What's the next innovation? Remember the BMW Husky?

moto0852
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Edited Date/Time 4/18/2015 12:57am
So I'm wondering....air suspension, reverse engines, mass centralization... what's the next big step and then I saw on MXA a photo of the old BMW Huskys and as crappy as they were they had some cool ideas.

One that always makes me wonder is the countershaft pivot point. ATK had a system to avoid the torque created from the chain and everyone deemed it a success and it vanished. BMW had an even cooler idea (IMHO) and it was considered a success and again....gone. See photo below


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baisleyde
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4/16/2015 1:08pm
That wasn't considered a success. No one liked that bike
TeamGreen
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4/16/2015 1:11pm
baisleyde wrote:
That wasn't considered a success. No one liked that bike
The C/S drive was a success. The "general purpose dirt-bike" Marketing plan wasn't.
peelout
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4/16/2015 1:16pm
Jump to conclusions mat, it's a mat with different conclusions that you can jump to
moto0852
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4/16/2015 1:26pm
baisleyde wrote:
That wasn't considered a success. No one liked that bike
Yeah, you missunderstood. The bike was junk. Talking about the "chain torque removal" idea.

The Shop

baisleyde
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4/16/2015 1:30pm
baisleyde wrote:
That wasn't considered a success. No one liked that bike
moto0852 wrote:
Yeah, you missunderstood. The bike was junk. Talking about the "chain torque removal" idea.
Sort of a good idea, though I think most people wouldn't be too thrilled about having to remove the swingarm to change a sprocket.
hvaughn88
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4/16/2015 1:33pm
baisleyde wrote:
That wasn't considered a success. No one liked that bike
moto0852 wrote:
Yeah, you missunderstood. The bike was junk. Talking about the "chain torque removal" idea.
baisleyde wrote:
Sort of a good idea, though I think most people wouldn't be too thrilled about having to remove the swingarm to change a sprocket.
isn't there a company making a 2 piece sprocket?
Olson
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4/16/2015 1:35pm
Electronic suspension control.
moto0852
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4/16/2015 1:36pm
baisleyde wrote:
That wasn't considered a success. No one liked that bike
moto0852 wrote:
Yeah, you missunderstood. The bike was junk. Talking about the "chain torque removal" idea.
baisleyde wrote:
Sort of a good idea, though I think most people wouldn't be too thrilled about having to remove the swingarm to change a sprocket.
Yeah that was my thought. Does every new advance have to come with added complexity? If so the beloved two stroke is really doomed. Add fuel injection, great! One more thing to deal with.
jonesaustin
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4/16/2015 1:42pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2015 1:47pm
the next innovation for brands not called KTM or Husqvarna is to revamp their staffing strategy and invest time and salaries into poaching seriously amazing design and prototyping talent from car manufacturers, military aviation companies, or even from other internal teams. they need to push the barrier with dirtbikes (we're about 12 years late on this, yawn).

HRC Honda changed everything in the 80's and since then, aside from the road race frames and a few not-so-interesting things, we've just been refining HRC's advancements for the last 30 years.

Daring designers hate refinements. They go for it.

So please Japanese mfgs, hire some real design talent, go ballistic on concept (works) machines, that look and operate totally different, then build it and sell it. RISK something. even Kawasaki could have made the 250/450 look like the 85/100, but they even dropped the ball on that! see, a great designer designed the KX 85/100, look at the bike and it's obvious.

It's a staffing/team building issue. there hasn't been any morale in the design departments for dirtbikes, and that is what has to change. KTM gets that in the biggest way since HRC's '82-85 glory days.

Want to sell? Design!


mjskier
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4/16/2015 2:11pm
Did you have to remove the engine from the frame to change the sprocket?
(Kind of like the GM where you needed to lift the engine to change a spark plug. Oops!)
4/16/2015 2:31pm
Honestly, America needs to design an actually good dirtbike. The Euro's have come with some really cool stuff with Sherco, Husaberg, KTM, Husqvarna, Beta, TM and even GasGas (though they're going out of business).
jonesaustin
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4/16/2015 2:47pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2015 2:48pm
Honestly, America needs to design an actually good dirtbike. The Euro's have come with some really cool stuff with Sherco, Husaberg, KTM, Husqvarna, Beta, TM and...
Honestly, America needs to design an actually good dirtbike. The Euro's have come with some really cool stuff with Sherco, Husaberg, KTM, Husqvarna, Beta, TM and even GasGas (though they're going out of business).
you're right but it's not america, it's japan.

either way, dirtbikes should look LIGHT YEARS ahead of where we're at now.

the mfg's don't think our demographic, which, let's face it, is often guilty of trying to dumb down "look and feel" of the gear and machinery, presumably in an effort to seem "tough" (yawn). however the same guys in MX who dumb down design -- these are the "just give me something that works and i don't care how it looks" bullshitters -- these same "dudes" also turn to Ferrari, Tesla, Porche, and others in awe of their design!

it doesn't equal on the scales does it.

we need better better "look and feel" design. period, end of story.
SLO1667
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4/16/2015 2:59pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2015 3:00pm
Honestly, America needs to design an actually good dirtbike. The Euro's have come with some really cool stuff with Sherco, Husaberg, KTM, Husqvarna, Beta, TM and...
Honestly, America needs to design an actually good dirtbike. The Euro's have come with some really cool stuff with Sherco, Husaberg, KTM, Husqvarna, Beta, TM and even GasGas (though they're going out of business).
you're right but it's not america, it's japan. either way, dirtbikes should look LIGHT YEARS ahead of where we're at now. the mfg's don't think our...
you're right but it's not america, it's japan.

either way, dirtbikes should look LIGHT YEARS ahead of where we're at now.

the mfg's don't think our demographic, which, let's face it, is often guilty of trying to dumb down "look and feel" of the gear and machinery, presumably in an effort to seem "tough" (yawn). however the same guys in MX who dumb down design -- these are the "just give me something that works and i don't care how it looks" bullshitters -- these same "dudes" also turn to Ferrari, Tesla, Porche, and others in awe of their design!

it doesn't equal on the scales does it.

we need better better "look and feel" design. period, end of story.
Current generation MX bikes are FAR better than the POS works-bikes of the 80's...and by a long shot. This applies to mass-centralization, suspension, motor, EFI, brakes, etc, etc.

MX sales are a pimple on the ass of Japan for the most part. Most of the dollars have gone into street bike innovation, but some of that trickles over to MX over time.
downard254
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4/16/2015 4:39pm
The Boysen Link did the same thing by keeping the swing arm pivot in line with the countershaft and axle. I'll bet someone can post a shot of Bob Hannah's '86 unadilla bike. He used it there .
Mr Bean
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4/16/2015 4:46pm
downard254 wrote:
The Boysen Link did the same thing by keeping the swing arm pivot in line with the countershaft and axle. I'll bet someone can post a...
The Boysen Link did the same thing by keeping the swing arm pivot in line with the countershaft and axle. I'll bet someone can post a shot of Bob Hannah's '86 unadilla bike. He used it there .
This -



Pollock580
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4/16/2015 8:06pm
The concentric swing arm pivot and countershaft sprocket was the main issue no one liked the BMW 450. Aside from that it had a great, reliable motor, good features, good mass centralisation and quality components. The lack of suspension pre-load via the chain made it very strange to ride.
Mr Bean
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4/16/2015 8:16pm
Pollock580 wrote:
The concentric swing arm pivot and countershaft sprocket was the main issue no one liked the BMW 450. Aside from that it had a great, reliable...
The concentric swing arm pivot and countershaft sprocket was the main issue no one liked the BMW 450. Aside from that it had a great, reliable motor, good features, good mass centralisation and quality components. The lack of suspension pre-load via the chain made it very strange to ride.
Wasn't that the platform that David Knight railed about?

It makes you wonder how a person would do on the torque-eliminating designs if they never rode a traditional bike - if it's just a matter of familiarity.

Hannah obviously loved it but said it was best on rough, square-edged stuff and not well suited to SX where you need to preload the suspension a lot.
Johnny Depp
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4/16/2015 8:25pm
Electric. There is a video of a Tesla outrunning a Hellcat at the drag strip. Instant torque.
hvaughn88
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4/16/2015 9:09pm
Electric. There is a video of a Tesla outrunning a Hellcat at the drag strip. Instant torque.
Electric. There is a video of a Tesla outrunning a Hellcat at the drag strip. Instant torque.
Niche marketTongue
Mr Bean
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4/16/2015 9:27pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2015 9:28pm
Electric bikes - that's when I'm out.

I'll put an old Briggs in a frame and run it on K1 before I'll go the silent route.

Besides, how are PC, FMF, etc, supposed to sell overpriced pieces of bent and twisted metal made by illegals so they can become bajillionaires if they go electric? Are they going to push $10,000 armatures with Ti bolt kits and CF covers?
BobbyM
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4/16/2015 9:33pm
Mr Bean wrote:
Electric bikes - that's when I'm out. I'll put an old Briggs in a frame and run it on K1 before I'll go the silent route...
Electric bikes - that's when I'm out.

I'll put an old Briggs in a frame and run it on K1 before I'll go the silent route.

Besides, how are PC, FMF, etc, supposed to sell overpriced pieces of bent and twisted metal made by illegals so they can become bajillionaires if they go electric? Are they going to push $10,000 armatures with Ti bolt kits and CF covers?
I'd run bean oil too if I were you...
Pembroke36
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4/16/2015 9:34pm
peelout wrote:
Jump to conclusions mat, it's a mat with different conclusions that you can jump to
I got it, and liked it.

Mr Bean
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4/16/2015 9:39pm
BobbyM wrote:
I'd run bean oil too if I were you...
I see what you did there...


and yes, that's the only way to fly.
4/16/2015 9:50pm
Mr Bean wrote:
Electric bikes - that's when I'm out. I'll put an old Briggs in a frame and run it on K1 before I'll go the silent route...
Electric bikes - that's when I'm out.

I'll put an old Briggs in a frame and run it on K1 before I'll go the silent route.

Besides, how are PC, FMF, etc, supposed to sell overpriced pieces of bent and twisted metal made by illegals so they can become bajillionaires if they go electric? Are they going to push $10,000 armatures with Ti bolt kits and CF covers?
BobbyM wrote:
I'd run bean oil too if I were you...
Fuckin A.
Mr Bean
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4/16/2015 9:59pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2015 10:00pm
Mr Bean wrote:
Electric bikes - that's when I'm out. I'll put an old Briggs in a frame and run it on K1 before I'll go the silent route...
Electric bikes - that's when I'm out.

I'll put an old Briggs in a frame and run it on K1 before I'll go the silent route.

Besides, how are PC, FMF, etc, supposed to sell overpriced pieces of bent and twisted metal made by illegals so they can become bajillionaires if they go electric? Are they going to push $10,000 armatures with Ti bolt kits and CF covers?
BobbyM wrote:
I'd run bean oil too if I were you...
Fuckin A.
As if I don't already. Cool

The ladies all like the Bean oil.
The Rock
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4/16/2015 10:54pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2015 10:56pm
SLO1667 wrote:
Current generation MX bikes are FAR better than the POS works-bikes of the 80's...and by a long shot. This applies to mass-centralization, suspension, motor, EFI, brakes...
Current generation MX bikes are FAR better than the POS works-bikes of the 80's...and by a long shot. This applies to mass-centralization, suspension, motor, EFI, brakes, etc, etc.

MX sales are a pimple on the ass of Japan for the most part. Most of the dollars have gone into street bike innovation, but some of that trickles over to MX over time.
^^^^^^ 2nd paragraph apot on

I have never ridden a works bike so can't comment on your 1st paragraph.
JB 19
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4/16/2015 11:57pm
Electric is pretty intriguing. In rc cars you can tune in powerbands, mid range hit, top end pull and other interesting stuff. The issue I see is it would mainly be MX specific. I can't think you could get the range for a 50 mile off road ride and you would have to take multiple battery packs to the track.

On the plus side, it could really increase the popularity of dirt bikes since so many more riding areas could be opened up because noise wouldn't be an issue. Think 1970's were people sometimes had riding areas literally in the city limits.

And the 4 stroke haters would have to find something new to bitch about. Laughing

I'd say something like this is probably 15-20 years out though.....to the point where the foundation of the sport buys into it. In the RC world the electric cars can actually be faster than the nitro.
mark_swart
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4/17/2015 1:08am
JB 19 wrote:
Electric is pretty intriguing. In rc cars you can tune in powerbands, mid range hit, top end pull and other interesting stuff. The issue I see...
Electric is pretty intriguing. In rc cars you can tune in powerbands, mid range hit, top end pull and other interesting stuff. The issue I see is it would mainly be MX specific. I can't think you could get the range for a 50 mile off road ride and you would have to take multiple battery packs to the track.

On the plus side, it could really increase the popularity of dirt bikes since so many more riding areas could be opened up because noise wouldn't be an issue. Think 1970's were people sometimes had riding areas literally in the city limits.

And the 4 stroke haters would have to find something new to bitch about. Laughing

I'd say something like this is probably 15-20 years out though.....to the point where the foundation of the sport buys into it. In the RC world the electric cars can actually be faster than the nitro.
I think there is a very good case to be made for electric...the big question is when.
Steve125
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4/17/2015 5:44am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2015 5:46am
Mass lessenization (thanks KTM).. I also think they will all eventually go to a single cam for weight reasons.
and magnetic suspension will follow..

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