Why i don't trust first impressions

mxwrench66
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mxwrench66
http://racerxonline.com/2008/09/12/2009-honda-crf450r-first-ride

Sounds pretty identical to every 2017 review I read. New bikes on one of the best tracks in the world with no bumps or ruts. It's going to be awesome no matter what you're on.
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tobz
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tobz 10/31/2016 6:55am
10/31/2016 6:55am
It's pretty much why the magazines get invited out to these model launches to do their "first impressions"
CarlinoJoeVideo
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CarlinoJoeVideo 10/31/2016 7:17am
10/31/2016 7:17am
But you have to take them for what they are, "a first impression". Imagine you rode the bike 1 day and explained the bike to your buddy.

The shoot outs seem to be the more in depth and multi day tests. Or like Ping is doing with Racer X "dialed in" is multiple days on the bike and a good baseline setting to start with.
yz133rider
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yz133rider 10/31/2016 7:19am
10/31/2016 7:19am
LMAO - same thing with the then new 2010 yz450f. I remember transworld did a test against the 09 and they were several seconds per lap fast on the 10. Even had a current factory pro ride his race bike against the 10 and he "loved" the 10.

Preconceived notions seem to matter more than anything.
RG1
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RG1 10/31/2016 7:34am
10/31/2016 7:34am
To me the fact that Roczen managed to jump on the bike and after a week or so go and pretty much dominate at the Monster Cup tells me more than a journalists first impression. That's nothing against the journalists, and I know that the bike Roczen is riding is not the same as a stock bike, but if the bike was terrible, I'm not sure he would be able to jump on it and be so good so soon. Just my opinion

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HenryA
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HenryA 10/31/2016 7:46am
10/31/2016 7:46am
I'm one of the few that acutally liked the 09 but it cracks me up when they described the handling on the 09 as "unreal". Laughing
bvm111
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bvm111 10/31/2016 7:59am
10/31/2016 7:59am
That 1997 CR250 was revolutionary as well... so I bought the 1998 and, well, Honda fooled me once is all I can say!!!!!
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Motofinne 10/31/2016 8:03am
10/31/2016 8:03am Edited Date/Time 10/31/2016 10:17am
Didn't Racer X have a actual Honda dealer(yes you read that right) that has been on Hondas since 05 do their first impression video?

Any credibility out the door right away.

I think all these test and shootouts are plain stupid. Wanna know how good or bad a bike is? Go ride one. That is the only way to know what you as a person think about a bike.

The dialed in series that Ping does is a great concept. He tells what he thinks you should or could do on a stock bike that you own. Although i would like to see more variation of bikes and models.
omalley
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omalley 10/31/2016 8:17am
10/31/2016 8:17am
bvm111 wrote:
That 1997 CR250 was revolutionary as well... so I bought the 1998 and, well, Honda fooled me once is all I can say!!!!!
Lol, I got suckered into the '97. Sold it after five rides, switched to Kawi until the '02 model. That first gen frame sucked. Bad.
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Bramlett321 10/31/2016 10:10am
10/31/2016 10:10am
Unreal I agree with what you said exactly!!! it's just like listening to Keefer bash the shit out of the 4CS fork when that is not a true representation of the situation. It is simply his opinion which I appreciate and I'm a big fan of Keefer, but after riding a '16 KTM vs. the earlier versions of the same fork I think his comments are way off. Just my opinion as we say ..... just pin it and it'll be fine.
MotoX85
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MotoX85 10/31/2016 10:42am
10/31/2016 10:42am Edited Date/Time 10/31/2016 10:42am
Well consider the source, Honda could put square wheels on and RacerX would say it was smooth as silk.

I mean its pretty easy these days to see which mags are being paid by which manufacturers.

TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 10/31/2016 10:46am
10/31/2016 10:46am
Motofinne wrote:
Didn't Racer X have a actual Honda dealer(yes you read that right) that has been on Hondas since 05 do their first impression video? Any credibility...
Didn't Racer X have a actual Honda dealer(yes you read that right) that has been on Hondas since 05 do their first impression video?

Any credibility out the door right away.

I think all these test and shootouts are plain stupid. Wanna know how good or bad a bike is? Go ride one. That is the only way to know what you as a person think about a bike.

The dialed in series that Ping does is a great concept. He tells what he thinks you should or could do on a stock bike that you own. Although i would like to see more variation of bikes and models.
The rider's family has a Multi-Line Dealership: Honda, Yamaha & Kawasaki. He also commented that he hadn't ridden the New KTM & he's heard great things about it.
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ML512 10/31/2016 11:00am
10/31/2016 11:00am Edited Date/Time 11/1/2016 4:38pm
Just to clarify, Honda admitted that they brought pre-production bikes to that intro in 2009 and I've had a few people that were involved with that testing phase that mentioned a few things changed before the bike went to production that were definitely a negative.

I think the majority of the media groups covered it in our videos that we were at a new track/amazing track and we were looking forward to getting it back to somewhere we spin more laps for comparison.
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Beast666 10/31/2016 11:00am
10/31/2016 11:00am
bvm111 wrote:
That 1997 CR250 was revolutionary as well... so I bought the 1998 and, well, Honda fooled me once is all I can say!!!!!
omalley wrote:
Lol, I got suckered into the '97. Sold it after five rides, switched to Kawi until the '02 model. That first gen frame sucked. Bad.
I had a deposit on a 97 until I had a chance to ride a friends. called up the dealer and told him I was no longer interested as I had a chance to ride that "Roach"!!!! The dealer refunded me the deposit as he had several more suckers below me on the list and only was allocated 8 bikes I was #7 on the list.
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GuyB 10/31/2016 11:54am
10/31/2016 11:54am
YellowZonker 10/31/2016 11:55am
10/31/2016 11:55am
I find it funny that you often don't find out the truth about a bike until the following year's review in a magazine. So often they rave about a new model the first year and the review the following year says all the stuff that wasn't good or they didn't like. Where was that info last year?
bvm111
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bvm111 10/31/2016 12:24pm
10/31/2016 12:24pm
bvm111 wrote:
That 1997 CR250 was revolutionary as well... so I bought the 1998 and, well, Honda fooled me once is all I can say!!!!!
omalley wrote:
Lol, I got suckered into the '97. Sold it after five rides, switched to Kawi until the '02 model. That first gen frame sucked. Bad.
That's the same reason I ride Kawi to this day... I LOVED my 2000 KX250!!!!!
omalley
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omalley 10/31/2016 12:32pm
10/31/2016 12:32pm
I may be in the minority here, but I guess I am failing to see why the new CRF is such a big deal to begin with. Yes, I get that it's all-new, but it doesn't have anything revolutionary and it actually went backwards (in a good way) with the spring forks. Yes, electric start is an option, but it has been standard on KTM for years. At the end of the day it's a clean slate design with the same parts as any other bike-450 EFI engine, modern design and suspension, blah blah. It almost seems like the hype was self-generated by keeping it a secret rather than anything truly new under the sun.
omalley
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omalley 10/31/2016 12:37pm
10/31/2016 12:37pm
bvm111 wrote:
That 1997 CR250 was revolutionary as well... so I bought the 1998 and, well, Honda fooled me once is all I can say!!!!!
omalley wrote:
Lol, I got suckered into the '97. Sold it after five rides, switched to Kawi until the '02 model. That first gen frame sucked. Bad.
bvm111 wrote:
That's the same reason I ride Kawi to this day... I LOVED my 2000 KX250!!!!!
The funny part was we (dad and I) had deposits on 2 98 YZ250's. I had ridden a 97, and thought it was good enough to get away from Honda's frame debacle. A week or two before we were supposed to get them, a buddy got a 98 KX250. I took five laps on it (bone stock), came back to the truck and said "Dad, we need to cancel the YZ's and get this bike." That KX was quite possibly my favorite bike ever.

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DrinkMoreWater 10/31/2016 1:39pm
10/31/2016 1:39pm Edited Date/Time 10/31/2016 1:41pm
RG1 wrote:
To me the fact that Roczen managed to jump on the bike and after a week or so go and pretty much dominate at the Monster...
To me the fact that Roczen managed to jump on the bike and after a week or so go and pretty much dominate at the Monster Cup tells me more than a journalists first impression. That's nothing against the journalists, and I know that the bike Roczen is riding is not the same as a stock bike, but if the bike was terrible, I'm not sure he would be able to jump on it and be so good so soon. Just my opinion
Roczen would dominate on any brand.

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OldYZRider1 10/31/2016 2:26pm
10/31/2016 2:26pm
omalley wrote:
I may be in the minority here, but I guess I am failing to see why the new CRF is such a big deal to begin...
I may be in the minority here, but I guess I am failing to see why the new CRF is such a big deal to begin with. Yes, I get that it's all-new, but it doesn't have anything revolutionary and it actually went backwards (in a good way) with the spring forks. Yes, electric start is an option, but it has been standard on KTM for years. At the end of the day it's a clean slate design with the same parts as any other bike-450 EFI engine, modern design and suspension, blah blah. It almost seems like the hype was self-generated by keeping it a secret rather than anything truly new under the sun.
I tend to feel that the production rule here in the states contributes to the bikes from all manufacturers being designed basically the same. Its much easier/efficient/cheaper for teams to hire top talent if all the machines in the series are reasonably similar to each other. As a result a teams new rider doesn't need as much track time to get comfortable with the bike and start getting results (Roczen for example). Riders risk of injury maybe reduced too.

Look how well KTM has done acquiring talent since they dropped the PDS system and went back to a link like everyone else. They had some pretty good results with the PDS bikes (Alessi, Brayton) but there was certainly a lot of negative talk about them being different. I surely think Yamaha is learning this lesson too with the lackluster results of their "backward" YZ450f design (although the 250 is good). This "too different" thinking may explain some of the lack of interest among teams for "fair" inclusion of the two strokes in the professional ranks.

Maybe I'm just jaded though since today's advancements to me seem pretty bland and slow paced compared to the rapid pace of MX bike evolution witnessed during the late '70's, early '80's with the ultra trick "works" bikes. Bikes actually would be obsolete in a few months back in those days.
nascarnate326 10/31/2016 3:15pm
10/31/2016 3:15pm
omalley wrote:
I may be in the minority here, but I guess I am failing to see why the new CRF is such a big deal to begin...
I may be in the minority here, but I guess I am failing to see why the new CRF is such a big deal to begin with. Yes, I get that it's all-new, but it doesn't have anything revolutionary and it actually went backwards (in a good way) with the spring forks. Yes, electric start is an option, but it has been standard on KTM for years. At the end of the day it's a clean slate design with the same parts as any other bike-450 EFI engine, modern design and suspension, blah blah. It almost seems like the hype was self-generated by keeping it a secret rather than anything truly new under the sun.
OldYZRider1 wrote:
I tend to feel that the production rule here in the states contributes to the bikes from all manufacturers being designed basically the same. Its much...
I tend to feel that the production rule here in the states contributes to the bikes from all manufacturers being designed basically the same. Its much easier/efficient/cheaper for teams to hire top talent if all the machines in the series are reasonably similar to each other. As a result a teams new rider doesn't need as much track time to get comfortable with the bike and start getting results (Roczen for example). Riders risk of injury maybe reduced too.

Look how well KTM has done acquiring talent since they dropped the PDS system and went back to a link like everyone else. They had some pretty good results with the PDS bikes (Alessi, Brayton) but there was certainly a lot of negative talk about them being different. I surely think Yamaha is learning this lesson too with the lackluster results of their "backward" YZ450f design (although the 250 is good). This "too different" thinking may explain some of the lack of interest among teams for "fair" inclusion of the two strokes in the professional ranks.

Maybe I'm just jaded though since today's advancements to me seem pretty bland and slow paced compared to the rapid pace of MX bike evolution witnessed during the late '70's, early '80's with the ultra trick "works" bikes. Bikes actually would be obsolete in a few months back in those days.
Direct injection or turbo is the only thing they can really do and at this point..both 250 and 450 have amazing engines with plenty of power for 95% of bikes sold.

If you want future..look to electricity.
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Moto520 10/31/2016 4:36pm
10/31/2016 4:36pm
Good point with the original poster. Although I pretty much felt the same way about the 2009 (I got it as a 2012 but same chassis) as the referenced review. I really loved that bike even more as a 250f (which I still have).

I'm so tied in knots about getting this 2017. I have a 2016 Ktm 450sxf and I really don't see how they can make a bike better than that but time will tell.
inthebadboycorner 10/31/2016 4:46pm
10/31/2016 4:46pm
bvm111 wrote:
That 1997 CR250 was revolutionary as well... so I bought the 1998 and, well, Honda fooled me once is all I can say!!!!!
omalley wrote:
Lol, I got suckered into the '97. Sold it after five rides, switched to Kawi until the '02 model. That first gen frame sucked. Bad.
Beast666 wrote:
I had a deposit on a 97 until I had a chance to ride a friends. called up the dealer and told him I was no...
I had a deposit on a 97 until I had a chance to ride a friends. called up the dealer and told him I was no longer interested as I had a chance to ride that "Roach"!!!! The dealer refunded me the deposit as he had several more suckers below me on the list and only was allocated 8 bikes I was #7 on the list.
Same here, except my friends got theirs first and they were devastated.
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brimx153 10/31/2016 6:57pm
10/31/2016 6:57pm
YellowZonker wrote:
I find it funny that you often don't find out the truth about a bike until the following year's review in a magazine. So often they...
I find it funny that you often don't find out the truth about a bike until the following year's review in a magazine. So often they rave about a new model the first year and the review the following year says all the stuff that wasn't good or they didn't like. Where was that info last year?
x2 . in most mag i read in 2010 about the Yam 450 , it was the best bike ever built won all the shootouts ,next year .same bike finished last in all the shootouts .. I honestly think if JS7 won every race on the yam . everyone would of loved it .its to hard to find people who are unbiased imo (unless there pros ,but is that a real world test for the 95% of people buying them) . Plus certain bike s suit different riders . Shootouts are a thing of the past imo . and anyone choosing a bike on one is plain stupid . I like the vid s vital and racer x do , where they just say what they like and what they dont like about each bike . Plus not having how much each bike costs counted into the shootout is something i think they should do. Ever car test i have ever seen done the price is alway s a factor .
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JeepnMike 10/31/2016 10:36pm
10/31/2016 10:36pm
To think that in the 80s and 90s, the shootouts in MXA were the absolute source for knowing what to buy.
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51xc 11/1/2016 2:41am
11/1/2016 2:41am Edited Date/Time 11/1/2016 2:43am
RG1 wrote:
To me the fact that Roczen managed to jump on the bike and after a week or so go and pretty much dominate at the Monster...
To me the fact that Roczen managed to jump on the bike and after a week or so go and pretty much dominate at the Monster Cup tells me more than a journalists first impression. That's nothing against the journalists, and I know that the bike Roczen is riding is not the same as a stock bike, but if the bike was terrible, I'm not sure he would be able to jump on it and be so good so soon. Just my opinion
edit; I quoted the wrong person^^^^

their is obviously a lot of hype for the new honda and honda spends a lot money to let everyone know about their new bike but so far, all I see is how bad ass that new ktm was 2 years ago. it's not like honda came out with something groundbreaking. they just managed to get on ktm's level as it seems.
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yz133rider 11/1/2016 4:45am
11/1/2016 4:45am
Moto520 wrote:
Good point with the original poster. Although I pretty much felt the same way about the 2009 (I got it as a 2012 but same chassis)...
Good point with the original poster. Although I pretty much felt the same way about the 2009 (I got it as a 2012 but same chassis) as the referenced review. I really loved that bike even more as a 250f (which I still have).

I'm so tied in knots about getting this 2017. I have a 2016 Ktm 450sxf and I really don't see how they can make a bike better than that but time will tell.
Personally seeing how substantially improved and revised the new ktms are I can't see that Honda being a big improvement at all. Maybe somewhat on par finally.
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dcg141 11/1/2016 7:48am
11/1/2016 7:48am Edited Date/Time 11/1/2016 8:10am
Moto520 wrote:
Good point with the original poster. Although I pretty much felt the same way about the 2009 (I got it as a 2012 but same chassis)...
Good point with the original poster. Although I pretty much felt the same way about the 2009 (I got it as a 2012 but same chassis) as the referenced review. I really loved that bike even more as a 250f (which I still have).

I'm so tied in knots about getting this 2017. I have a 2016 Ktm 450sxf and I really don't see how they can make a bike better than that but time will tell.
All else being equal why would you give up 10 lbs and e start? You could put e start on but now your even heavier.
potatoflake
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potatoflake 11/1/2016 8:21am
11/1/2016 8:21am
They're all excited about a bike that's been hyped up for over a year what else do you expect?
fordo-197 11/1/2016 8:50am
11/1/2016 8:50am
dcg141 wrote:
All else being equal why would you give up 10 lbs and e start? You could put e start on but now your even heavier.
this ^ for me the weight of the bike compared to the ktm is a fail and by the time the next crf comes out in 4 years time it will probably be 25lbs heavier.

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