Posts
1358
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Cowden, IL
US
Edited Date/Time
1/25/2012 5:02pm
Why focus on the mod class?
It’s really simple. Cheating. We’ve raced “65s” that outran 85s with similarly skilled riders. We’ve notices as riders get busted for running big bores in “stock” race after race and yet are still on the Loretta’s starting line. That’s right busted in an AMA race and DQ for only one day. It’s shameful, but there are a few that don’t understand shame.
A quick search on KTM Talk and a few other discussion boards will out the names of the guilty. Regardless of what these riders do in their careers and lives they are and will always be cheaters.
“I accidently picked the wrong bike” is an overused excuse. Please. No on believes that. Especially the person saying it.
While there is plenty of cheating in the mod classes, determining rule compliance is as simple as a bore and stroke measurement.
In the stock classes we were shown a cylinder, ran by someone who had just won the stock qualifier, that had porting and polishing done in a way you couldn’t detect it without a mirror and then it would be really hard. A few people get their cylinders reworked and then have them replated so they look stock. Then you have the slightly longer stroked cranks and the different ignitions and don’t forget the reed block mods... It doesn’t stop.
The AMA doesn’t have a way to find this, except random instances, and obviously doesn’t care about cheating much. If it did care the top finishing bikes would be torn down along with a few others chosen at random. Combine than with a mandatory one year AMA suspension and a return to the AMA with probation for a year with a requirement the number plate backgrounds be purple so everyone knows this person is a cheater and you might drastically cut down cheating overnight. We’ll never know.
Instead the AMA has a protest system that is stacked in favor of the cheater. No one likes protests, but we now know what happens when they are too expensive. Plus, if a bike is protested, the AMA does not have any stock cylinder and heads there to use as a template for measuring the suspect equipment. And if the local AMA official doesn’t find sufficient evident of cheating the protesting party cannot appeal the finding up the AMA chain. Only someone found to be cheating can appeal up. The cost of a protest is too high. Try protesting a bike for bore, stroke, reed valve mods and carb mods and see what that will cost. Then ask an AMA official about protesting an ignition box and watch the dumbfounded look you get. They you’ll start to see why many, likely a majority at some races, believe they can get away with it.
We may likely still line up for the occasional stock class qualifier or national. We do so with the knowledge that at minimum 1 out of every 3 bikes there is cheating. So, our focus is on the mod class. Thanks AMA another job well done.
Friday
It’s really simple. Cheating. We’ve raced “65s” that outran 85s with similarly skilled riders. We’ve notices as riders get busted for running big bores in “stock” race after race and yet are still on the Loretta’s starting line. That’s right busted in an AMA race and DQ for only one day. It’s shameful, but there are a few that don’t understand shame.
A quick search on KTM Talk and a few other discussion boards will out the names of the guilty. Regardless of what these riders do in their careers and lives they are and will always be cheaters.
“I accidently picked the wrong bike” is an overused excuse. Please. No on believes that. Especially the person saying it.
While there is plenty of cheating in the mod classes, determining rule compliance is as simple as a bore and stroke measurement.
In the stock classes we were shown a cylinder, ran by someone who had just won the stock qualifier, that had porting and polishing done in a way you couldn’t detect it without a mirror and then it would be really hard. A few people get their cylinders reworked and then have them replated so they look stock. Then you have the slightly longer stroked cranks and the different ignitions and don’t forget the reed block mods... It doesn’t stop.
The AMA doesn’t have a way to find this, except random instances, and obviously doesn’t care about cheating much. If it did care the top finishing bikes would be torn down along with a few others chosen at random. Combine than with a mandatory one year AMA suspension and a return to the AMA with probation for a year with a requirement the number plate backgrounds be purple so everyone knows this person is a cheater and you might drastically cut down cheating overnight. We’ll never know.
Instead the AMA has a protest system that is stacked in favor of the cheater. No one likes protests, but we now know what happens when they are too expensive. Plus, if a bike is protested, the AMA does not have any stock cylinder and heads there to use as a template for measuring the suspect equipment. And if the local AMA official doesn’t find sufficient evident of cheating the protesting party cannot appeal the finding up the AMA chain. Only someone found to be cheating can appeal up. The cost of a protest is too high. Try protesting a bike for bore, stroke, reed valve mods and carb mods and see what that will cost. Then ask an AMA official about protesting an ignition box and watch the dumbfounded look you get. They you’ll start to see why many, likely a majority at some races, believe they can get away with it.
We may likely still line up for the occasional stock class qualifier or national. We do so with the knowledge that at minimum 1 out of every 3 bikes there is cheating. So, our focus is on the mod class. Thanks AMA another job well done.
Friday
It's like steroids in baseball...
or PED in other sports...
On approach to solve to problem is say it's ALL legal! Of course for racing that's not exactly kosher...as then we would have 150cc 85's.
In shifter kart racing...some classes have a spec motor. This is a bad solution for us IMHO...but all racers must buy it from certain builders...and the motor is sealed with tape etc...upon assembly. Easy to tell when torn down...and they probably have a harder time cheating...
I think in racing...the main thing to realize is it's still a lot of rider. Sadly at the top 85 and 65 level...the fast kids can all use a lot more motor...so any more motor you give them helps them out...but even so cream always rises to the top...
I also feel some cheater motors are to "level" the playing field. Some of the top kids have parents with really deep pockets...or a good credit rating! This allows them to build legal motors that are so ungodly expensive...and require constant rebuilds...but are screaming fast...
Some of the "poorer" kids parents may just have a motor punched out to next size without any real porting or development done along with that. In doing so...the bike may pick up a tad bit of reliable hp...but it still doesn't compete with the legal expensive motors...
I mean cheating is a part of racing...and I feel an important part of racing. Creative cheating is even more part...and pushing the envelop on working around the rules is all just an excersize of brain power...and makes the rule makers make better rules... Sure it would be nice to have everyone on a level playing field...but as long as their are rules...there will be people who break them.
Mod class, stock bore and stroke, any thing else is open.
Never happen! MX Sports would lose half their income!
Really, other than extra dollars for the entries, what good is a stock class? What does it really show anyway?
When I raced stock, I would run the same stock bike in the mod class. Same guys were winning. No difference.
These problems exist in virtually all forms of racing, including spec motors.
In my opinion, the best way to tech would be to roll up the bike on a wheel dyno after the race [or before if you think somebody has a hot mix of fuel in the carb/filter] measure the HP/torque, if over what is expected DQ the rider, fine him $200.00.
You would still have to look for a few things like a hidden switch to change ignition timing or full throttle potential, etc.
Allow the riders to use the dyno before the event starts if they want to, maybe charge a few bucks to help pay for the dyno. This could also help calibrate the dyno, which is probably the weakest link in this method.
The HP/torque limit could be set for the highest producing model in the class, allowing bikes with less HP/torque from the factory, a chance to modify their bikes to be competitive.
The best thing about this method, is [1] everybody could see the dyno runs, and eliminate all the BS about how they got beat because so and so had 30% more HP, and [2] the beer drinking can start earlier.
Doug S.
The Shop
The aftermarket is a crucial element to motocross.
Doug S
Post a reply to: a interesting blog entry I found