Why can't we get paid?

JoJmoto
Posts
1776
Joined
11/8/2006
Location
Clarkesville, GA US
Edited Date/Time 5/12/2015 8:10am


A friend of mine is pretty big into Karting, as we all are into moto. His son, whom I think is about 13 year old, just brought home $12,000. at this big race they were at. My oldest son used to kart a couple years ago at the local level. He was 13 then and would win anywhere from $20-100 at a local event that he would place at. He was good enough to basically cover what we spent for the night of racing, or at least close.

So, why is the Karting world so different then our moto world? Why can these kids get to bring home some cash in their pockets for their efforts and all we get is a plastic trophy?

Who set it up this way and how can we change it? As expensive as this sport has become, it sure would be nice to be able to make at least our entry fees back...

|
Cygnus
Posts
14849
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Hanover, CO US
5/10/2015 9:55am Edited Date/Time 5/10/2015 9:56am
Between 96-2002 I raced local pro flattrack and could make enough to cover mine and my daughters racing on a good Saturday night. That includes our motocross entries on Sunday. When I promote GP races I like to give prizes instead of trophies and to get a local shop to toss a pair of goggles our way is like pulling teeth. Just the way it is. MX is the red headed stepchild of motorsports.
mx617
Posts
1399
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Trail CA
5/10/2015 11:00am
Maybe driven by gate as well. Car racing tends to get a lot more spectators. Seems mx the only ones watching are racers and their families. Add 1000 spectators at $10-15 each and it goes a long way.
h&m_cycle
Posts
4412
Joined
2/23/2014
Location
Steubenville, OH US
5/10/2015 11:01am
Yeah & there used to be 35 to 50 showing up @ a regular 125 A class race. Over 100 125 C, prices of bikes just cost too much
$10,000 KTM probably costs $4,000 if that to make.
PTECH
Posts
470
Joined
11/28/2011
Location
Phoenix, AZ US
5/10/2015 11:13am
h&m_cycle wrote:
Yeah & there used to be 35 to 50 showing up @ a regular 125 A class race. Over 100 125 C, prices of bikes just...
Yeah & there used to be 35 to 50 showing up @ a regular 125 A class race. Over 100 125 C, prices of bikes just cost too much
$10,000 KTM probably costs $4,000 if that to make.
You dont HAVE to show up with a brand new 450 FE you know?

The Shop

SPYGUY
Posts
2018
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
US
Fantasy
725th
5/10/2015 11:33am
JoJmoto wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/05/10/90579/s1200_karting.jpg[/img] A friend of mine is pretty big into Karting, as we all are into moto. His son, whom I think is about 13 year old...


A friend of mine is pretty big into Karting, as we all are into moto. His son, whom I think is about 13 year old, just brought home $12,000. at this big race they were at. My oldest son used to kart a couple years ago at the local level. He was 13 then and would win anywhere from $20-100 at a local event that he would place at. He was good enough to basically cover what we spent for the night of racing, or at least close.

So, why is the Karting world so different then our moto world? Why can these kids get to bring home some cash in their pockets for their efforts and all we get is a plastic trophy?

Who set it up this way and how can we change it? As expensive as this sport has become, it sure would be nice to be able to make at least our entry fees back...

If promoters could get away with paying big money to local racers, and still make money themselves, they would.

But they can't.

Want to change it? Dig into your own pocket and offer to pitch in to fund a big purse for the local racers. Then convince others to do the same. If you can't come up with enough good reasons to justify doing that, perhaps you can begin to understand why no one else wants to either.

The dynamics of karting are different than moto. Fewer tracks, fewer opportunities to race, etc. If kart tracks were everywhere, the number of racers at each event would be diluted and no single track would have great turnouts. Just like motocross.



Racerx930
Posts
767
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Stillwater, OK US
5/10/2015 1:12pm
I promote both types of racing so this one is pretty easy. The last MX race we had 323 people total come in the gate, the last Circle track race sold 15k in pit passes.
5/10/2015 3:11pm
It's not different. It costs 1500-2000 to race a big karting event. Only one guy can win.

Karts aren't making money either ! To make a million in racing you gotta start with 2.
racerx221
Posts
391
Joined
4/30/2015
Location
CT US
5/10/2015 3:49pm
You have to be local pro bro or you just race at podunk raceway.
mtl
Posts
1231
Joined
9/26/2011
Location
CA US
5/10/2015 4:14pm
in the Noertheast all expert classes pay, including vet classes...
A. DLeary
Posts
537
Joined
3/13/2015
Location
US
5/10/2015 4:15pm Edited Date/Time 5/10/2015 4:16pm
We follow the worthless rules of the AMA that states if you get paid you are ineligible to race anything but the PRO class. That in short eliminates anyone who is not pro from getting paid, and the local pro class does not get enough support on average for the track owners to justify it. If you take money from the other classes and give it to the pros, some white trash mom is at the signup box screaming how unfair it is, and track owners don't want more headaches. That was my experience at least.
5/10/2015 4:34pm
Local fam used to race bikes..sold most all and went full into karts.

They must have 300 grand invested.
Their theory is the future on all points is brighter.
Less injury, longer career and more opportunity.

Lets be honest....look at AC. Hes already on the downslope and if he fucks that shoulder up again its over. And hes what?
20? If he hadnt signed 5 year deal he could barely get a ride flunking out of each series so far.
SKlein
Posts
1196
Joined
3/25/2014
Location
MN US
5/10/2015 4:47pm
Local fam used to race bikes..sold most all and went full into karts. They must have 300 grand invested. Their theory is the future on all...
Local fam used to race bikes..sold most all and went full into karts.

They must have 300 grand invested.
Their theory is the future on all points is brighter.
Less injury, longer career and more opportunity.

Lets be honest....look at AC. Hes already on the downslope and if he fucks that shoulder up again its over. And hes what?
20? If he hadnt signed 5 year deal he could barely get a ride flunking out of each series so far.
I think saying he's on a downslope is a bit of an exaggeration. If he does his shoulder in again he's got some issues to deal with, but he's definitely got plenty of time to make things happen.
JustMX
Posts
4603
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
TN US
5/10/2015 5:07pm
SKlein wrote:
I think saying he's on a downslope is a bit of an exaggeration. If he does his shoulder in again he's got some issues to deal...
I think saying he's on a downslope is a bit of an exaggeration. If he does his shoulder in again he's got some issues to deal with, but he's definitely got plenty of time to make things happen.
So did Robbie Reynard and George Holland.
pete24
Posts
2733
Joined
10/20/2011
Location
Marlborough, MA US
5/10/2015 6:02pm
mtl wrote:
in the Noertheast all expert classes pay, including vet classes...
which northeast are you talking about? nesc does not pay vet a all the time they pay one class every now and then randomly, but if your a vet rider you should not expect to make money racing, your a god dam vet rider for christ sake
JoJmoto
Posts
1776
Joined
11/8/2006
Location
Clarkesville, GA US
5/10/2015 8:00pm
JoJmoto wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/05/10/90579/s1200_karting.jpg[/img] A friend of mine is pretty big into Karting, as we all are into moto. His son, whom I think is about 13 year old...


A friend of mine is pretty big into Karting, as we all are into moto. His son, whom I think is about 13 year old, just brought home $12,000. at this big race they were at. My oldest son used to kart a couple years ago at the local level. He was 13 then and would win anywhere from $20-100 at a local event that he would place at. He was good enough to basically cover what we spent for the night of racing, or at least close.

So, why is the Karting world so different then our moto world? Why can these kids get to bring home some cash in their pockets for their efforts and all we get is a plastic trophy?

Who set it up this way and how can we change it? As expensive as this sport has become, it sure would be nice to be able to make at least our entry fees back...

SPYGUY wrote:
If promoters could get away with paying big money to local racers, and still make money themselves, they would. But they can't. Want to change it...
If promoters could get away with paying big money to local racers, and still make money themselves, they would.

But they can't.

Want to change it? Dig into your own pocket and offer to pitch in to fund a big purse for the local racers. Then convince others to do the same. If you can't come up with enough good reasons to justify doing that, perhaps you can begin to understand why no one else wants to either.

The dynamics of karting are different than moto. Fewer tracks, fewer opportunities to race, etc. If kart tracks were everywhere, the number of racers at each event would be diluted and no single track would have great turnouts. Just like motocross.



I know money is an issue with everyone... but the Kart track we raced at would only get about 100 people on race night and STILL pay out top three in EVERY class.

I am sure the more entries the more you won but heck even if it was say... $10 .. well, that's better then what us MX guys leave with.

So clearly there is a way to do it.

But my main question is, why is it not allowed in AMA racing? Ok so its against the rules.... why?
oshow
Posts
4085
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
GA US
5/10/2015 8:06pm
SKlein wrote:
I think saying he's on a downslope is a bit of an exaggeration. If he does his shoulder in again he's got some issues to deal...
I think saying he's on a downslope is a bit of an exaggeration. If he does his shoulder in again he's got some issues to deal with, but he's definitely got plenty of time to make things happen.
JustMX wrote:
So did Robbie Reynard and George Holland.
He's better than them.. Just wait and watch
mtl
Posts
1231
Joined
9/26/2011
Location
CA US
5/10/2015 8:32pm
mtl wrote:
in the Noertheast all expert classes pay, including vet classes...
pete24 wrote:
which northeast are you talking about? nesc does not pay vet a all the time they pay one class every now and then randomly, but if...
which northeast are you talking about? nesc does not pay vet a all the time they pay one class every now and then randomly, but if your a vet rider you should not expect to make money racing, your a god dam vet rider for christ sake
District 34 and MSC. Buddy finished 8th at Claverack a few weeks ago in +30A and covered his entry and gate for the day.

NESC pays +30A, +40A and +25A on a rotating basis every week. Open A might be in the rotation as well.


NorCal racing is bullshit, not even the expert classes pay. No wonder there's single digit number (usually under 5) rider turnout for even those classes...
Moto Mofo
Posts
857
Joined
1/17/2008
Location
TX US
5/10/2015 8:42pm
Anyone remember when those rodeo promoters promoted that huge money Novice race a few years ago, that was won by some sandbagger from England who was actually a pro over there? 1st place got a crew cab, dually Ford if I remember correctly.

People sandbag bad enough just for trophies. Add money to more classes, and things will only get worse.
mtl
Posts
1231
Joined
9/26/2011
Location
CA US
5/10/2015 8:52pm
Thats another difference between the Northeast and sandbagging California.

Each organization has a points system that is enforced and riders who win a lot move up. Every week there is a list of riders who are moving up whether they want to or not. Once your in the expert class there no where to go and you race all the fast guys.

Amateur payback even makes sense in these organizations because they dont let you get away with it. Shit, I left Crow Hill with $25 for winning B classes here and there and it was a good motivation to win.

In NorCal the C riders are whipping and scrubbing over every jump and never move up. There's even a D (beginner) class where you constantly get the couple of kids who gap the field by 30 seconds in a 4 lapper and no one makes them move up. The racing is NorCal is dying because the C/D classes have riders but the A/B classes have 2-7 person gates...

5/10/2015 9:18pm
oshow wrote:
He's better than them.. Just wait and watch
How is he better? 4 series now either flunked out or DNS.
How much longer?
oshow
Posts
4085
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
GA US
5/10/2015 9:22pm
oshow wrote:
He's better than them.. Just wait and watch
How is he better? 4 series now either flunked out or DNS.
How much longer?
About a week. Maybe a month
Dissident
Posts
158
Joined
4/14/2015
Location
CA US
5/10/2015 9:32pm
SKlein wrote:
I think saying he's on a downslope is a bit of an exaggeration. If he does his shoulder in again he's got some issues to deal...
I think saying he's on a downslope is a bit of an exaggeration. If he does his shoulder in again he's got some issues to deal with, but he's definitely got plenty of time to make things happen.
JustMX wrote:
So did Robbie Reynard and George Holland.
oshow wrote:
He's better than them.. Just wait and watch
Def before my time but from what I read Robbie Reynard was the next biggest thing in 1994..he was THAT amazing apparently.

i'd say their amateur careers are pretty parallel ..
Motodave15
Posts
4260
Joined
8/7/2010
Location
Temple City, CA US
5/10/2015 9:33pm
SKlein wrote:
I think saying he's on a downslope is a bit of an exaggeration. If he does his shoulder in again he's got some issues to deal...
I think saying he's on a downslope is a bit of an exaggeration. If he does his shoulder in again he's got some issues to deal with, but he's definitely got plenty of time to make things happen.
JustMX wrote:
So did Robbie Reynard and George Holland.
oshow wrote:
He's better than them.. Just wait and watch
he may be better than them. But a huge effing But.. is that people and fans and such are still riding his hype train. and cutting him some serious slack.
Motodave15
Posts
4260
Joined
8/7/2010
Location
Temple City, CA US
5/10/2015 9:34pm
Moto Mofo wrote:
Anyone remember when those rodeo promoters promoted that huge money Novice race a few years ago, that was won by some sandbagger from England who was...
Anyone remember when those rodeo promoters promoted that huge money Novice race a few years ago, that was won by some sandbagger from England who was actually a pro over there? 1st place got a crew cab, dually Ford if I remember correctly.

People sandbag bad enough just for trophies. Add money to more classes, and things will only get worse.
yea i remember reading about him... wasnt his name like max snow or some shit?
robkinuk
Posts
4202
Joined
5/16/2007
Location
Ashbourne GB
5/11/2015 12:31am
racerx217 wrote:
people race shopping karts?
Hut wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/05/10/90650/s1200_GroceryCart.jpg[/img]


Wow, James is in deep shit if WADA and UCI read this thread!WoohooAngry ...........................LaughingLaughingLaughing

Cliff notes for vitard GSXR: (This is a joke, bit of fun not trashing James) If you take offence to this, here's a tube of:


HenryA
Posts
3789
Joined
12/29/2011
Location
Stockholm SE
5/11/2015 12:53am





Compare these two top athletes.
Both were champions last year. Both are filthy rich but one of them earns a shit load of more money than the other.
One of them has a main sponsor that produces oil and gas, the other one is supported by a sandwich shop.
....and that pretty much wraps it up.


PalerBlue
Posts
719
Joined
3/28/2014
Location
Essex GB
5/11/2015 3:22am
The thread title "Why can we get paid?"
followed by you compaining your child only gets a trophy. Sad

I suggest the poor little sod doesn't need any extra pressure on your chosen career path, for him.

Paying prize money to children is against all the rules here and for good reason.
1

Post a reply to: Why can't we get paid?

The Latest