Yellow Track Barriers and Rider Safety

Anonymous (not verified)
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I've been wondering for a while why the Nationals run the tall yellow barriers on the insides of some corners. Seems like every so often a guy nails one. I recall JS7 racing RC one time and catching his front brake on one, throwing him over the bars. Now at Unadilla Nelson was life-flighted out after apparently clipping a barrier which may have led to his crash. The pros are often seen threading the needle around them at high speeds.

Why is there anything on track tall enough to run handlebars into? All I can think of is the vision aspect. The bigger the object is, the more likely a rider will notice it and stay on the race course. Are they advertising on these barriers? My recollection fails me...... Can someone explain the logic behind the design for me?

I realize lean angles will change depending on the corner and rider, but a lower to the ground approach makes more sense to me. Not sure why the barriers can;t be something like 1 foot tall by few feet long and still bright yellow. Chamfer the edges and put the ad stickers on top. Stake them down and good to go.
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Mr. Info
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8/13/2016 11:58pm
It was done to mark a corner and I think safer than a hay bale IMO.
philG
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8/14/2016 3:32am
Sadly riders play fast and loose with track boundaries, put something in that you cant hit, and it stops that.

The turn round the tree had a barrel shaped thing marking the inside , and that ended up in the middle of the track . Everyone then cut inside where it would have been , and went to the fence.

3 bales were put in the landing area after the Gravity cavity, and they all got blown out, within 5 laps or so.

And i noticed someone( maybe Wilson) running down the grass after the Skyshot a few times.

Musquin ( and others) up the bank under the bridge.. and thats just what we saw on screen.


Its the same in GP's , guys skirting jumps etc..

Personally , i think the tracks look great, have good marking and sympathetic to trackside fans advertising.

Is it any more dangerous that the Red Bull arch or Monster bridges.. no
JWoods126
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8/14/2016 5:12am
Those yellow corner marker/barriers are soft foam/rubber and are held up by a 1x4 stake. It doesn't get much safer.
JustMX
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8/14/2016 5:55am
Mr. Info wrote:
It was done to mark a corner and I think safer than a hay bale IMO.
Wouldn't have happened if he was running dehandlers.

The Shop

DC
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8/14/2016 6:00am
Track and Trail, the nationals been using the yellow foam-rubber Acerbis barriers for years. One wooden stake is driven into the ground, on the said away from the track, and the barriers usually spin or just get knocked down when a rider hits one. They are lightweight and portable, unlike hay bales, whig usually become heavy over the course of a day through watering or rain, and can send you over the bars or pull off a foot when a rider hits them. (And I don't remember Stewart ever hitting one and endo-ing while battling with RC, because we weren't using them back in 2006 or '07, maybe you're thinking of the mound of dirt he hit on the inside corner he hit one year at RedBud and stopped him?)

I was in the section where Jessy went down earlier, and it was rough and rutted from one side to the other, but so was the whole track after a full day of racing. I didn't see the crash and can't really tell by the video, but we are checking on Jessy this morning and hoping there's more positive news. Needless to say, we are all hoping and praying he makes a full recovery.

And #677 Cody Williams stopping to help him was an exceptional and selfless act by a fellow rider. Well done.

DC


downard254
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8/14/2016 6:25am
I think the yellow thing that Stewart crashed into was a yellow RMZ with a big ol' #4 on it. Only thing I remember Stewart crashing into at Unadilla.

And X2 on Williams stopping to help. Pretty cool to see that one's safety takes precedent over a race result.
newmann
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8/14/2016 6:31am
As one fellow Vitard/Industry Insider used to say, "stay on the track and there won't be a problem" or "don't hit the tuff blocks and you won't crash". Besides, would you rather they use trees?Pinch



yak651
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8/14/2016 6:40am
newmann wrote:
As one fellow Vitard/Industry Insider used to say, "stay on the track and there won't be a problem" or "don't hit the tuff blocks and you...
As one fellow Vitard/Industry Insider used to say, "stay on the track and there won't be a problem" or "don't hit the tuff blocks and you won't crash". Besides, would you rather they use trees?Pinch



cmon Newman, they stretchwrapped hay to the tree, what more do you want!
yak651
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8/14/2016 6:42am
Also, any response from MX Sports to Trey Canards instagram post of the haybales being perpendicular to the track direction on the track?
kzizok
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8/14/2016 7:00am Edited Date/Time 8/14/2016 7:01am
DC wrote:
Track and Trail, the nationals been using the yellow foam-rubber Acerbis barriers for years. One wooden stake is driven into the ground, on the said away...
Track and Trail, the nationals been using the yellow foam-rubber Acerbis barriers for years. One wooden stake is driven into the ground, on the said away from the track, and the barriers usually spin or just get knocked down when a rider hits one. They are lightweight and portable, unlike hay bales, whig usually become heavy over the course of a day through watering or rain, and can send you over the bars or pull off a foot when a rider hits them. (And I don't remember Stewart ever hitting one and endo-ing while battling with RC, because we weren't using them back in 2006 or '07, maybe you're thinking of the mound of dirt he hit on the inside corner he hit one year at RedBud and stopped him?)

I was in the section where Jessy went down earlier, and it was rough and rutted from one side to the other, but so was the whole track after a full day of racing. I didn't see the crash and can't really tell by the video, but we are checking on Jessy this morning and hoping there's more positive news. Needless to say, we are all hoping and praying he makes a full recovery.

And #677 Cody Williams stopping to help him was an exceptional and selfless act by a fellow rider. Well done.

DC


Just wanna say good job in the quick actions for Jessy Nelson. Sometimes these things get lost but the quick care to Jessy, early and right call for the red flag and other things were executed and managed well. Good job to the medical crew, track safety crew, the rider who stopped to help, and the decision to stop the race. It can be difficult to make split second decisions but the correct ones were made and kudos to all involved.
Beast666
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8/14/2016 7:38am
To bad the OP never had the pleasure of racing bact when the track barriers were snow fence. Crashing through or clipping those were not pleasent at all. The yellow markers are a very safe approach to marking the track limits. Perhaps next year MN Sports can use breakaway ski poles those will bitch slap you to the ground if you cut them to close and you hook it with your bars or fender.
DC
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8/14/2016 8:08am
Yak681, Trey had a point. I believe a member of the track crew put them there. As soon as Jeff Canfield and I saw them we removed them. Not a big fan of haybales along the tracks unless they are wrapping trees and fence posts...

DC
Uncle Tony
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8/14/2016 8:36am


In the old days riders didn't need track barriers
hvaughn88
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8/14/2016 8:40am
Uncle Tony wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/08/14/147065/s1200_image.jpg[/img] In the old days riders didn't need track barriers


In the old days riders didn't need track barriers
Hahaha, except for the track barriers in the picture
8/14/2016 8:59am
Over here in the UK when I first started racing in 1989, the track was marked with wooden stakes that were approximately handlebar height & to link that all together rope was used. You certainly didn't wanna go off track with that combo. If I remember correctly years ago, a little kiddie was killed by getting strangled by the rope. A hit a wooden stake 20 yrs ago that shattered my elbow.
The Rock
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8/14/2016 9:57am
Mr. Info wrote:
It was done to mark a corner and I think safer than a hay bale IMO.
I worked yesterday (and again today) so haven't seen the race.

Is now the time to shorten those yellow barriers down to hay bale height? I've never understood why those things needed to be that tall to begin with.
newmann
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8/14/2016 10:08am
Uncle Tony wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/08/14/147065/s1200_image.jpg[/img] In the old days riders didn't need track barriers


In the old days riders didn't need track barriers
Yeah, but the fans were dressed so nice that no way would a rider mow any of them down.Smile
The Rock
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8/14/2016 10:25am
My first European MX was Namur 2000. I was amazed how nicely the fans were dressed and I didn't see one race jersey being worn.

I was rolling that day with Phil Aldetton who was heavier then usual. Phil was dressed all in yellow and resembled a bee slightly. We got a lot of looks that day.

Man I miss that guy.
yak651
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8/14/2016 10:32am
DC wrote:
Yak681, Trey had a point. I believe a member of the track crew put them there. As soon as Jeff Canfield and I saw them we...
Yak681, Trey had a point. I believe a member of the track crew put them there. As soon as Jeff Canfield and I saw them we removed them. Not a big fan of haybales along the tracks unless they are wrapping trees and fence posts...

DC
That's good to hear, can't protect from everything but need to make sure we don't make it more dangerous than it has to be.
early
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8/14/2016 10:34am
The Rock wrote:
I worked yesterday (and again today) so haven't seen the race. Is now the time to shorten those yellow barriers down to hay bale height? I've...
I worked yesterday (and again today) so haven't seen the race.

Is now the time to shorten those yellow barriers down to hay bale height? I've never understood why those things needed to be that tall to begin with.
The hay bale height acerbis markers that mark the straights routinely get run over and scattered about the track. I believe the same thing would happen to shorter corner markers. Probably the safest method whould be an inside berm built up with the short markers stuck in the top of it, but i think there is a question of how far you want to go with it trying to increase safety. The existing markers seem like a simple and effective solution whether they contributed to yesterdays crash or not. Wishing the best to Mr Nelson.
hvaughn88
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8/14/2016 10:36am
The solution is obvious. Send the rider in question a picture of weimer, then hand out a punishment Tongue
The Rock
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8/14/2016 10:38am Edited Date/Time 8/14/2016 10:40am
early wrote:
The hay bale height acerbis markers that mark the straights routinely get run over and scattered about the track. I believe the same thing would happen...
The hay bale height acerbis markers that mark the straights routinely get run over and scattered about the track. I believe the same thing would happen to shorter corner markers. Probably the safest method whould be an inside berm built up with the short markers stuck in the top of it, but i think there is a question of how far you want to go with it trying to increase safety. The existing markers seem like a simple and effective solution whether they contributed to yesterdays crash or not. Wishing the best to Mr Nelson.

Rightly or wrongly I'm under the impression Nelson hit one of the taller yellow barriers and not the short yellow Acerbis markers I've been railing against for years.

Whatever the solution is it definitely is NOT more of the short yellow Acerbis track markers.
hvaughn88
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8/14/2016 10:41am Edited Date/Time 8/14/2016 10:53am
early wrote:
The hay bale height acerbis markers that mark the straights routinely get run over and scattered about the track. I believe the same thing would happen...
The hay bale height acerbis markers that mark the straights routinely get run over and scattered about the track. I believe the same thing would happen to shorter corner markers. Probably the safest method whould be an inside berm built up with the short markers stuck in the top of it, but i think there is a question of how far you want to go with it trying to increase safety. The existing markers seem like a simple and effective solution whether they contributed to yesterdays crash or not. Wishing the best to Mr Nelson.
The Rock wrote:
Rightly or wrongly I'm under the impression Nelson hit one of the taller yellow barriers and not the short yellow Acerbis markers I've been railing against...

Rightly or wrongly I'm under the impression Nelson hit one of the taller yellow barriers and not the short yellow Acerbis markers I've been railing against for years.

Whatever the solution is it definitely is NOT more of the short yellow Acerbis track markers.
I know I'm going to regret asking this, but what's wrong with the short yellow acerbis markers?
DonM
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8/14/2016 10:43am
early wrote:
The hay bale height acerbis markers that mark the straights routinely get run over and scattered about the track. I believe the same thing would happen...
The hay bale height acerbis markers that mark the straights routinely get run over and scattered about the track. I believe the same thing would happen to shorter corner markers. Probably the safest method whould be an inside berm built up with the short markers stuck in the top of it, but i think there is a question of how far you want to go with it trying to increase safety. The existing markers seem like a simple and effective solution whether they contributed to yesterdays crash or not. Wishing the best to Mr Nelson.
The Rock wrote:
Rightly or wrongly I'm under the impression Nelson hit one of the taller yellow barriers and not the short yellow Acerbis markers I've been railing against...

Rightly or wrongly I'm under the impression Nelson hit one of the taller yellow barriers and not the short yellow Acerbis markers I've been railing against for years.

Whatever the solution is it definitely is NOT more of the short yellow Acerbis track markers.
If you watch the video he cross ruts and happens to hit the barrier, but the barrier had nothing to do with the crash or his injury...he cross rutted crashed and his bike came down on his back and thats what caused the injury.
Uncle Tony
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8/14/2016 10:45am
hvaughn88 wrote:
I know I'm going to regret asking this, but what's wrong with the short yellow acerbis markers?
Yeah I would like to know also?
gt80rider
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8/14/2016 11:50am
DonM wrote:
If you watch the video he cross ruts and happens to hit the barrier, but the barrier had nothing to do with the crash or his...
If you watch the video he cross ruts and happens to hit the barrier, but the barrier had nothing to do with the crash or his injury...he cross rutted crashed and his bike came down on his back and thats what caused the injury.
I saw the video a bit differently... Looked to me like that taller barrier made his situation worse, made his bike completely uncontrollable after hitting it...

Safety... If doing something can save one person from a needless serious injury, it needs to be done... And be done before the first person gets hurt....

Shall we look at f1? They don't use physical barriers to mark their track... They use video tape to dock drivers that get too far off the track...

Having a barrier that is handlebar height on an mx track is far less than optimal... I know everyone loves to hate on the short acerbis plastic stakes, but they do there job with nearly no chance of causing injury... While not cheap or easy, it is possible that video is the ultimate answer....
8/14/2016 1:08pm
Over here in the UK when I first started racing in 1989, the track was marked with wooden stakes that were approximately handlebar height & to...
Over here in the UK when I first started racing in 1989, the track was marked with wooden stakes that were approximately handlebar height & to link that all together rope was used. You certainly didn't wanna go off track with that combo. If I remember correctly years ago, a little kiddie was killed by getting strangled by the rope. A hit a wooden stake 20 yrs ago that shattered my elbow.
You do remember correctly, it was at Wakes Colne, I was just ahead of him on the downhill at the time, being so young I didn't appreciate the situation at the time, can't imagine what his parents went through. We still have wooden stakes which isn't ideal but better than chestnut fencing.

Back on topic riders will always push the boundaries of the track, especially on the insides of corners. I would be cautious of anything to substantial around jumps and downhills though.
8/14/2016 1:32pm
You do remember correctly, it was at Wakes Colne, I was just ahead of him on the downhill at the time, being so young I didn't...
You do remember correctly, it was at Wakes Colne, I was just ahead of him on the downhill at the time, being so young I didn't appreciate the situation at the time, can't imagine what his parents went through. We still have wooden stakes which isn't ideal but better than chestnut fencing.

Back on topic riders will always push the boundaries of the track, especially on the insides of corners. I would be cautious of anything to substantial around jumps and downhills though.
I remember reading about it TMX news, wasn't he about 9 yrs old & in the 60's.
colintrax
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8/14/2016 2:18pm Edited Date/Time 8/14/2016 2:18pm
Yall know those yellow track markers are so flexible they'll bend from roost right? What do you want? Halograms?

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