disposable income if 4 stroke technology didn't skyrocket MSRP prices. Maybe inflation can account for the extra 4 grand you pay now...
People would still have disposable income if 4 stroke technology didn't skyrocket MSRP prices. Maybe inflation can account for the extra 4 grand you pay now, what do I know. Huh
the devaluing US dollar is what sky rocketed motorcycle prices in the USA, they are in the middle of the range they have been in the last 10 years here in NZ and AU,
jeffro503
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jeffro503 11/24/2014 9:41pm
11/24/2014 9:41pm
The big 4 had NO problem putting their 250F's up against the 125cc 2 strokes....and calling it fair!

Now....CC vs CC......and the big 4 pitch a fit! If the 4 stroke is so superior , then why do they need such a large displacement advantage to be competitive?

Like I said....it was all fine and dandy when they got to run against the 125 2 strokes. I'm beginning to become a bigger 2 stroke fan every day.
David Murphy
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David Murphy 11/24/2014 10:23pm
11/24/2014 10:23pm
I say ban the fuckn things! They pollute the planet don't ya know. Wink
Samdanny576 11/24/2014 11:06pm
11/24/2014 11:06pm
Samdanny576 wrote:
Nobody banned two-strokes at the lower levels. I never stopped riding one, and at most tracks it gave me another class in the two-stroke only class...
Nobody banned two-strokes at the lower levels.
I never stopped riding one, and at most tracks it gave me another class in the two-stroke only class to ride. Disposable income is the only thing that will bring the sport back.
aFACEdismembered wrote:
People would still have disposable income if 4 stroke technology didn't skyrocket MSRP prices. Maybe inflation can account for the extra 4 grand you pay now...
People would still have disposable income if 4 stroke technology didn't skyrocket MSRP prices. Maybe inflation can account for the extra 4 grand you pay now, what do I know. Huh
Get an inflation calculator out, figure in a plus/minus on a cost of mantienence increase that could have occurred at the factory and other such costs and get back to me if you feel you have something one way or the other.
I'm not sure why people feel I need to be doing things like this for them lately at work, home, etc, but I don't really care to.
Lippy111
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Lippy111 11/25/2014 12:44am
11/25/2014 12:44am
jeffro503 wrote:
The big 4 had NO problem putting their 250F's up against the 125cc 2 strokes....and calling it fair! Now....CC vs CC......and the big 4 pitch a...
The big 4 had NO problem putting their 250F's up against the 125cc 2 strokes....and calling it fair!

Now....CC vs CC......and the big 4 pitch a fit! If the 4 stroke is so superior , then why do they need such a large displacement advantage to be competitive?

Like I said....it was all fine and dandy when they got to run against the 125 2 strokes. I'm beginning to become a bigger 2 stroke fan every day.
You do realize that a 2 stroke engine fires twice as much as a 4 stroke motor, so in theory, you need a 4 stroke motor with roughly twice the engine capacity to make similar horsepower. This cc vs cc argument is so irrelevant. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work that out.
Derpin' DJ
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Derpin' DJ 11/25/2014 1:08am
11/25/2014 1:08am
Lippy111 wrote:
You do realize that a 2 stroke engine fires twice as much as a 4 stroke motor, so in theory, you need a 4 stroke motor...
You do realize that a 2 stroke engine fires twice as much as a 4 stroke motor, so in theory, you need a 4 stroke motor with roughly twice the engine capacity to make similar horsepower. This cc vs cc argument is so irrelevant. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work that out.
Shit yeah, good to see a local with some brains Smile
Lippy111
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Lippy111 11/25/2014 1:21am
11/25/2014 1:21am
Lippy111 wrote:
You do realize that a 2 stroke engine fires twice as much as a 4 stroke motor, so in theory, you need a 4 stroke motor...
You do realize that a 2 stroke engine fires twice as much as a 4 stroke motor, so in theory, you need a 4 stroke motor with roughly twice the engine capacity to make similar horsepower. This cc vs cc argument is so irrelevant. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work that out.
Derpin' DJ wrote:
Shit yeah, good to see a local with some brains Smile
Thanks mate. I like both 2 and 4 strokes, so I'm not biased, I just get sick of these uneducated people who keep raving on about this equal cc garbage. They're 2 different types of engines for Christ's sake!!!
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KMC440 11/25/2014 5:42am
11/25/2014 5:42am
Lippy111 wrote:
You do realize that a 2 stroke engine fires twice as much as a 4 stroke motor, so in theory, you need a 4 stroke motor...
You do realize that a 2 stroke engine fires twice as much as a 4 stroke motor, so in theory, you need a 4 stroke motor with roughly twice the engine capacity to make similar horsepower. This cc vs cc argument is so irrelevant. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work that out.
It's twice as often ... the theory would be that a 4t would need to run at twice the rpm to equal the frequency of power strokes.
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Gringoe 11/25/2014 5:45am
11/25/2014 5:45am Edited Date/Time 11/25/2014 5:46am
jeffro503 wrote:
The big 4 had NO problem putting their 250F's up against the 125cc 2 strokes....and calling it fair! Now....CC vs CC......and the big 4 pitch a...
The big 4 had NO problem putting their 250F's up against the 125cc 2 strokes....and calling it fair!

Now....CC vs CC......and the big 4 pitch a fit! If the 4 stroke is so superior , then why do they need such a large displacement advantage to be competitive?

Like I said....it was all fine and dandy when they got to run against the 125 2 strokes. I'm beginning to become a bigger 2 stroke fan every day.
Lippy111 wrote:
You do realize that a 2 stroke engine fires twice as much as a 4 stroke motor, so in theory, you need a 4 stroke motor...
You do realize that a 2 stroke engine fires twice as much as a 4 stroke motor, so in theory, you need a 4 stroke motor with roughly twice the engine capacity to make similar horsepower. This cc vs cc argument is so irrelevant. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work that out.
Than how are they making 250fs the same hp as a stock 250 2 stroke?
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msp138 11/25/2014 6:01am
11/25/2014 6:01am Edited Date/Time 11/25/2014 6:02am
MxKing809 wrote:
Won't change the pro gate here in the states. It is crazy to go to a local race in Michigan though. 125B/C is the biggest class...
Won't change the pro gate here in the states. It is crazy to go to a local race in Michigan though. 125B/C is the biggest class, and 250B is half 2-stroke..... The times they are a changin'......
Brad460 wrote:
I call bullshit on half 250B being 2stroke..but it's your story you can tell it however you want...

Link your facts/proof..
MxKing809 wrote:
I haven't been to the track much this year, so I don't have a large sample size..... But of the 8-10 guys in 250B the last...
I haven't been to the track much this year, so I don't have a large sample size..... But of the 8-10 guys in 250B the last race I was at half were two strokes. So forgive me if I don't have the entry sheets on demand for you....... Jeezus...
I can back him up on that one. Every race I raced in D14 in Michigan there were just as many 2 strokes as 4 in a lot of classes. Go to a practice day at Baja acres and you'll see tons of smokers.

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reded
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reded 11/25/2014 6:03am
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Gringoe wrote:
Than how are they making 250fs the same hp as a stock 250 2 stroke?
30 years ago it was pretty much true due to the fact that no one had put any effort into the 4st engine. Lets think '85 CR125 vs. '85 XR250 and you'll understand. Nowadays that rule doesn't hold true due to technological advances but the 2st still holds the upper hand on a dollar for dollar basis and probably always will due to its simplicity and ability to make power on every revolution of the crankshaft.
rippaaa
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rippaaa 11/25/2014 6:12am
11/25/2014 6:12am
Why is there so many 2 stroke vs 4 stroke threads? Ride what you want, nothing is stopping any of us from riding what we want. Any bike is lethal in the right hands.
newmann
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newmann 11/25/2014 6:45am
11/25/2014 6:45am
jeffro503 wrote:
The big 4 had NO problem putting their 250F's up against the 125cc 2 strokes....and calling it fair! Now....CC vs CC......and the big 4 pitch a...
The big 4 had NO problem putting their 250F's up against the 125cc 2 strokes....and calling it fair!

Now....CC vs CC......and the big 4 pitch a fit! If the 4 stroke is so superior , then why do they need such a large displacement advantage to be competitive?

Like I said....it was all fine and dandy when they got to run against the 125 2 strokes. I'm beginning to become a bigger 2 stroke fan every day.
Lippy111 wrote:
You do realize that a 2 stroke engine fires twice as much as a 4 stroke motor, so in theory, you need a 4 stroke motor...
You do realize that a 2 stroke engine fires twice as much as a 4 stroke motor, so in theory, you need a 4 stroke motor with roughly twice the engine capacity to make similar horsepower. This cc vs cc argument is so irrelevant. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work that out.
Gringoe wrote:
Than how are they making 250fs the same hp as a stock 250 2 stroke?
They are turning the bitches to 14,500 rpm, that's how. Lippy overlooks that little fact. $40,000.00 worth of 250F Pro Circuit Formula 1 engine versus a stock 250 2 stroke is laughable. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to work that out.

But it's better for the sport. Whistling
newmann
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newmann 11/25/2014 6:46am
11/25/2014 6:46am
Lippy111 wrote:
You do realize that a 2 stroke engine fires twice as much as a 4 stroke motor, so in theory, you need a 4 stroke motor...
You do realize that a 2 stroke engine fires twice as much as a 4 stroke motor, so in theory, you need a 4 stroke motor with roughly twice the engine capacity to make similar horsepower. This cc vs cc argument is so irrelevant. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work that out.
KMC440 wrote:
It's twice as often ... the theory would be that a 4t would need to run at twice the rpm to equal the frequency of power...
It's twice as often ... the theory would be that a 4t would need to run at twice the rpm to equal the frequency of power strokes.
Don't confuse the educated one.
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Flip109 11/25/2014 6:49am
11/25/2014 6:49am
rippaaa wrote:
Why is there so many 2 stroke vs 4 stroke threads? Ride what you want, nothing is stopping any of us from riding what we want...
Why is there so many 2 stroke vs 4 stroke threads? Ride what you want, nothing is stopping any of us from riding what we want. Any bike is lethal in the right hands.
This
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Steve 396 11/25/2014 6:57am
11/25/2014 6:57am
rippaaa wrote:
Why is there so many 2 stroke vs 4 stroke threads? Ride what you want, nothing is stopping any of us from riding what we want...
Why is there so many 2 stroke vs 4 stroke threads? Ride what you want, nothing is stopping any of us from riding what we want. Any bike is lethal in the right hands.
^^^^^ This... Too much "Us vs Them" going on. My son has a 14 250F right now and loves it. He does miss his 125 though and IF I could afford to buy him another bike it would be a 250 2 stroke. Having the best of both worlds would be best. I tried 2 strokes when I first got into mx back in 2001 and it was like riding a chain saw. Way to "buzzy" for my taste and that is why I ride a 450. I haven't rode them since so maybe there are better 2 strokes out there but the point is..... Ride what makes you happy.

Samdanny576 said "Disposable income is the only thing that will bring the sport back" and he is right. Down here folks still ride but there are not as many doing it. Those people have decided to go to the beach, fishing, hunting, or feed there family instead.
MotoX85
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MotoX85 11/25/2014 6:58am
11/25/2014 6:58am
I have 7 bikes, 2 of them are pitbikes. The only 4 strokes we own are the 2 pitbikes. About 35 - 40% around us are 2 strokes or are switching back to 2T.
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TailSoHard 11/25/2014 7:03am
11/25/2014 7:03am
Brad460 wrote:
I call bullshit on half 250B being 2stroke..but it's your story you can tell it however you want...

Link your facts/proof..
MxKing809 wrote:
I haven't been to the track much this year, so I don't have a large sample size..... But of the 8-10 guys in 250B the last...
I haven't been to the track much this year, so I don't have a large sample size..... But of the 8-10 guys in 250B the last race I was at half were two strokes. So forgive me if I don't have the entry sheets on demand for you....... Jeezus...
msp138 wrote:
I can back him up on that one. Every race I raced in D14 in Michigan there were just as many 2 strokes as 4 in...
I can back him up on that one. Every race I raced in D14 in Michigan there were just as many 2 strokes as 4 in a lot of classes. Go to a practice day at Baja acres and you'll see tons of smokers.
Yep, all kinds of two strokes all over the place here in the mitten. Not to mention the off-road scene. You'd actually be in the minority if you showed up at Jack Pine on a thumper (or anything non-orange haha).
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seth505 11/25/2014 7:05am
11/25/2014 7:05am
jeffro503 wrote:
The big 4 had NO problem putting their 250F's up against the 125cc 2 strokes....and calling it fair! Now....CC vs CC......and the big 4 pitch a...
The big 4 had NO problem putting their 250F's up against the 125cc 2 strokes....and calling it fair!

Now....CC vs CC......and the big 4 pitch a fit! If the 4 stroke is so superior , then why do they need such a large displacement advantage to be competitive?

Like I said....it was all fine and dandy when they got to run against the 125 2 strokes. I'm beginning to become a bigger 2 stroke fan every day.
Lippy111 wrote:
You do realize that a 2 stroke engine fires twice as much as a 4 stroke motor, so in theory, you need a 4 stroke motor...
You do realize that a 2 stroke engine fires twice as much as a 4 stroke motor, so in theory, you need a 4 stroke motor with roughly twice the engine capacity to make similar horsepower. This cc vs cc argument is so irrelevant. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work that out.
It also doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that going from a simple engine design to pushing one that is more complex and expensive to fix is stupid as hell for the racing community as a whole. I assume you already knew that.
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burn1986 11/25/2014 7:09am
11/25/2014 7:09am Edited Date/Time 11/25/2014 7:09am
ToddWitten83 wrote:
I'm from Australia. Down here, the 250 2t is allowed to run with the 250 4t. Before this rule was included Australia was seeing thinning start...
I'm from Australia. Down here, the 250 2t is allowed to run with the 250 4t. Before this rule was included Australia was seeing thinning start lines in is pro class. Do you think bringing back the two stroke into the racing circle will revamp up starting line and bring more people to the sport? Motorcycling Australia has already brought in the rule of no modifications to the 250 2t from the intake port to the exhaust port (meaning no porting, high comp piston/ head) with the exclusion of base gaskets, just to please the big five. So what do you guys think, give the privateers a go, or leave it to the big boys??
Has the number of riders on the starting line improved?
Lippy111
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Lippy111 11/26/2014 12:37am
11/26/2014 12:37am
Lippy111 wrote:
You do realize that a 2 stroke engine fires twice as much as a 4 stroke motor, so in theory, you need a 4 stroke motor...
You do realize that a 2 stroke engine fires twice as much as a 4 stroke motor, so in theory, you need a 4 stroke motor with roughly twice the engine capacity to make similar horsepower. This cc vs cc argument is so irrelevant. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work that out.
Gringoe wrote:
Than how are they making 250fs the same hp as a stock 250 2 stroke?
newmann wrote:
They are turning the bitches to 14,500 rpm, that's how. Lippy overlooks that little fact. $40,000.00 worth of 250F Pro Circuit Formula 1 engine versus a...
They are turning the bitches to 14,500 rpm, that's how. Lippy overlooks that little fact. $40,000.00 worth of 250F Pro Circuit Formula 1 engine versus a stock 250 2 stroke is laughable. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to work that out.

But it's better for the sport. Whistling
Well then maybe you need to become a rocket scientist then, if you don't know that a stock KTM250sx still makes more horsepower than a $40000 Pro Circuit Formula1 engine. Next Whistling
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ky_savage 11/26/2014 3:54am
11/26/2014 3:54am
scott_nz wrote:
the devaluing US dollar is what sky rocketed motorcycle prices in the USA, they are in the middle of the range they have been in the...
the devaluing US dollar is what sky rocketed motorcycle prices in the USA, they are in the middle of the range they have been in the last 10 years here in NZ and AU,
It didn't sky rocket the price of the road bikes nearly as much as the Off-road bikes. Off-road bikes are just overpriced.

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