Wild idea about changing the scoring system?

jeffro503
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Edited Date/Time 8/20/2015 1:49am
I've been thinking about this for a few months now , and I know people have been mentioning different ideas and so forth to help mix things up , make them more exciting.

And I will say , the system we have now I think is pretty much perfect but what about this idea?

What if the leaders start getting into lappers. It's still another competitor out there to find your way around ( even though not as fast as the front guys ) But " what if " for every guy they lap , they get an extra point?

If 1st place laps up to 30th , he would get an extra 9 -10 points ( or how ever that works out ). It could make it more interesting in the races where a guy has a big lead and is just cruising , could give him incentive to keep pushing harder to get around more guys? OR , maybe get 1 extra point for every five guys? lap to 30th could give you an extra 2 points?

Maybe it's a dumb idea , i don't know , but I think it could make things a lot more challenging to the riders and more exciting for the fans.

What about you guys? What do you think we could do to make it more exciting? Besides alligator pits and fire rings. Smile
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jeffro503
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8/17/2015 9:37pm
That's a good point man. And I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here , but maybe just throw out some ideas.

Hey , a few years ago we never had a joker lane in the MEC , and I kinda dig that to be honest. Split lanes are great too. I'm thinking more along the lines of the points sytem and how we can make it more exciting for us , and more challenging for the riders. If anything , SX is what needs the help. Sick of 15min main events. Either do timed or add some laps! 15min's is ridiculous.
kongols
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8/17/2015 9:41pm
Team and manufacturer tactics would be in full effect. It would become mockery of the sport. Better kill it with a showel than do something like that.
Phillip_Lamb
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8/17/2015 10:25pm
Handing out points for everything little someone could possibly do out on the track ideas are getting out of hand. why not hand out points for every second the leader has on 2nd place. Tomac wouldve scored 100pts just at hangtown!

im kidding. its stupid. so is handing points for every little thing. only give points based on finish. keep it simple. if you make it complicated people get lost just trying to figure out who scored what, how they did it and why.

IF ANYTHING. hand out points based on finish. 1st place gets 1 point. 2 gets 2. Just like in the Des Nations. Rider with lowest score wins. This eliminates the weird gaps in the current scoring and hands out points all the way to last.
8/17/2015 10:53pm
Handing out points for everything little someone could possibly do out on the track ideas are getting out of hand. why not hand out points for...
Handing out points for everything little someone could possibly do out on the track ideas are getting out of hand. why not hand out points for every second the leader has on 2nd place. Tomac wouldve scored 100pts just at hangtown!

im kidding. its stupid. so is handing points for every little thing. only give points based on finish. keep it simple. if you make it complicated people get lost just trying to figure out who scored what, how they did it and why.

IF ANYTHING. hand out points based on finish. 1st place gets 1 point. 2 gets 2. Just like in the Des Nations. Rider with lowest score wins. This eliminates the weird gaps in the current scoring and hands out points all the way to last.
If you give out points based on people being lapped, what about people who fall over, crash DNF etc? It just leaves the door open for someone to run away with the championship. Also, why does it need to be exciting every second of the race? Motorsport isn't wheel to wheel all the time, regardless of what you're racing. Well, maybe in a spec series like Moto2 or Moto3 for example. All I hear when people say "it needs to be more exciting" is "let's punish the guy who is winning". The best way to improve the racing is to give people a fair shot. Pay the privateers more so they can train harder. Maybe require the factories to give support to X number of regular riders. Adding gimmicks like this would only try and hide the problems, not solve them.

The Shop

gt80rider
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8/17/2015 10:55pm
To me its about not having half the field 3 races down half way through the season. A guy in 4th place still should have a shot at the championship at the last race. That either means reworking the tracks and bikes to narrow the speed gap between first and fourth, or reworking the points system. A 100 point system (80 for 20th, 100 for 1st) would help make sure the 7th place guy isn't already 4 races behind 8 races into the season.
KDXGarage
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8/18/2015 12:10am
How about F1 scoring at least for SX:

FIA Formula 1 points are awarded as follows:

1st - 25 points
2nd -18
3rd - 15
4th -12
5th - 10
6th - 8
7th - 6
8th - 4
9th - 2
10th - 1

Reward winning!
Zracer
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8/18/2015 12:16am
KDXGarage wrote:
How about F1 scoring at least for SX: FIA Formula 1 points are awarded as follows: 1st - 25 points 2nd -18 3rd - 15 4th...
How about F1 scoring at least for SX:

FIA Formula 1 points are awarded as follows:

1st - 25 points
2nd -18
3rd - 15
4th -12
5th - 10
6th - 8
7th - 6
8th - 4
9th - 2
10th - 1

Reward winning!
Good idea. You just handed Dungey the title after race 10 of 17.
Motofinne
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8/18/2015 12:17am
KDXGarage wrote:
How about F1 scoring at least for SX: FIA Formula 1 points are awarded as follows: 1st - 25 points 2nd -18 3rd - 15 4th...
How about F1 scoring at least for SX:

FIA Formula 1 points are awarded as follows:

1st - 25 points
2nd -18
3rd - 15
4th -12
5th - 10
6th - 8
7th - 6
8th - 4
9th - 2
10th - 1

Reward winning!
The problem is if we have one guy that absolutely dominates(like Dungey this year). The championship would be over in round 10.
8/18/2015 12:27am
Just give them extra points when they lap into the top twenty , and give them the rider's points that they lap.
That way if you finish 20th but get lapped you don't get your point but the first one to lap you gets it.
Ricky would have gotten all the points at a certain mud race a few years ago.
Crush
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8/18/2015 12:30am
KDXGarage wrote:
How about F1 scoring at least for SX: FIA Formula 1 points are awarded as follows: 1st - 25 points 2nd -18 3rd - 15 4th...
How about F1 scoring at least for SX:

FIA Formula 1 points are awarded as follows:

1st - 25 points
2nd -18
3rd - 15
4th -12
5th - 10
6th - 8
7th - 6
8th - 4
9th - 2
10th - 1

Reward winning!
Motofinne wrote:
The problem is if we have one guy that absolutely dominates(like Dungey this year). The championship would be over in round 10.
We should be looking to pay more points further back so the guys who are at the back can sort themselves out...
fullfloater
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8/18/2015 12:39am Edited Date/Time 8/18/2015 12:40am
cheapsmack wrote:
Just give them extra points when they lap into the top twenty , and give them the rider's points that they lap. That way if you...
Just give them extra points when they lap into the top twenty , and give them the rider's points that they lap.
That way if you finish 20th but get lapped you don't get your point but the first one to lap you gets it.
Ricky would have gotten all the points at a certain mud race a few years ago.
That's a hilarious idea. 20th place and up does not get the blue flag because they have a legitimate reason to race with the leader - they are at risk of losing their points. Not safe or responsible but entertaining nonetheless.
jeffro503
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8/18/2015 8:18am
KDXGarage wrote:
How about F1 scoring at least for SX: FIA Formula 1 points are awarded as follows: 1st - 25 points 2nd -18 3rd - 15 4th...
How about F1 scoring at least for SX:

FIA Formula 1 points are awarded as follows:

1st - 25 points
2nd -18
3rd - 15
4th -12
5th - 10
6th - 8
7th - 6
8th - 4
9th - 2
10th - 1

Reward winning!
Motofinne wrote:
The problem is if we have one guy that absolutely dominates(like Dungey this year). The championship would be over in round 10.
Crush wrote:
We should be looking to pay more points further back so the guys who are at the back can sort themselves out...
I like that idea to Crush. Maybe 40 points for 1st , 1 point for 40th. Maybe some the privateers would fight harder if they knew they were getting points? I actually like that better than my idea.
RandyS
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8/18/2015 9:09am Edited Date/Time 8/18/2015 9:15am
jeffro503 wrote:
I like that idea to Crush. Maybe 40 points for 1st , 1 point for 40th. Maybe some the privateers would fight harder if they knew...
I like that idea to Crush. Maybe 40 points for 1st , 1 point for 40th. Maybe some the privateers would fight harder if they knew they were getting points? I actually like that better than my idea.
Plus one point for a holeshot, and one for fastest qualifier. That would give another way to spread out or tighten up the top 3. Maybe an additional point for a 1-1 also.

1st through 40th paying points wouldn't do much if anything for the top guys, but it would certainly make everyone on the gate race harder.

BMX changed from a 3 moto system to a transfer system for the amateurs in the 80s and at first everyone still raced for positions but after time a large portion of the riders on the gate don't push it past the first or second corner.
8/18/2015 9:27am Edited Date/Time 8/18/2015 9:28am
We need to change it to nascar style rules. That way motocross can be a deathly boring shitshow where no one gets passed, the last ten laps take four hours due to yellow flags, and half the season is pointless. Nothing left to do but count the money!
olds cool
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8/18/2015 9:30am
Alligator pits have already been done at Daytona back in the '70s. Fire rings are practically the only thing missing from the current SX circus. Smile
RCB33
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8/18/2015 9:40am
jeffro503 wrote:
I've been thinking about this for a few months now , and I know people have been mentioning different ideas and so forth to help mix...
I've been thinking about this for a few months now , and I know people have been mentioning different ideas and so forth to help mix things up , make them more exciting.

And I will say , the system we have now I think is pretty much perfect but what about this idea?

What if the leaders start getting into lappers. It's still another competitor out there to find your way around ( even though not as fast as the front guys ) But " what if " for every guy they lap , they get an extra point?

If 1st place laps up to 30th , he would get an extra 9 -10 points ( or how ever that works out ). It could make it more interesting in the races where a guy has a big lead and is just cruising , could give him incentive to keep pushing harder to get around more guys? OR , maybe get 1 extra point for every five guys? lap to 30th could give you an extra 2 points?

Maybe it's a dumb idea , i don't know , but I think it could make things a lot more challenging to the riders and more exciting for the fans.

What about you guys? What do you think we could do to make it more exciting? Besides alligator pits and fire rings. Smile
Anyone they lap in the top 20 equals one point, anyone they lap in the top ten is worth 2 points.
mxjordy127
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8/18/2015 9:45am Edited Date/Time 8/18/2015 9:47am
I don't care for the fact that a 1-2 and 2-1 score the same points i think an extra few point for the overall is needed. And maybe points for leading a lap or fastest qualifier
8/18/2015 9:48am
So, let me get this straight.

You want to shake up the points by awarding points to leaders who pass lappers. So, the same guys who run up front every week and score the most points will now be awarded even MORE points because theyre the ones doing all the lapping.

Instead of Dungey having a 25 point gap, he will now have a 50 point gap.

Genius.

This thread reminds me of that scene in Dodgeball where they are trying to come up with a way to pay the 50K they need to pay to keep Average Joe's Gym open.
rrdecals
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8/18/2015 9:53am
Just give points to every position. As is 21st is the same as 40th. If every position got points it would rattle things because a bad moto would have a much more drastic effect.. Also a guy that goes 18 - 18 would beat a guy that goes 5 - 32. The reason for two motos is to show consistency, so not scoring 21-40 defeats that whole purpose.
Flip109
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8/18/2015 10:35am
Make whoever is the current points leader ride a two-stroke!
jeffro503
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8/18/2015 11:06am Edited Date/Time 8/18/2015 11:06am
So, let me get this straight. You want to shake up the points by awarding points to leaders who pass lappers. So, the same guys who...
So, let me get this straight.

You want to shake up the points by awarding points to leaders who pass lappers. So, the same guys who run up front every week and score the most points will now be awarded even MORE points because theyre the ones doing all the lapping.

Instead of Dungey having a 25 point gap, he will now have a 50 point gap.

Genius.

This thread reminds me of that scene in Dodgeball where they are trying to come up with a way to pay the 50K they need to pay to keep Average Joe's Gym open.
Well , I'd like to know your ideas. Have any?
GuyB
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8/18/2015 11:11am Edited Date/Time 8/18/2015 11:20am
Let's give them appearance points (for showing up), and all go to Pizza Hut afterwards! Wink

I don't often agree with The Narrator, but I do think you're just extending the gap between the points leader and the pack.

For Supercross, everyone who makes the main gets points. In the outdoors, only 50% of the guys on the gate get points. For a lot of the top 40 qualifiers each week, scoring a handful of points in a year is a major accomplishment...but you also have half the field (20th on down), who have little incentive to keep pushing through the whole moto...or sometimes line up for the second one. That's a lot of work, expense, and risk for not much to show for it.

You could double the points scale for the outdoors (50 for first, 44 for second, etc.) so that everyone could earn points, but that would make Nationals about four times more valuable (two motos x double points) than a Supercross, and it's a big bonus for wins, which could stretch things out even further. I'm not sure that's the way to go.
8/18/2015 11:21am
So, let me get this straight. You want to shake up the points by awarding points to leaders who pass lappers. So, the same guys who...
So, let me get this straight.

You want to shake up the points by awarding points to leaders who pass lappers. So, the same guys who run up front every week and score the most points will now be awarded even MORE points because theyre the ones doing all the lapping.

Instead of Dungey having a 25 point gap, he will now have a 50 point gap.

Genius.

This thread reminds me of that scene in Dodgeball where they are trying to come up with a way to pay the 50K they need to pay to keep Average Joe's Gym open.
jeffro503 wrote:
Well , I'd like to know your ideas. Have any?
I'm not trying to cut your nuts up, bud. I have a few ideas to tighten up the points, but none of them have to do with the points themselves. there's nothing you can really do there, in my opinion. what we are doing is like this: 2+2=4 ...... yea, but... 3+1=4 and 4+0=4 !!!

Jaybird67k
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8/18/2015 11:38am
So, let me get this straight. You want to shake up the points by awarding points to leaders who pass lappers. So, the same guys who...
So, let me get this straight.

You want to shake up the points by awarding points to leaders who pass lappers. So, the same guys who run up front every week and score the most points will now be awarded even MORE points because theyre the ones doing all the lapping.

Instead of Dungey having a 25 point gap, he will now have a 50 point gap.

Genius.

This thread reminds me of that scene in Dodgeball where they are trying to come up with a way to pay the 50K they need to pay to keep Average Joe's Gym open.
Lol.......exactly !
There is nothing wrong with the points system or the excitement of the racing. Reward Winning !!
They want to and probably will go to a points chase like gay nascar did and then it rolled over into NHRA and screwed that all up. Mandatory pit stops, Joker Lanes, and resetting the points after a ways through the series is Gay.
All it does is not reward the ones who are better and work harder.
There is a reason their are Factory riders and Privateer riders...........think about it....you can figure it out.

Jason
HackMan162
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8/18/2015 1:22pm
Wonder what the points would look like if you got rid of the gaps. Instead of 25-22-20-18-17...., just make it 25-24-23 etc. In SX, last place (22nd) gets 4 points, and maybe everyone else who made the night show gets 3. In Nat'ls, 40-39-38, etc.
Pollock580
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8/18/2015 3:33pm
GuyB wrote:
Let's give them appearance points (for showing up), and all go to Pizza Hut afterwards! ;) I don't often agree with The Narrator, but I do...
Let's give them appearance points (for showing up), and all go to Pizza Hut afterwards! Wink

I don't often agree with The Narrator, but I do think you're just extending the gap between the points leader and the pack.

For Supercross, everyone who makes the main gets points. In the outdoors, only 50% of the guys on the gate get points. For a lot of the top 40 qualifiers each week, scoring a handful of points in a year is a major accomplishment...but you also have half the field (20th on down), who have little incentive to keep pushing through the whole moto...or sometimes line up for the second one. That's a lot of work, expense, and risk for not much to show for it.

You could double the points scale for the outdoors (50 for first, 44 for second, etc.) so that everyone could earn points, but that would make Nationals about four times more valuable (two motos x double points) than a Supercross, and it's a big bonus for wins, which could stretch things out even further. I'm not sure that's the way to go.
The Aussie nats kicks off with 35points and runs down to 30th on track with the same initial reductions as the current system. It's a great way to pay back the privateers for their efforts in getting to the races and qualifying but also leaves a buffer of 10 riders so they still need to race to earn their points. The current system was welcomed by the lower order guys as it helped them justify their effort and the effort of people supporting them.
Phillip_Lamb
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8/18/2015 3:41pm
KDXGarage wrote:
How about F1 scoring at least for SX: FIA Formula 1 points are awarded as follows: 1st - 25 points 2nd -18 3rd - 15 4th...
How about F1 scoring at least for SX:

FIA Formula 1 points are awarded as follows:

1st - 25 points
2nd -18
3rd - 15
4th -12
5th - 10
6th - 8
7th - 6
8th - 4
9th - 2
10th - 1

Reward winning!
Motofinne wrote:
The problem is if we have one guy that absolutely dominates(like Dungey this year). The championship would be over in round 10.
you all keep trying to fix something that cant be fixed. changing points wouldnt have stopped dungey from Destroying everyone this year and it wouldnt have stopped RC or RV. Sure the "points gap" would look smaller but if you stand real far away everything looks small.

THE ONLY way to give everyone a shot at the title is have ONE race that is counted. Everyone has the same points. None. but guess what Dungey would still win why cuz hes the fastest guy there.

Ill say it again the only true fair points system is based on Olympic scoring: 1 point for 1st, 2 for 2nd etc and the guy with the lowest score wins. No gimmicks, no extra "complete this side mission like a video game crap" points. this gives points based EXACTLY how someone finishes.
downard254
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8/18/2015 3:52pm
So, let me get this straight. You want to shake up the points by awarding points to leaders who pass lappers. So, the same guys who...
So, let me get this straight.

You want to shake up the points by awarding points to leaders who pass lappers. So, the same guys who run up front every week and score the most points will now be awarded even MORE points because theyre the ones doing all the lapping.

Instead of Dungey having a 25 point gap, he will now have a 50 point gap.

Genius.

This thread reminds me of that scene in Dodgeball where they are trying to come up with a way to pay the 50K they need to pay to keep Average Joe's Gym open.
"That's right Cotton, it will be much more difficult to see the ball coming blindfolded". Ha Ha, loved that movie.
jgmxdad251
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8/18/2015 4:02pm
I think the current points system works well but, what if they changed the second place points to 20 to make it meaningful to win or try and win?

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