Why did they outlaw Trials bikes in Endurocross?

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Edited Date/Time 2/21/2012 5:58pm
As the topic says, why did they outlaw them? were they setting the world on fire?
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TerryB
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TerryB 2/20/2012 1:48pm
2/20/2012 1:48pm
Interesting. I don't follow Endurocross closely enough to know the arguments on either side that would have inspired this rule, and wasn't even aware of the rule 'til you just posted this. Sounds bogus to me, though.
Pdub
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Pdub 2/20/2012 1:54pm
2/20/2012 1:54pm
My guess is, most of the dealers here sell enduro bikes, so that's what they want to promote.
Big Tex27
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Big Tex27 2/20/2012 1:56pm
2/20/2012 1:56pm
Pdub wrote:
My guess is, most of the dealers here sell enduro bikes, so that's what they want to promote.
as what he said and the weight difference would seem pretty logical..
neverwas
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neverwas 2/20/2012 1:58pm
2/20/2012 1:58pm
Last time I was at an Endurocross (last round Vegas 2010 ) they had a trials bike only class.
Why they split them up I am not sure.

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jamma10
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jamma10 2/20/2012 2:07pm
2/20/2012 2:07pm Edited Date/Time 2/20/2012 2:08pm
You wouldn't take a Trials bike on a three hour+ Enduro, so why should you be allowed to ride one at an indoor Endurocross event with all the advantages it would have over proper Enduro bikes?
newmann
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newmann 2/20/2012 2:10pm
2/20/2012 2:10pm Edited Date/Time 2/20/2012 2:19pm
Uh, because the call it "Enduro"cross would be my first guess. The fact that they let someone in on a trials bike in the first place seemed pretty stupid to me. Trials riders are badass on that type of terrain.
Sparkalounger
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Sparkalounger 2/20/2012 2:21pm
2/20/2012 2:21pm
jamma10 wrote:
You wouldn't take a Trials bike on a three hour+ Enduro, so why should you be allowed to ride one at an indoor Endurocross event with...
You wouldn't take a Trials bike on a three hour+ Enduro, so why should you be allowed to ride one at an indoor Endurocross event with all the advantages it would have over proper Enduro bikes?
You sure could, most all of the manufactures make long ride kits with seats....
BTW, i'm really irritable this afternoon... i ready to argue about anything, bring it on, lol Evil
no really, i'm pissy... Angry
dcg141
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dcg141 2/20/2012 2:31pm
2/20/2012 2:31pm Edited Date/Time 2/20/2012 2:31pm
I believe the biggest reason is that Maxxis is the title sponsor and they do not make a trials tire. Trials tires are a big advantage on the rock sections.
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jamma10 2/20/2012 2:32pm
2/20/2012 2:32pm Edited Date/Time 2/20/2012 2:33pm
jamma10 wrote:
You wouldn't take a Trials bike on a three hour+ Enduro, so why should you be allowed to ride one at an indoor Endurocross event with...
You wouldn't take a Trials bike on a three hour+ Enduro, so why should you be allowed to ride one at an indoor Endurocross event with all the advantages it would have over proper Enduro bikes?
Sparkalounger wrote:
You sure could, most all of the manufactures make long ride kits with seats.... BTW, i'm really irritable this afternoon... i ready to argue about anything...
You sure could, most all of the manufactures make long ride kits with seats....
BTW, i'm really irritable this afternoon... i ready to argue about anything, bring it on, lol Evil
no really, i'm pissy... Angry
Gearing...?

Smile I think you know what I was getting at, Im with newman on this.
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GuyB 2/20/2012 2:34pm
2/20/2012 2:34pm
dcg141 wrote:
I believe the biggest reason is that Maxxis is the title sponsor and they do not make a trials tire. Trials tires are a big advantage...
I believe the biggest reason is that Maxxis is the title sponsor and they do not make a trials tire. Trials tires are a big advantage on the rock sections.
Were. They have to use regular knobs now.
Sparkalounger
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Sparkalounger 2/20/2012 2:39pm
2/20/2012 2:39pm
dcg141 wrote:
I believe the biggest reason is that Maxxis is the title sponsor and they do not make a trials tire. Trials tires are a big advantage...
I believe the biggest reason is that Maxxis is the title sponsor and they do not make a trials tire. Trials tires are a big advantage on the rock sections.
GuyB wrote:
Were. They have to use regular knobs now.
correct. one could put a knobby on a trials bike though...
i have not read the rules, i wonder if they implemented a weight rule? That would make the most sense to me, 75 pounds is a big advantage..
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newmann 2/20/2012 2:50pm
2/20/2012 2:50pm
Sparkalounger wrote:
correct. one could put a knobby on a trials bike though... i have not read the rules, i wonder if they implemented a weight rule? That...
correct. one could put a knobby on a trials bike though...
i have not read the rules, i wonder if they implemented a weight rule? That would make the most sense to me, 75 pounds is a big advantage..
According to the Vitalites, a heavier bike is much better. Duh..
TerryB
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TerryB 2/20/2012 3:03pm
2/20/2012 3:03pm
newmann wrote:
According to the Vitalites, a heavier bike is much better. Duh..
When the Kool-Aid drinkers drink the Kool-Aid, they quaff deeply.
mmcmx
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mmcmx 2/20/2012 3:04pm
2/20/2012 3:04pm
It's such a shocker you have to ride an enduro bike in an enduro race?
TerryB
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TerryB 2/20/2012 3:24pm
2/20/2012 3:24pm
mmcmx wrote:
It's such a shocker you have to ride an enduro bike in an enduro race?
In an "Enduro" race, maybe. But other than the word "enduro" being in the title, it is far from it, and one could argue that obstacle-wise, it has a lot more in common with trials. A one-off specialty event that caught on, and in fact trials bikes were previously included. So the change, to me, seems like somebody's sour-grapes.
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mmcmx 2/20/2012 4:32pm
2/20/2012 4:32pm
mmcmx wrote:
It's such a shocker you have to ride an enduro bike in an enduro race?
TerryB wrote:
In an "Enduro" race, maybe. But other than the word "enduro" being in the title, it is far from it, and one could argue that obstacle-wise...
In an "Enduro" race, maybe. But other than the word "enduro" being in the title, it is far from it, and one could argue that obstacle-wise, it has a lot more in common with trials. A one-off specialty event that caught on, and in fact trials bikes were previously included. So the change, to me, seems like somebody's sour-grapes.
Well it was designed to bring enduro bikes to the stadiums. It was a surprise trials riders turned up.
MtnBoy
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MtnBoy 2/20/2012 4:40pm
2/20/2012 4:40pm
Two fold...

1. Maxxis is the title sponsor and they don't make tires for Trials bikes

2. It's an unfair advantage, Endurocross tracks are designed to be challenging to race on a regular motorcycle, the obstacles aren't designed to be challenging for a trials bike.
RandyS
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RandyS 2/20/2012 7:02pm
2/20/2012 7:02pm
None of the big 5 make trials bikes. Why would they want a couple of US distributors with a handful of employees each if that dominating a series that they are trying to grow.

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wildbill
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wildbill 2/20/2012 10:20pm
2/20/2012 10:20pm
ever try to seat bounce a trials bike?
rangot
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rangot 2/21/2012 12:18am
2/21/2012 12:18am
Last year i think, Toni Bou (trial rider) and Ivan Cervantès (enduro) did a one lap race just for fun. Bou smoked Ivan BIG TIME. With the trial bike, you don't even need to touch the logs, for example, you just fly over. Unfair advantage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ-BxhxnbI4
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DrSweden 2/21/2012 5:14am
2/21/2012 5:14am
rangot wrote:
Last year i think, Toni Bou (trial rider) and Ivan Cervantès (enduro) did a one lap race just for fun. Bou smoked Ivan BIG TIME. With...
Last year i think, Toni Bou (trial rider) and Ivan Cervantès (enduro) did a one lap race just for fun. Bou smoked Ivan BIG TIME. With the trial bike, you don't even need to touch the logs, for example, you just fly over. Unfair advantage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ-BxhxnbI4
Holy crap, that's just depressing, and the quads beats us on track as well... I guess supercross we still "rule"?
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mjskier 2/21/2012 5:22am
2/21/2012 5:22am
The first year, Geoff Aaron (google him if you don't know who he is) was on a trial bike at the Denver endurocross. He finished second.
The second year he was on a 2wd christini (which is a huge advantage in the rocks) and he was still mostly second.
Now he is on a "regular" bike and he still finishes second.
So for the top riders, I don't think it makes that much difference. But for the almost champs, the difference is huge, mostly because you aren't going to be dog tired at the end of the first lap.
So I don't think there is any huge conspiracy. If you want to make a competition fair, you need some sort of equipment parity.
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rangot 2/21/2012 6:48am
2/21/2012 6:48am
You mean Cody Webb? I don't know what he races in the USA, but he was on a Beta in Italy this week-end. 4th at the Hell's Gate race, which is a very good result.
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Sparkalounger 2/21/2012 6:50am
2/21/2012 6:50am
Well he did last year (2011). (not as good of results as compared to 2010)
so yes, he may now be a Beta sponsored rider.
my apologies...
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adamdf 2/21/2012 7:00am
2/21/2012 7:00am
newmann wrote:
Uh, because the call it "Enduro"cross would be my first guess. The fact that they let someone in on a trials bike in the first place...
Uh, because the call it "Enduro"cross would be my first guess. The fact that they let someone in on a trials bike in the first place seemed pretty stupid to me. Trials riders are badass on that type of terrain.
x10000
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kardy 2/21/2012 7:06am
2/21/2012 7:06am
Sparkalounger wrote:
Well he did last year (2011). (not as good of results as compared to 2010) so yes, he may now be a Beta sponsored rider. my...
Well he did last year (2011). (not as good of results as compared to 2010)
so yes, he may now be a Beta sponsored rider.
my apologies...
No he didn't. He was on a Beta last year. Aaron was on a Geico Honda though.
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Sparkalounger 2/21/2012 7:34am
2/21/2012 7:34am
Sparkalounger wrote:
Well he did last year (2011). (not as good of results as compared to 2010) so yes, he may now be a Beta sponsored rider. my...
Well he did last year (2011). (not as good of results as compared to 2010)
so yes, he may now be a Beta sponsored rider.
my apologies...
kardy wrote:
No he didn't. He was on a Beta last year. Aaron was on a Geico Honda though.
you are absolutely right and i suck... Silly
looks like i got a few trials riders mixed up.
Thanks for clearing it up.
Jakes Dad
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Jakes Dad 2/21/2012 7:44am
2/21/2012 7:44am
They don't want another episode of some shmuck showing up in a 1980 Pontiac 4 door with his trials bike in the trunk and winning the heat with all the factory guys around. Happened a few years ago if I remember correctly.
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LowPsi 2/21/2012 8:22am
2/21/2012 8:22am
The rules say no trials tires and a minimum 55 inch wheelbase. Most trials bikes have a 52 inch wheelbase.

I am sure it was a business decision.:

The big teams don't want those pesky trials bikes making their enduro bikes look bad.

The promoters want a good show and the trials bikes make the course look easy, even boring.

It would take a much more radical course to challenge the trials guys. It was good that they gave them their own class.

I am a trials rider and I have to admit that the show is better on Enduro bikes. EX is chaos, that's what makes it exciting, the lead changes, the crashes, the tip overs. Its why they grease a pig....it makes it hard to catch.

On the upside, Endurocross and the Extreme Enduros (Hells Gate, Erzberg....) have created job opportunities for trials riders....Taddy, Jarvis, Lampkin all have extended their careers. Guys like Cody Webb are now a double threat Trials and EX

The crossover skill exchange has been good for everyone. Our off roaders are much more trials savy now . also the average trail riders are using trials tires off road and this is a win win.
OldYZRider1
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OldYZRider1 2/21/2012 8:39am
2/21/2012 8:39am
I think the trials bike is an advantage, very easy to muscle around especially in the rocky corners. If somebody screws up in front of you, you can plant a foot, wheelie the bike up and set the front wheel down where you want it and be on your way. Endurocross is pretty cool, lots of chaos! The track is a great equalizer; even a good start is no guarantee of a win.

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