Why air forks but not air shock ?

sumdood
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sumdood
Edited Date/Time 6/3/2016 1:24pm
If air forks are here to stay, how come no ones developed an air shock ?
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bobby397
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bobby397 6/3/2016 1:49am
6/3/2016 1:49am
Think KTM and WP came up with one and it failed with Dungey at an sx race in 2015 or 2014. Believe Andrew Short ran it as well. Must not had been able to get it to preform correctly been I have heard much of it since the failure
Fearo
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Fearo 6/3/2016 3:13am
6/3/2016 3:13am Edited Date/Time 6/3/2016 3:17am
Andrew Short is still running it I believe.

I would think the main reason would be cost. Because unlike what most people believe, one of the main reasons for pushing air forks (other than weight savings), is the reduced cost of manufacturing them (less parts). Not that the consumer would notice this in the msrp...

I'm no expert on air shocks but I don't think that same logic would work, I think it would actually be more expensive to manufacture than a regular shock. I have read a few times that KTM intends to sell its air shock as an SXS part in the future though.
ML512
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ML512 6/3/2016 5:28am
6/3/2016 5:28am
sumdood wrote:
If air forks are here to stay, how come no ones developed an air shock ?
Andrew Short has been running it for two seasons now and is still running it... Davi Millsaps also had it during Supercross. WP is continuing development on it.
Markee
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Markee 6/3/2016 5:36am
6/3/2016 5:36am
I would assume the air shock would be the greater weight savings too. Which leads me to the question, how does andrews bike meet weight? The bike is already near the limit at 221.8 Lbs.

Are they weighed with fluids?

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Bramlett321
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Bramlett321 6/3/2016 5:46am
6/3/2016 5:46am
Per Keefer I believe the air shock is to be phased out!!! He mentioned that on one of the podcasts with Matthes
#76
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#76 6/3/2016 5:50am
6/3/2016 5:50am Edited Date/Time 6/3/2016 5:52am
bobby397 wrote:
Think KTM and WP came up with one and it failed with Dungey at an sx race in 2015 or 2014. Believe Andrew Short ran it...
Think KTM and WP came up with one and it failed with Dungey at an sx race in 2015 or 2014. Believe Andrew Short ran it as well. Must not had been able to get it to preform correctly been I have heard much of it since the failure
Was 2013....how time fly's....



(Sorry, i could'nt work out how to post the video directly here like the cool people do)
moto0852
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moto0852 6/3/2016 6:01am
6/3/2016 6:01am
sumdood wrote:
If air forks are here to stay, how come no ones developed an air shock ?
Clearly your not familiar with a brand of bike that is orange and currently taking over the sport?
Tpog496
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Tpog496 6/3/2016 7:12am
6/3/2016 7:12am
moto0852 wrote:
Clearly your not familiar with a brand of bike that is orange and currently taking over the sport?
Taking over the sport? Do you have any experience with motocross other than vital?
CoccoBill
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CoccoBill 6/3/2016 7:20am
6/3/2016 7:20am
I think the main problem is the air shock is progressive, while a spring shock is linear, so you have to redesign the whole swing arm link to compensate for the lack of linearity. You just can't swap a spring shock for an air one, it wouldn't work. That's what's happening with downhill bikes, there are frames with progressive leverage (like mine) that wouldn't easily accept an air shock.
Maybe something like KTM's old PDS sytem would work, since the progressiveness is given by the shock itself and not by the linkage.
Rocket88
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Rocket88 6/3/2016 7:49am
6/3/2016 7:49am
CoccoBill wrote:
I think the main problem is the air shock is progressive, while a spring shock is linear, so you have to redesign the whole swing arm...
I think the main problem is the air shock is progressive, while a spring shock is linear, so you have to redesign the whole swing arm link to compensate for the lack of linearity. You just can't swap a spring shock for an air one, it wouldn't work. That's what's happening with downhill bikes, there are frames with progressive leverage (like mine) that wouldn't easily accept an air shock.
Maybe something like KTM's old PDS sytem would work, since the progressiveness is given by the shock itself and not by the linkage.
Just think how much weight that would save!
BAMX
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BAMX 6/3/2016 7:57am
6/3/2016 7:57am
moto0852 wrote:
Clearly your not familiar with a brand of bike that is orange and currently taking over the sport?
Tpog496 wrote:
Taking over the sport? Do you have any experience with motocross other than vital?
Have you been to any event other than a motocross race? They are a sea of orange and white with some blue mixed in.
Lawrence929 6/3/2016 8:16am
6/3/2016 8:16am
CoccoBill wrote:
I think the main problem is the air shock is progressive, while a spring shock is linear, so you have to redesign the whole swing arm...
I think the main problem is the air shock is progressive, while a spring shock is linear, so you have to redesign the whole swing arm link to compensate for the lack of linearity. You just can't swap a spring shock for an air one, it wouldn't work. That's what's happening with downhill bikes, there are frames with progressive leverage (like mine) that wouldn't easily accept an air shock.
Maybe something like KTM's old PDS sytem would work, since the progressiveness is given by the shock itself and not by the linkage.
Rocket88 wrote:
Just think how much weight that would save!
I just got a weight saving boner! That combo might save 5 or more pounds easily right?
sumdood
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sumdood 6/3/2016 8:24am
6/3/2016 8:24am
bobby397 wrote:
Think KTM and WP came up with one and it failed with Dungey at an sx race in 2015 or 2014. Believe Andrew Short ran it...
Think KTM and WP came up with one and it failed with Dungey at an sx race in 2015 or 2014. Believe Andrew Short ran it as well. Must not had been able to get it to preform correctly been I have heard much of it since the failure
Doh ! I completely forgot about that. Seems like a shock would have to be able to hold way higher psi because of the leverage and the fact that there's only one.
Tpog496
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Tpog496 6/3/2016 8:26am
6/3/2016 8:26am
BAMX wrote:
Have you been to any event other than a motocross race? They are a sea of orange and white with some blue mixed in.
Yea I have, and I agree they have the off road market on lock. I was under the impression we were talking about motocross given the name of the website, my mention of motocross in my previous reply, and the numerous other posters in this thread talking about motocross.
Bret
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Bret 6/3/2016 10:06am
6/3/2016 10:06am
One big factor is heat. Shocks get much hotter than forks do. Forks have more volume and the location of the forks is conducive to cooling. The volume of a shock is much lower and being tucked in the middle of the bike is less likely to be cooled by air flow. These things can be solved but would likely add weight and complexity.
ob
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ob 6/3/2016 12:10pm
6/3/2016 12:10pm
They say KTMs air shock doesn't realy save any weight because it has some additional component under the seat that regulates the pressure as it heats up. Plus titanium springs are pretty light.

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