Will Tomac be able to challenge Roczen once he gets up to speed?

zehn
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zehn
Edited Date/Time 7/22/2014 6:48am
These guys battled each other pretty consistently on 250s, but now that they're on the big bikes, do you think Tomac can challenge Roczen after he's been on the bike a while?
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zook11
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zook11 6/26/2014 8:02pm
6/26/2014 8:02pm Edited Date/Time 6/26/2014 8:02pm
Tomac was a little faster than Kenny the last 2 years, so he should be able to run his pace at some point.

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MxKing809
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MxKing809 6/26/2014 8:04pm
6/26/2014 8:04pm Edited Date/Time 6/26/2014 8:04pm
I sure hope so. If he can't I'm not sure who will. It comes down to riding style IMO..... Roczen with the smooth easy flow which suits a 450, and Tomac who muscles bikes around (which is a pleasure to watch) but notoriously clashes with the bigger bikes. It should be interesting and I really hope he springs back from the spell of bad ju-ju that's been following him
zehn
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zehn 6/26/2014 8:12pm
6/26/2014 8:12pm
MxKing809 wrote:
I sure hope so. If he can't I'm not sure who will. It comes down to riding style IMO..... Roczen with the smooth easy flow which...
I sure hope so. If he can't I'm not sure who will. It comes down to riding style IMO..... Roczen with the smooth easy flow which suits a 450, and Tomac who muscles bikes around (which is a pleasure to watch) but notoriously clashes with the bigger bikes. It should be interesting and I really hope he springs back from the spell of bad ju-ju that's been following him
I think you're right. Kenny definitely has a more adaptable style for the big bikes. Tomac tends to override the bike sometimes and relies on his fitness to take him to the end of the motos. I'd like to seem him slow down to go faster, if that makes any sense.
bd
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bd 6/26/2014 8:13pm
6/26/2014 8:13pm
MxKing809 wrote:
I sure hope so. If he can't I'm not sure who will. It comes down to riding style IMO..... Roczen with the smooth easy flow which...
I sure hope so. If he can't I'm not sure who will. It comes down to riding style IMO..... Roczen with the smooth easy flow which suits a 450, and Tomac who muscles bikes around (which is a pleasure to watch) but notoriously clashes with the bigger bikes. It should be interesting and I really hope he springs back from the spell of bad ju-ju that's been following him
KROC did not ride his 250F more aggressive?
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bd 6/26/2014 8:14pm
6/26/2014 8:14pm Edited Date/Time 6/26/2014 8:18pm
Tomac flat out owned KROC during the second half of the 250F Nationals. KROC's game is better. You are a fool to believe Tomac will not raise and adapt his game.
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zehn 6/26/2014 8:16pm
6/26/2014 8:16pm
MxKing809 wrote:
I sure hope so. If he can't I'm not sure who will. It comes down to riding style IMO..... Roczen with the smooth easy flow which...
I sure hope so. If he can't I'm not sure who will. It comes down to riding style IMO..... Roczen with the smooth easy flow which suits a 450, and Tomac who muscles bikes around (which is a pleasure to watch) but notoriously clashes with the bigger bikes. It should be interesting and I really hope he springs back from the spell of bad ju-ju that's been following him
bd wrote:
KROC did not ride his 250F more aggressive?
He did, because you can get away with that on a 250F. I haven't noticed him ride that way on his 450.
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bd 6/26/2014 8:19pm
6/26/2014 8:19pm
MxKing809 wrote:
I sure hope so. If he can't I'm not sure who will. It comes down to riding style IMO..... Roczen with the smooth easy flow which...
I sure hope so. If he can't I'm not sure who will. It comes down to riding style IMO..... Roczen with the smooth easy flow which suits a 450, and Tomac who muscles bikes around (which is a pleasure to watch) but notoriously clashes with the bigger bikes. It should be interesting and I really hope he springs back from the spell of bad ju-ju that's been following him
bd wrote:
KROC did not ride his 250F more aggressive?
zehn wrote:
He did, because you can get away with that on a 250F. I haven't noticed him ride that way on his 450.
Correct, riding a 250F and 450F differ.
Wolf of Motocross 6/26/2014 8:25pm
6/26/2014 8:25pm
zook11 wrote:
Tomac was a little faster than Kenny the last 2 years, so he should be able to run his pace at some point.
Not a chance. Kroc would be the points leader even if rv was racing. It's simple, Kroc found another level that tomac will never reach.
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zook11 6/26/2014 8:32pm
6/26/2014 8:32pm
zook11 wrote:
Tomac was a little faster than Kenny the last 2 years, so he should be able to run his pace at some point.
Wolf of Motocross wrote:
Not a chance. Kroc would be the points leader even if rv was racing. It's simple, Kroc found another level that tomac will never reach.
RV was beating all those guys last year that Roczen is getting beat by. Roczen is great but he's no RV yet.
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visser62 6/26/2014 8:53pm
6/26/2014 8:53pm
It's tough to comment, because to me, Roczen looks a lot better this year; Tomac looks worse. The 450 definitely seems to be an improvement for Kenny. Even when Tomac is going fast on the 450, he doesn't look comfortable. I don't know what it is. I think with both of them getting in better shape and speed throughout their 450 careers, we are in for some incredible battles between these two.
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tvo314 6/26/2014 8:55pm
6/26/2014 8:55pm
I think it will take a little while, but Tomac's got it in him if he can build some momentum without getting hurt. I can't think of too many people as promising as those two.
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bsharkey 6/26/2014 9:15pm
6/26/2014 9:15pm
like others have said tomacs style is a lot like RVs. wide open, so it might take some time to adapt to the 450 i think. he will get it figured out. i would count him as more of a factor next year after what this year has been like.
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pilotdude 6/26/2014 10:10pm
6/26/2014 10:10pm
zook11 wrote:
Tomac was a little faster than Kenny the last 2 years, so he should be able to run his pace at some point.
Wolf of Motocross wrote:
Not a chance. Kroc would be the points leader even if rv was racing. It's simple, Kroc found another level that tomac will never reach.
Jesus.
StartedTooLate 6/26/2014 11:03pm
6/26/2014 11:03pm Edited Date/Time 6/26/2014 11:05pm
Tomac clearly had a level of speed in 250s that was beyond KR. He schooled him outdoors. He should have won the SX title as well, but had a bad crash at Oakland...followed by a terrible race at Salt Lake where Geico blew the entire teams set up (Both Eli and Zach could barely get through the whoops).

That said, KRs style clearly has transferred over to the 450 very well. I think that people who write off Tomac because of how he has not adjusted as quick are losing sight of the big picture. I think it will take him a bit longer to get it dialed and to adjust his style and technique. But when he does..watch out. There were races last year, outdoors, where the things Tomac was doing were right up there with RV. We will see that again. Tomac knows he has work to do. He knows he has to adjust is technique to suit the 450, but it takes time to get in the reps to change the way you do things unconsciously.

Let's not forget...we have not even seen ET on a 450 outdoors once.
willie838
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willie838 6/26/2014 11:06pm
6/26/2014 11:06pm
i haven't seen enough of ET in sx or mx to really have a solid opinion on this topic. In theory he should be able to, but there are plenty of small bike maestros that did not translate to the premier class well. time and results will dictate if tomac can recapture his top of the class form.

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zehn
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zehn 6/26/2014 11:29pm
6/26/2014 11:29pm
visser62 wrote:
It's tough to comment, because to me, Roczen looks a lot better this year; Tomac looks worse. The 450 definitely seems to be an improvement for...
It's tough to comment, because to me, Roczen looks a lot better this year; Tomac looks worse. The 450 definitely seems to be an improvement for Kenny. Even when Tomac is going fast on the 450, he doesn't look comfortable. I don't know what it is. I think with both of them getting in better shape and speed throughout their 450 careers, we are in for some incredible battles between these two.
Perhaps Tomac may be suffering from the Honda blues that seemed to plague Barcia?
zehn
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zehn 6/26/2014 11:30pm
6/26/2014 11:30pm
tvo314 wrote:
I think it will take a little while, but Tomac's got it in him if he can build some momentum without getting hurt. I can't think...
I think it will take a little while, but Tomac's got it in him if he can build some momentum without getting hurt. I can't think of too many people as promising as those two.
Don't forget about Barcia. I bet he'll come out swinging on the Yamaha.
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bd 6/26/2014 11:56pm
6/26/2014 11:56pm
visser62 wrote:
It's tough to comment, because to me, Roczen looks a lot better this year; Tomac looks worse. The 450 definitely seems to be an improvement for...
It's tough to comment, because to me, Roczen looks a lot better this year; Tomac looks worse. The 450 definitely seems to be an improvement for Kenny. Even when Tomac is going fast on the 450, he doesn't look comfortable. I don't know what it is. I think with both of them getting in better shape and speed throughout their 450 careers, we are in for some incredible battles between these two.
zehn wrote:
Perhaps Tomac may be suffering from the Honda blues that seemed to plague Barcia?
Landing on his shoulder A1 and breaking a collar bone before Vegas didn't help. That Honda is a turd, Canard looks like shit on it. Sigh
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mmcmx 6/27/2014 12:30am
6/27/2014 12:30am
No
2strokerider 6/27/2014 1:00am
6/27/2014 1:00am Edited Date/Time 6/27/2014 1:19am
not sure if tomac will be able to challenge ken on the 450 but it will make for some interesting racing if he can! hopefully canard can step it up a bit and challenge for wins too.
Interested to see if grant can put anymore motos together like the first one at glen helen too!! He's obviously got the speed- be nice to see him challenge more often.
eurofighter69 6/27/2014 1:33am
6/27/2014 1:33am
zook11 wrote:
RV was beating all those guys last year that Roczen is getting beat by. Roczen is great but he's no RV yet.
I agree,Roczen is only 20!!!!
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PressPassP 6/27/2014 3:08am
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zook11 wrote:
Tomac was a little faster than Kenny the last 2 years, so he should be able to run his pace at some point.
Wolf of Motocross wrote:
Not a chance. Kroc would be the points leader even if rv was racing. It's simple, Kroc found another level that tomac will never reach.
zook11 wrote:
RV was beating all those guys last year that Roczen is getting beat by. Roczen is great but he's no RV yet.
I think he'd be giving RV something to deal with,certainly more than any other year,Dungey and Canard are your markers,who Roczen's beating, he's had to come through that kind of tough traffic a lot.

Stewart's definitely upped his game this year,Tomac is an unknown quantity on a 450 Outdoors,sure he overhauled Kenny the 2nd half of last season but I think Roczen's really suited to the 450
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Crush 6/27/2014 4:12am
6/27/2014 4:12am
Has Eli got one more year at Geico or is it an option?
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MCR 6/27/2014 4:50am
6/27/2014 4:50am
The first few round, NO. Tomac missed allot of races in SX and so far a few MX rounds. It will take some time and races when we see Eli up there! If he can stay healty i think i will run with those guys the last few races!

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IWreckALot 6/27/2014 5:05am
6/27/2014 5:05am
StartedTooLate wrote:
Tomac clearly had a level of speed in 250s that was beyond KR. He schooled him outdoors. He should have won the SX title as well...
Tomac clearly had a level of speed in 250s that was beyond KR. He schooled him outdoors. He should have won the SX title as well, but had a bad crash at Oakland...followed by a terrible race at Salt Lake where Geico blew the entire teams set up (Both Eli and Zach could barely get through the whoops).

That said, KRs style clearly has transferred over to the 450 very well. I think that people who write off Tomac because of how he has not adjusted as quick are losing sight of the big picture. I think it will take him a bit longer to get it dialed and to adjust his style and technique. But when he does..watch out. There were races last year, outdoors, where the things Tomac was doing were right up there with RV. We will see that again. Tomac knows he has work to do. He knows he has to adjust is technique to suit the 450, but it takes time to get in the reps to change the way you do things unconsciously.

Let's not forget...we have not even seen ET on a 450 outdoors once.
Agree with this. I had my doubts about KRoc being able to adapt to be a top competitor in the 450 class and I also had Eli pegged as the rider that would make the biggest splash to his 450 debut. I was wrong this far.

I'm still an ET fan and think he's going to end up being the equivalent of RV and KRoc will be the equivalent of RD. I definitely think Honda has something going on that some riders can't agree with. It's probably a little more tough for ET to transition to a 450 while they're having whatever setup issues Barcia seems to be going through.

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