Why manufacturers will never go back to two strokes

9/5/2014 11:21am
yep. showing up at the track on a YZ250, is like showing up for the first day of school with sneakers from walmart. at least for the average 17 yr old from the entitlement generation.

this also proves that the motorsports aspect of the sport has dwindled and been replaced by a certain fashionista aspect.
9/5/2014 1:11pm
TeamGreen wrote:
You guys are swimming in the same circle of ignorance & conjecture. The MFG co's did it for a reason that you guys are still NEVER...
You guys are swimming in the same circle of ignorance & conjecture. The MFG co's did it for a reason that you guys are still NEVER gonna get. It's out there...right in-front of your nose; but, it doesn't suit your rant.

Too funny.

they're faster, easier to ride, and people are still buying them?
I.never started riding because it was easy haha
Spartacus
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9/5/2014 2:13pm
TeamGreen wrote:
You guys are swimming in the same circle of ignorance & conjecture. The MFG co's did it for a reason that you guys are still NEVER...
You guys are swimming in the same circle of ignorance & conjecture. The MFG co's did it for a reason that you guys are still NEVER gonna get. It's out there...right in-front of your nose; but, it doesn't suit your rant.

Too funny.

they're faster, easier to ride, and people are still buying them?
I.never started riding because it was easy haha
So you race a Suzuki TM400?

The Shop

OldYZRider1
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9/5/2014 3:43pm
While manufacturers in general do sell what the market demands, in any "action sport" advertisers and magazines have a significant impact on what first time purchasers buy. New guys entering the sport don't want to be caught out with equipment and apparel they don't see being displayed in the magazines and what the pro's are racing. As pointed out this "poserdom" has only gotten worse with the increased use of social media.

I imagine the Japanese manufacturers paid US marketing firms some pretty good money to promote their four stroke engine agenda. They build machines for markets that do have environmental impact concerns so it probably makes sense for them to standardize on four stroke engines rather than investing capital and employing people to design, test and produce a relatively small quantity of high performance two stroke engines. It is technology that has few other outlets for use in today's world however its still can be viable and less expensive for small budget MX teams and weekend warriors. Thankfully KTM and other Euro manufacturers are continuing to develop them.

If the Japanese don't want to play that's their choice but its really hard to understand why the AMA/MX Sports doesn't even attempt to find a balance in the rules to allow them to compete together. To me that really just shows who's in charge of the rules of professional MX/SX; the manufacturers not the AMA/MX Sports. KTM's becoming a powerhouse so hopefully they'll be interested in allowing fair competition to exist between designs. Seems Decoster believes it should happen. But KTM's only one against the Japanese four (Yamaha's still selling them but not developing them so maybe they just haven';t depleted the parts bin yet?).

I know I'd really like to see a two stroke MX bike available for sale to the public proven in the pro MX ranks by top riders. You see "poserdom" still exists even for us mid-fifties riders Smile
gt80rider
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9/5/2014 3:52pm
'Why manufacturers will never go back to two strokes' because they'd rather kill the sport than admit they were wrong?
This is perhaps the most accurate message I've ever seen on a moto board..
9/5/2014 4:12pm
TeamGreen wrote:
You guys are swimming in the same circle of ignorance & conjecture. The MFG co's did it for a reason that you guys are still NEVER...
You guys are swimming in the same circle of ignorance & conjecture. The MFG co's did it for a reason that you guys are still NEVER gonna get. It's out there...right in-front of your nose; but, it doesn't suit your rant.

Too funny.

they're faster, easier to ride, and people are still buying them?
I.never started riding because it was easy haha
But you don't race a Hodaka because it's easier to ride a modern bike.
Travis_Hudson
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9/5/2014 5:00pm
yep. showing up at the track on a YZ250, is like showing up for the first day of school with sneakers from walmart. at least for...
yep. showing up at the track on a YZ250, is like showing up for the first day of school with sneakers from walmart. at least for the average 17 yr old from the entitlement generation.

this also proves that the motorsports aspect of the sport has dwindled and been replaced by a certain fashionista aspect.
This.
malachi177
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9/5/2014 5:29pm
TeamGreen wrote:
You guys are swimming in the same circle of ignorance & conjecture. The MFG co's did it for a reason that you guys are still NEVER...
You guys are swimming in the same circle of ignorance & conjecture. The MFG co's did it for a reason that you guys are still NEVER gonna get. It's out there...right in-front of your nose; but, it doesn't suit your rant.

Too funny.

Emissions?
harescrambled
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9/5/2014 7:13pm
What off road program? I love my Suzuki's, but I won't buy a new one because of that ridiculously small aluminum fuel tank. I haven't seen anyone who makes an oversize tank for the FI RMZ's. Not so good for harescrambled and GNCC
endurox
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9/5/2014 7:37pm
2 strokes are more fun to ride, 4 strokes are easier to ride
mxb2
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9/5/2014 7:53pm
What off road program? I love my Suzuki's, but I won't buy a new one because of that ridiculously small aluminum fuel tank. I haven't seen...
What off road program? I love my Suzuki's, but I won't buy a new one because of that ridiculously small aluminum fuel tank. I haven't seen anyone who makes an oversize tank for the FI RMZ's. Not so good for harescrambled and GNCC
IMS.com, fuel tanks for zooks and other brands.
TeamGreen
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9/5/2014 8:23pm
TeamGreen wrote:
You guys are swimming in the same circle of ignorance & conjecture. The MFG co's did it for a reason that you guys are still NEVER...
You guys are swimming in the same circle of ignorance & conjecture. The MFG co's did it for a reason that you guys are still NEVER gonna get. It's out there...right in-front of your nose; but, it doesn't suit your rant.

Too funny.

malachi177 wrote:
Emissions?
Yup!

Do you remember the Honda F1 cars wrapped in the "Earth" Graphics...just about the same time that they quit two-strokes?

Do you remember the various "Global Summits" on Climate Change and all that Carbon Credit BULLSHIT that was ABSOLUTELY TERRIFYING the Manufacturers?

Remember the run on certain Two-Stroke Hot-Rod Boat Motors...?

How many 2T Sno-Mos are left?

There are now some "Clean Two Strokes" and even a few injected 2T motos...

But, thumpers are considered the cleaner engine tech.
CASH476
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9/5/2014 10:32pm
CASH476 wrote:
If they still made only 2 strokes a 10 year old 2 stroke would also be worht nothing because no one would want them
Zracer wrote:
WTH? Yamahas selling 10 year old 2 strokes for over 6G a pop.
You are either very good at this or very bad at it. Either way, well done sir.
gt80rider
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9/6/2014 12:16am
TeamGreen wrote:
Yup! Do you remember the Honda F1 cars wrapped in the "Earth" Graphics...just about the same time that they quit two-strokes? Do you remember the various...
Yup!

Do you remember the Honda F1 cars wrapped in the "Earth" Graphics...just about the same time that they quit two-strokes?

Do you remember the various "Global Summits" on Climate Change and all that Carbon Credit BULLSHIT that was ABSOLUTELY TERRIFYING the Manufacturers?

Remember the run on certain Two-Stroke Hot-Rod Boat Motors...?

How many 2T Sno-Mos are left?

There are now some "Clean Two Strokes" and even a few injected 2T motos...

But, thumpers are considered the cleaner engine tech.
Emissions was not the reason they went to four strokes, it was the EXCUSE they used... there has been no significant emission regulations passed for dirt bikes since the big four told everyone it was "go to four strokes or have nothing to ride at all!"....

In my own true Vitard Couch-lete opinion, I would purely speculate that the bean counters at the big four thought they could make a somewhat higher margin on a 4 stroke over a 2 smoke... the decision was purely about profit margins, not about emissions...
9/6/2014 3:38am
TeamGreen wrote:
You guys are swimming in the same circle of ignorance & conjecture. The MFG co's did it for a reason that you guys are still NEVER...
You guys are swimming in the same circle of ignorance & conjecture. The MFG co's did it for a reason that you guys are still NEVER gonna get. It's out there...right in-front of your nose; but, it doesn't suit your rant.

Too funny.

malachi177 wrote:
Emissions?
TeamGreen wrote:
Yup! Do you remember the Honda F1 cars wrapped in the "Earth" Graphics...just about the same time that they quit two-strokes? Do you remember the various...
Yup!

Do you remember the Honda F1 cars wrapped in the "Earth" Graphics...just about the same time that they quit two-strokes?

Do you remember the various "Global Summits" on Climate Change and all that Carbon Credit BULLSHIT that was ABSOLUTELY TERRIFYING the Manufacturers?

Remember the run on certain Two-Stroke Hot-Rod Boat Motors...?

How many 2T Sno-Mos are left?

There are now some "Clean Two Strokes" and even a few injected 2T motos...

But, thumpers are considered the cleaner engine tech.
Ski doo has 600 and 800 2 strokes
Arctic cat 600 and 800
Polaris 600 and 800
But there are far more 4 st sleds being made these days. I have both and love the 4 stroke very reliable and great power. For those that want di on bikes just know that every di sled motor is a ticking time bomb none of them are nearly as reliable as the 4 stroke sled motors
YZ125H1
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9/6/2014 5:25am Edited Date/Time 9/6/2014 5:28am
Ski doo has 600 and 800 2 strokes Arctic cat 600 and 800 Polaris 600 and 800 But there are far more 4 st sleds being...
Ski doo has 600 and 800 2 strokes
Arctic cat 600 and 800
Polaris 600 and 800
But there are far more 4 st sleds being made these days. I have both and love the 4 stroke very reliable and great power. For those that want di on bikes just know that every di sled motor is a ticking time bomb none of them are nearly as reliable as the 4 stroke sled motors
The only problem with 4 stroke sleds is that with big HP it is way easier to blow belts. I would still say 2T and 4T sleds are roughly 50/50 by most brand (excluding Yam). The one advantage to 4 stroke sleds is for people who put several thousand miles or more on a year. They can get way more miles out of 4 stroke than any 2 stroke.
endurox
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9/6/2014 7:19am Edited Date/Time 9/6/2014 7:21am
You see more and more 2 strokes at OMC up here is Boise. A sea of orange 2 strokes rule the single track up here.
Yamaha sold more bikes in the US last year than Honda. Suzuki more that Kawasaki (MIC stats of registered bikes).
So maybe the japanese will not make 2 strokes except Yamaha. Times change.
Hard core enthusiasts will buy the best bike for the job. Husqvarna/KTM makes the best bike for the 35 plus crowd. E start and finally good suspension out of the box plus a 6 speed transmission are what riders want. European sales are up in the US, asian
sales are down since 2009 relative to the European bike manufactures.. Build what people want, not what the magazine ads tell you what you should have.



OW38B
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9/6/2014 7:39am Edited Date/Time 9/6/2014 7:40am
Evinrude's new 2 stroke and emissons

"Evinrude states the “clean-burning, fuel-efficient E-TEC G2 is the cleanest combustion outboard engine in the world,” with “75 percent fewer regulated emissions than competitive four-strokes,”
9/6/2014 7:43am
Ski doo has 600 and 800 2 strokes Arctic cat 600 and 800 Polaris 600 and 800 But there are far more 4 st sleds being...
Ski doo has 600 and 800 2 strokes
Arctic cat 600 and 800
Polaris 600 and 800
But there are far more 4 st sleds being made these days. I have both and love the 4 stroke very reliable and great power. For those that want di on bikes just know that every di sled motor is a ticking time bomb none of them are nearly as reliable as the 4 stroke sled motors
YZ125H1 wrote:
The only problem with 4 stroke sleds is that with big HP it is way easier to blow belts. I would still say 2T and 4T...
The only problem with 4 stroke sleds is that with big HP it is way easier to blow belts. I would still say 2T and 4T sleds are roughly 50/50 by most brand (excluding Yam). The one advantage to 4 stroke sleds is for people who put several thousand miles or more on a year. They can get way more miles out of 4 stroke than any 2 stroke.
Those big hp sleds you're talking about are putting out far more hp than any 2 strokes. I know when I go for a 200+ mile ride I feel far more comfortable taking my 4 stroke just like you said you can do many reliable miles. They just need to shave a few more pounds and it's not much and they will make the 2 stroke sleds obsolete. I have a 800 xrs ordered for this year that will be my sled for the days the trails are completely blown out the rest of the time I will be on my doo 1200
9/6/2014 7:48am
OW38B wrote:
[url=http://www.allatsea.net/evinrudes-e-tec-g2-is-cleanest-combustion-outboard-motor/]Evinrude's new 2 stroke and emissons[/url] [i][b]"Evinrude states the “clean-burning, fuel-efficient E-TEC G2 is the cleanest combustion outboard engine in the world,” with “75 percent fewer...
Evinrude's new 2 stroke and emissons

"Evinrude states the “clean-burning, fuel-efficient E-TEC G2 is the cleanest combustion outboard engine in the world,” with “75 percent fewer regulated emissions than competitive four-strokes,”
That's brp's etec technology. You wanna talk about a finicky time bomb. I'm telling you you don't want di dirt bike motors. Sensors for everything and they have far more issues, issues modifying motors and longevity has been a huge issue. This is the tech that skidoo snowmobiles use go look at all the issue they have with these motors and that's without dirt and the absolute beating a mx bike takes. Skidoo uses a regular carb motor for the race sleds if that tells you anything
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9/6/2014 7:59am Edited Date/Time 9/6/2014 8:09am
GrapeApe wrote:
What do you mean "back" to 2 strokes? There are 3 major manufacturers selling 2 strokes, currently, as well as some other boutique brands. 2 strokes...
What do you mean "back" to 2 strokes? There are 3 major manufacturers selling 2 strokes, currently, as well as some other boutique brands. 2 strokes, 4 strokes, all different configurations, there's a bike out there for everyone.
Preach on brotha! Ride what you want. Who gives a fuck? This whole 2 stroke vs 4 stroke thing is lame. Just ride what you want and go have fun. Who gives a fuck what others are riding. Get over it. It's the same people making these threads every few months.
Excaliburbmx
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9/6/2014 8:21am


I bought 4 kawasaki 2 strokes 4 pair tec 3 boots 4 sets of gear tools gas cans loading ramp for 6,000.

The whole family can ride and i can rebuild any of them for under 500.00 and they are all the bikes we will ever need.

One new kx450f is 8000.00
Cygnus
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9/6/2014 8:38am
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2014/09/06/64457/s1200_20140525_205950.jpg[/img] I bought 4 kawasaki 2 strokes 4 pair tec 3 boots 4 sets of gear tools gas cans loading ramp for 6,000. The whole family...


I bought 4 kawasaki 2 strokes 4 pair tec 3 boots 4 sets of gear tools gas cans loading ramp for 6,000.

The whole family can ride and i can rebuild any of them for under 500.00 and they are all the bikes we will ever need.

One new kx450f is 8000.00
Cool story Bro! Now paint that pink frame ASAP!
Katoomey
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9/6/2014 8:41am
This thread is useless. There are more manuacturers making smokers than there are not making them. And although most are billed as "enduro" bikes, all of them could be adapted for moto use with a revalve and stiffer springs. They all have modern ergonomics and fire breathing 250cc engines.
CRF505
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9/6/2014 8:42am Edited Date/Time 9/6/2014 8:44am
GrapeApe wrote:
What do you mean "back" to 2 strokes? There are 3 major manufacturers selling 2 strokes, currently, as well as some other boutique brands. 2 strokes...
What do you mean "back" to 2 strokes? There are 3 major manufacturers selling 2 strokes, currently, as well as some other boutique brands. 2 strokes, 4 strokes, all different configurations, there's a bike out there for everyone.
Jarid332 wrote:
Preach on brotha! Ride what you want. Who gives a fuck? This whole 2 stroke vs 4 stroke thing is lame. Just ride what you want...
Preach on brotha! Ride what you want. Who gives a fuck? This whole 2 stroke vs 4 stroke thing is lame. Just ride what you want and go have fun. Who gives a fuck what others are riding. Get over it. It's the same people making these threads every few months.
Amen to both of your comments. This thread is filled with ignorance. I used to think "a dirt bike was a dirt bike" and "why can't we all just get along?", but Vital MX has literally made me hate two strokes and the majority of two stroke riders.

I have a question for you 2 stroke slappys though.... if your 10 yr old 2 stroke is so great, or the brand new four strokes are too expensive, then why do you care what the manufacturers sell off the dealership floors? You're not buying them anyway.

Peace out. I'm headed to the dealership with a smile on my face to buy my second brand new 4 stroke. #thumpthumpthump
MxKing809
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9/6/2014 8:50am
*** Honda produces modern 250- 2 stroke***

"BUT KTM MAKES A 125, 150, 200, 300 2-Stoke, C'MON HONDA!! GOD...."

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