Why are Factory riders allowed special tires ?

500guy
Posts
12478
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
AZ US
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 8:54am
How much bullshit is it that at every turn the top guy's get an extra advantage ?

We want good racing but someone else wants only a few to be part of it.
|
mx295
Posts
4266
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Quartz Hill, CA US
1/11/2012 2:27pm
Because factory riders like RV and Dungey will sell the product by being on the podium week in and week out, Compared to a no name guy that's never on the podium or has a hard time making the night show. So if the factory guys keep getting the "special" tires then it's a good chance they will be up on the podium every week to market the product..Just my opinion.
MotoX85
Posts
2199
Joined
10/9/2011
Location
Centralia, IL US
1/11/2012 2:30pm
Production rule man, get your facts straight dude.








heavy sarcasm btw

They should call it the production "looking" plastic rule, since you really can change about everthing else.
1/11/2012 2:30pm
The same reason they get special parts and factory rides. The best guys will always get the best parts, always have, and always will.

The Shop

mxb2
Posts
22488
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
Bowie, MD US
1/11/2012 2:32pm
Why do movie stars and athletes get free stuff? They have the most money but get shit free. The best get the best, not fair but its reality.
KBehlingMX
Posts
373
Joined
5/3/2008
Location
San Diego, CA US
1/11/2012 2:32pm
No works tires, sounds like something that would level out the playing field, maybe Dunlop will drop the MX51 act and start making good tires again...

There's rules for just about everything else. Privateers can get PC to do suspension, motors etc with enough money but they can't buy these mysterious factory tires so why do they still exist if we don't have "works" bikes anymore? Hmmm.
GG83
Posts
154
Joined
9/9/2006
Location
St Cyr Sur Mer FR
1/11/2012 2:35pm
I rode with Bayle and Stanton factory Dunlop but I never matched their speed, too bad .....
1/11/2012 2:36pm
The fact is this...you take away all the worx stuff the top few get, and they will be running the 5th or 6th place pace. But if you gave that same stuff to the 6th-15th place guys, those guys would not improve but if marginally.

Take away the worx stuff from Weimer and Brayton and then they'd be back with the rest of the pack.

It takes a special rider to get the most out of a worx component. So in the end, its not something we should complain about. The top 5 are only competing with themselves anyways and all of them have worx components. Albeit Chad doesnt have worx suspension and Bubba is on a Yamaha, and KTM is still a work in progress for Dungey. But none of those guys are at that significant of an disadvantage to Villopoto or Canard.

Think of it if you were a parts mfg. Only 3 guys get to stand on the box. Why waste the money and give every rider the worx components? You'd only give it to the guys who are the most marketable. Its just sound business.
peelout
Posts
17872
Joined
1/6/2011
Location
Ogden, UT US
1/11/2012 2:36pm
mx295 wrote:
Because factory riders like RV and Dungey will sell the product by being on the podium week in and week out, Compared to a no name...
Because factory riders like RV and Dungey will sell the product by being on the podium week in and week out, Compared to a no name guy that's never on the podium or has a hard time making the night show. So if the factory guys keep getting the "special" tires then it's a good chance they will be up on the podium every week to market the product..Just my opinion.
they sell the name, not the product
1/11/2012 2:37pm Edited Date/Time 1/11/2012 2:39pm
KBehlingMX wrote:
No works tires, sounds like something that would level out the playing field, maybe Dunlop will drop the MX51 act and start making good tires again...
No works tires, sounds like something that would level out the playing field, maybe Dunlop will drop the MX51 act and start making good tires again...

There's rules for just about everything else. Privateers can get PC to do suspension, motors etc with enough money but they can't buy these mysterious factory tires so why do they still exist if we don't have "works" bikes anymore? Hmmm.
PC kit suspension and PC customer motors do not compare to Showa/KYB works suspension or a PC factory/OEM factory motor.

There are only a few guys out there who are talented enough to do the most with a set of works suspension or with a works motor package.
Mstock
Posts
2045
Joined
9/14/2010
Location
Middleton, WI US
1/11/2012 2:40pm
It's bullshit. They should be doing everything they can to have all 20 riders passing for the lead or go down to 5 rider "top guys" main events.

A couple little motorsports programs (Nascar and Formula 1) put them all on the same spec tire for a reason. Someday this little sport will figure out why.
1/11/2012 2:44pm Edited Date/Time 1/11/2012 2:46pm
Mstock wrote:
It's bullshit. They should be doing everything they can to have all 20 riders passing for the lead or go down to 5 rider "top guys"...
It's bullshit. They should be doing everything they can to have all 20 riders passing for the lead or go down to 5 rider "top guys" main events.

A couple little motorsports programs (Nascar and Formula 1) put them all on the same spec tire for a reason. Someday this little sport will figure out why.
If you think every F1 team is on the same tire or that every NASCAR team is on the same tire, you dont really know that much about motorsports.

Though, Im sure the average F1 fan thinks that every Dunlop sponsored SX team is running production MX51's.



Look, you wish every bike was equal but if every bike was equal, the results would not change much. The MAIN THING HOLDING BACK THE RIDERS IN POSITIONS 6-15 IS THEMSELVES!!! When a rider is putting in the work of a Dungey, then he can complain about not getting the works tires. Until then, its a moot issue.

Alessi is about the only rider I can think of that works as hard as the elite guys. He's had the works stuff. He still cant get it done in SX. In MX, he's a different animal, and deserving of the good stuff.

This isnt an IROC series. This is a motorsport. The bike matters. If you dont want the bike to matter, why not have them run the track? Or better yet, maybe you should consider switching to watching BMX.
Mstock
Posts
2045
Joined
9/14/2010
Location
Middleton, WI US
1/11/2012 2:49pm
Mstock wrote:
It's bullshit. They should be doing everything they can to have all 20 riders passing for the lead or go down to 5 rider "top guys"...
It's bullshit. They should be doing everything they can to have all 20 riders passing for the lead or go down to 5 rider "top guys" main events.

A couple little motorsports programs (Nascar and Formula 1) put them all on the same spec tire for a reason. Someday this little sport will figure out why.
If you think every F1 team is on the same tire or that every NASCAR team is on the same tire, you dont really know that...
If you think every F1 team is on the same tire or that every NASCAR team is on the same tire, you dont really know that much about motorsports.

Though, Im sure the average F1 fan thinks that every Dunlop sponsored SX team is running production MX51's.



Look, you wish every bike was equal but if every bike was equal, the results would not change much. The MAIN THING HOLDING BACK THE RIDERS IN POSITIONS 6-15 IS THEMSELVES!!! When a rider is putting in the work of a Dungey, then he can complain about not getting the works tires. Until then, its a moot issue.

Alessi is about the only rider I can think of that works as hard as the elite guys. He's had the works stuff. He still cant get it done in SX. In MX, he's a different animal, and deserving of the good stuff.

This isnt an IROC series. This is a motorsport. The bike matters. If you dont want the bike to matter, why not have them run the track? Or better yet, maybe you should consider switching to watching BMX.
Hey Dumbass you take the Dipshit Fan of the year award for this coment: "If you think every F1 team is on the same tire or that every NASCAR team is on the same tire, you dont really know that much about motorsports."

Congratulations!
Drew580
Posts
167
Joined
1/27/2011
Location
CA
1/11/2012 2:51pm
Mstock wrote:
It's bullshit. They should be doing everything they can to have all 20 riders passing for the lead or go down to 5 rider "top guys"...
It's bullshit. They should be doing everything they can to have all 20 riders passing for the lead or go down to 5 rider "top guys" main events.

A couple little motorsports programs (Nascar and Formula 1) put them all on the same spec tire for a reason. Someday this little sport will figure out why.
If you think every F1 team is on the same tire or that every NASCAR team is on the same tire, you dont really know that...
If you think every F1 team is on the same tire or that every NASCAR team is on the same tire, you dont really know that much about motorsports.

Though, Im sure the average F1 fan thinks that every Dunlop sponsored SX team is running production MX51's.



Look, you wish every bike was equal but if every bike was equal, the results would not change much. The MAIN THING HOLDING BACK THE RIDERS IN POSITIONS 6-15 IS THEMSELVES!!! When a rider is putting in the work of a Dungey, then he can complain about not getting the works tires. Until then, its a moot issue.

Alessi is about the only rider I can think of that works as hard as the elite guys. He's had the works stuff. He still cant get it done in SX. In MX, he's a different animal, and deserving of the good stuff.

This isnt an IROC series. This is a motorsport. The bike matters. If you dont want the bike to matter, why not have them run the track? Or better yet, maybe you should consider switching to watching BMX.
uh.. NASCAR and F1 issues the teams the tires every weekend so I'm pretty sure they all run the same tires. Just saying
1/11/2012 2:54pm Edited Date/Time 1/11/2012 2:58pm
Mstock wrote:
Hey Dumbass you take the Dipshit Fan of the year award for this coment: "If you think every F1 team is on the same tire or...
Hey Dumbass you take the Dipshit Fan of the year award for this coment: "If you think every F1 team is on the same tire or that every NASCAR team is on the same tire, you dont really know that much about motorsports."

Congratulations!
Im the dipshit of the year? Why is that?

Is it because Ive been in the F1, MotoGP, Indy, and NASCAR paddock? And I know that despite the "spec rules" that their is still room for manipulation and favortism?

It happens. Get over it. "Just saying".


Or, keep drinking the kool-aid my friend. Doesnt matter to me.
KAWboy14
Posts
6505
Joined
12/31/2007
Location
Austin, TX US
1/11/2012 2:58pm
every dunlop rider/team has access to the same tire!
TeamGreen
Posts
28991
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA US
1/11/2012 3:05pm
Shhhhhh...keep it down....but...

This argument ain't worth the typing since the "Geo" series came out.

Go compare a 715 works tire to a MX51/71.

The last significant tire issues were based on Profile and Carcass materials (And they still may be...at Pirelli, that is).

I loved the 713/714/715 series'...and that's why I love the MX 11/31/51/71...'cuase they are "Production" versions of those tires and "Production" tires, at Dunlop, are VERY Consistent and have the ultimate "quality control".

Sumitomo Rubber Industries, LTD at it's finest.

Btw, to the folks at Dunlop: Thanks for "Turning it up a notch" while everyone-else was throwing in the towel. I. truly, appreciate it!

I'm jus' sayin'...
TeamGreen
Posts
28991
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA US
1/11/2012 3:07pm
Mstock wrote:
It's bullshit. They should be doing everything they can to have all 20 riders passing for the lead or go down to 5 rider "top guys"...
It's bullshit. They should be doing everything they can to have all 20 riders passing for the lead or go down to 5 rider "top guys" main events.

A couple little motorsports programs (Nascar and Formula 1) put them all on the same spec tire for a reason. Someday this little sport will figure out why.
If you think every F1 team is on the same tire or that every NASCAR team is on the same tire, you dont really know that...
If you think every F1 team is on the same tire or that every NASCAR team is on the same tire, you dont really know that much about motorsports.

Though, Im sure the average F1 fan thinks that every Dunlop sponsored SX team is running production MX51's.



Look, you wish every bike was equal but if every bike was equal, the results would not change much. The MAIN THING HOLDING BACK THE RIDERS IN POSITIONS 6-15 IS THEMSELVES!!! When a rider is putting in the work of a Dungey, then he can complain about not getting the works tires. Until then, its a moot issue.

Alessi is about the only rider I can think of that works as hard as the elite guys. He's had the works stuff. He still cant get it done in SX. In MX, he's a different animal, and deserving of the good stuff.

This isnt an IROC series. This is a motorsport. The bike matters. If you dont want the bike to matter, why not have them run the track? Or better yet, maybe you should consider switching to watching BMX.
Mstock wrote:
Hey Dumbass you take the Dipshit Fan of the year award for this coment: "If you think every F1 team is on the same tire or...
Hey Dumbass you take the Dipshit Fan of the year award for this coment: "If you think every F1 team is on the same tire or that every NASCAR team is on the same tire, you dont really know that much about motorsports."

Congratulations!
Actually, you picked the 2 WORST Examples for your argument; because, you're dead wrong.

Believe it or not: In BOTH cases ALL the Teams "pull" from the same container at EACH event; furthermore, you ARE NOT allowed to run tires from a different event.

PERIOD.

I'm jus' knowin'...
Spooner
Posts
1929
Joined
1/8/2011
Location
Kansas City, MO US
1/11/2012 3:28pm
A lot of racing series are going to a spec tire rule and it's working pretty dang good for them. That said, I just don't know that the tires are as big of a dividing factor in SX or MX but I'm slow so what do I know..
dv12.com
Posts
1484
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Murrieta, CA US
Fantasy
134th
1/11/2012 3:32pm
500guy wrote:
How much bullshit is it that at every turn the top guy's get an extra advantage ? We want good racing but someone else wants only...
How much bullshit is it that at every turn the top guy's get an extra advantage ?

We want good racing but someone else wants only a few to be part of it.
Guys that make barely the night show wouldn't see the difference...
peelout
Posts
17872
Joined
1/6/2011
Location
Ogden, UT US
1/11/2012 3:33pm
MX51 is the biggest piece of shit tire to be produced, neck and neck with a cheng shing tong.

after 2 rides i had 3 missing knobs. called dunlop and they told me that it isn't out of the ordinary.
500guy
Posts
12478
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
AZ US
1/11/2012 3:41pm
500guy wrote:
How much bullshit is it that at every turn the top guy's get an extra advantage ? We want good racing but someone else wants only...
How much bullshit is it that at every turn the top guy's get an extra advantage ?

We want good racing but someone else wants only a few to be part of it.
dv12.com wrote:
Guys that make barely the night show wouldn't see the difference...
A level playing field is what needs to happen, I agree talent and preparation will sort it out, adding an advantage to someone that already has a huge advantage should not happen.
Hando
Posts
1571
Joined
11/13/2011
Location
US
1/11/2012 3:43pm
is the mx51 the relacement for the 756??

i was fucking pissed when i found out they got rid of the 756 !!!
hbdesigns913
Posts
652
Joined
8/28/2011
Location
Danville, IN US
1/11/2012 3:45pm
For the past 4 years I worked on the pit crew for Bob Tasca (NHRA Ford Motorcraft funny car). I dont know about SX, but we picked tires off the same truck that all the non sponsored teams did. It was first come, first serve starting Thursday mornings. Just a fact for everyone that thinks the spec tire rule is bogus.
YetiMan
Posts
140
Joined
10/3/2009
Location
NZ
1/11/2012 3:49pm
The guys that get that stuff earned it, they didn't start out there careers getting everything, but they earned it. Look at Brayton, started in arena cross, work his way up and now he is on factory Honda. Go cry about it somewhere else
500guy
Posts
12478
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
AZ US
1/11/2012 3:51pm
YetiMan wrote:
The guys that get that stuff earned it, they didn't start out there careers getting everything, but they earned it. Look at Brayton, started in arena...
The guys that get that stuff earned it, they didn't start out there careers getting everything, but they earned it. Look at Brayton, started in arena cross, work his way up and now he is on factory Honda. Go cry about it somewhere else
You should change your Log in Name to Dumb Fuck.
1/11/2012 3:52pm
YetiMan wrote:
The guys that get that stuff earned it, they didn't start out there careers getting everything, but they earned it. Look at Brayton, started in arena...
The guys that get that stuff earned it, they didn't start out there careers getting everything, but they earned it. Look at Brayton, started in arena cross, work his way up and now he is on factory Honda. Go cry about it somewhere else
This. The reason MX/SX is BETTER than F1/NASCRAP etc is BECAUSE the factory guys still get cool stuff. The best will still be the best if you make them all ride bone stock bikes. Unlike car racing, the bike is the smallest factor in SX/MX, its still 80% rider skill, where in car racing if the car is off the best driver in the world is not going to compensate for it.
kxking
Posts
1191
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Oakville, Ontario CA
Fantasy
1235th
1/11/2012 3:54pm
500guy wrote:
A level playing field is what needs to happen, I agree talent and preparation will sort it out, adding an advantage to someone that already has...
A level playing field is what needs to happen, I agree talent and preparation will sort it out, adding an advantage to someone that already has a huge advantage should not happen.
So then they should all be on the same bike too right??
crewshin
Posts
362
Joined
3/30/2009
Location
LA, CA US
1/11/2012 3:55pm
500guy wrote:
How much bullshit is it that at every turn the top guy's get an extra advantage ? We want good racing but someone else wants only...
How much bullshit is it that at every turn the top guy's get an extra advantage ?

We want good racing but someone else wants only a few to be part of it.
dv12.com wrote:
Guys that make barely the night show wouldn't see the difference...
Bullshit. That's a blanket statement and you are wrong.

I have friends that can practically tell the difference between titanium bolts and stockers. All I'm saying is that it depends on the rider.

I agree 1000000% btw. A level playing field is what this sport needs. I've been yelling for a spec class for ages and it seems captain run the show dooshy just doesn't get it.

Tires, parts, coatings, fuel (if you only knew what was going on in the fuel world), hell man... everything. I fight with myself over all this though because I LOVE the works aspect to the sport. Just as I like how massively tech the F1 world is. It would be a shame to completely remove that stuff from the sport. Which is why I like the spec class idea. I can promise you that if there was a spec class in addition to the normal classes, it would instantly become the most liked race of the evening. The battles would be EPIC every night!

Post a reply to: Why are Factory riders allowed special tires ?

The Latest