What's happening with my bike?

Edited Date/Time 9/14/2015 2:18pm
I put in a brand new OEM clutch the other day and have been riding 3 times since, the first time out my dad noticed that smell of a burnt out clutch as I've burnt one out before but that was after about 6 months of usage. I changed to my current clutch because I was noticing the over revving feeling of what we thought was a clutch being burnt out but I'm starting to think that's not the case. Riding today being the third ride on this new clutch I was experiencing the same old over revving sensation, every gear I went through it'd reach full revs within a very short amount of seconds yet still have barely any pull at all and I found myself going around practically the whole track in fifth gear. Oil, coolant, fuel etc. was all in check BTW. I looked into it a bit(without finding the solution Silly ) and I'm starting to think perhaps it's the transmission beginning or past beginning to go, I've made a habit of shifting gears without clutching due to racing and think that could be it. Dad and I aren't the most mechanically savvy when it comes to gearbox, bottom end and all that tricky stuff because we haven't had to go that deep yet and I only abuse the clutch throughout corners and stuff as much as the next racer so I don't think within 3 rides I've been impossibly severe on the clutch. Any help would be appreciated and for your info I have a 2011 YZ250F, should be making a long awaited upgrade soon though Cool
Cheers for any help boys!
|
wwoberg
Posts
741
Joined
11/19/2010
Location
Soddy Daisy, TN US
9/13/2015 3:52am
What kind of oil are you using? A friend once used oil with moly in it. Caught his mistake during the first ride but that clutch was never right after.
lostboy819
Posts
11520
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Somewhere, CO US
Fantasy
1342nd
9/13/2015 4:27am
A burnt clutch is easy to detect because the smell is unmistakable. If you smell the oil and it stinks and smells burnt then you cooked the new clutch already and unless you find the reason then it will happen again and there are lots of things that cause it from a tight cable to oils with Teflon to grooves in the basket and on some clutches there are different plates that going in a certain order so find the problem before you ruin clutch number three.
BobPA
Posts
8029
Joined
10/31/2013
Location
PA US
9/13/2015 4:39am
Is your cable adjusted properly? Make sure there is adequate free play in the clutch lever.
mxgreg85
Posts
58
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
NY US
9/13/2015 5:22am
As stated above, make sure your oil is wet clutch safe and cable properly adjusted. Are you installing new springs and torquing them to spec? Too weak springs would cause this problem if your motor is heavily modded or you tend to slip the clutch. Are you coating the fibers in oil and installing the pack fiber first, then alternating steel/fiber?

The Shop

9/13/2015 5:38am
BobPA wrote:
Is your cable adjusted properly? Make sure there is adequate free play in the clutch lever.
This - it sounds to me like the clutch is just slipping because it isn't adjusted properly. Set it so that it engages earlier when you're letting it out.
9/13/2015 5:39am
SOAK the fiber plates in oil before installing them, coating them woth oil is not enough, the fiber material is porous and will absorb oil and expand, thereby removing free play in the cable.
Xracerdone
Posts
468
Joined
9/6/2014
Location
Denver, CO US
9/13/2015 5:40am
My money says you replaced the clutch plates but not the basket? The basket is probably shot too
blusmbl
Posts
1283
Joined
3/19/2012
Location
Plymouth, MI US
9/13/2015 6:58am
Lots of good suggestions. As mentioned already, check the clutch basket for heavy notches. Definitely pre-soak the friction plates, if you didn't that would be a prime suspect. Also check the clutch adjustment, you may just have it too tight.

in my experience transmissions never slip a little. They are either engaged or freewheeling due to misalignment/broken pieces.
downard254
Posts
4055
Joined
12/10/2012
Location
Bremen, OH US
9/13/2015 7:07am
Just one weak spring could have adverse effect on clutch performance. Something I learned years ago is to never over look the simplest or most basic items, even if they're new parts.
9/13/2015 7:20am Edited Date/Time 9/13/2015 7:21am
I mostly use Penrite Racing 10W-50 Full Synthetic I think.

Freeplay is something I didn't look at closely enough, my lever is fairly tight aswell so I'll check that.

I soaked all the plates quite thoroughly.

We haven't touched the basket at all so that's a possibility, how regularly should one of those be replaced?

Springs I'm not positive on, we just placed them in there as per usual.

I'll go have a good look at all your suggestions tomorrow and get back to you guys, hopefully I didn't make this thread because of crappy cable adjustment Whistling Thanks for all the replies!


DPR250R
Posts
2129
Joined
9/14/2006
Location
NJ US
9/13/2015 7:21am
BobPA wrote:
Is your cable adjusted properly? Make sure there is adequate free play in the clutch lever.
This - it sounds to me like the clutch is just slipping because it isn't adjusted properly. Set it so that it engages earlier when you're...
This - it sounds to me like the clutch is just slipping because it isn't adjusted properly. Set it so that it engages earlier when you're letting it out.
Yup
DPR250R
Posts
2129
Joined
9/14/2006
Location
NJ US
9/13/2015 7:22am
I mostly use Penrite Racing 10W-50 Full Synthetic I think. Freeplay is something I didn't look at closely enough, my lever is fairly tight aswell so...
I mostly use Penrite Racing 10W-50 Full Synthetic I think.

Freeplay is something I didn't look at closely enough, my lever is fairly tight aswell so I'll check that.

I soaked all the plates quite thoroughly.

We haven't touched the basket at all so that's a possibility, how regularly should one of those be replaced?

Springs I'm not positive on, we just placed them in there as per usual.

I'll go have a good look at all your suggestions tomorrow and get back to you guys, hopefully I didn't make this thread because of crappy cable adjustment Whistling Thanks for all the replies!


We all had to learn at some point.

Some from from manuals, some from older riders and some from mistakes.
Xracerdone
Posts
468
Joined
9/6/2014
Location
Denver, CO US
9/13/2015 7:25am
I mostly use Penrite Racing 10W-50 Full Synthetic I think. Freeplay is something I didn't look at closely enough, my lever is fairly tight aswell so...
I mostly use Penrite Racing 10W-50 Full Synthetic I think.

Freeplay is something I didn't look at closely enough, my lever is fairly tight aswell so I'll check that.

I soaked all the plates quite thoroughly.

We haven't touched the basket at all so that's a possibility, how regularly should one of those be replaced?

Springs I'm not positive on, we just placed them in there as per usual.

I'll go have a good look at all your suggestions tomorrow and get back to you guys, hopefully I didn't make this thread because of crappy cable adjustment Whistling Thanks for all the replies!


It's not how regularly you change it it's when it needs it. I am positive your basket is to blame & you already burnt the new plates. You will see notching / small grooves in the basket sides that hold your plates in. It won't like much damage & will probably just look like lines from the plates resting there but that means it is smoked.
9/13/2015 7:31am
I mostly use Penrite Racing 10W-50 Full Synthetic I think. Freeplay is something I didn't look at closely enough, my lever is fairly tight aswell so...
I mostly use Penrite Racing 10W-50 Full Synthetic I think.

Freeplay is something I didn't look at closely enough, my lever is fairly tight aswell so I'll check that.

I soaked all the plates quite thoroughly.

We haven't touched the basket at all so that's a possibility, how regularly should one of those be replaced?

Springs I'm not positive on, we just placed them in there as per usual.

I'll go have a good look at all your suggestions tomorrow and get back to you guys, hopefully I didn't make this thread because of crappy cable adjustment Whistling Thanks for all the replies!


Xracerdone wrote:
It's not how regularly you change it it's when it needs it. I am positive your basket is to blame & you already burnt the new...
It's not how regularly you change it it's when it needs it. I am positive your basket is to blame & you already burnt the new plates. You will see notching / small grooves in the basket sides that hold your plates in. It won't like much damage & will probably just look like lines from the plates resting there but that means it is smoked.
I'll take the clutch apart tomorrow to see if the plates are toast and check that out while I'm at it, might take a few pics if the cam can pick any of it up. I've been looking and a basket should set me back about 200 Aus dollars which isn't as bad as I thought. Thanks for this.
hillbilly
Posts
9080
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Afton, TN US
9/13/2015 9:46am
Just because you have freeplay in the cable doesn't mean you have freeplay in the clutch.

The arm the cable hooks to on the engine is were you need freeplay.

It shoves on a rod that goes thru the center of the tranny shaft the basket runs on and pushes the pressure plate away from the plate stack.

As the pressure plate and hub wear it moves inward and can and will bottom out against that rod which makes the cluth slip.

There is an adjuster in the center of the pressure plate,a screw and lock nut,

Unhook the cable from the arm on the engine,if it has no freeplay that is the problem,loosen the locknut and back out the screw until there is a quarter inch of freeplay or so.
davis224
Posts
6256
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Cornland, IL US
Fantasy
138th
9/13/2015 9:50am
If your basket was bad, you would feel the herky-herky release of the plates getting caught up in the grooves.
hillbilly
Posts
9080
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Afton, TN US
9/13/2015 9:57am
9 times out of 10 this adjustment being off and the pressure plate bottomed out against the rod is what kills a clutch.

Most of the time there is a ball bearing at the rod end on the pressure plate side. The other end rides against the clutch arm and a ball will be there also. It rides against the flat face of the clutch arm .

The adjustment lets you find the sweet spot that gives the arm the most mechanical advantage its design will allow.

I always take the arm out and examine its design then modify it to give a one finger clutch pull. Over the years I've seen very bad designs there and even casting trash left over from the mold ,a bastard file and a little testing will get a easy clutch pull most times.
davis224
Posts
6256
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Cornland, IL US
Fantasy
138th
9/13/2015 9:57am
I looked up your oil, I don't see it specifically mentioning moly, but it looks like it has lots of additives, which to me says it likely has moly in it. Have you always used this oil, or did you just recently switch to it? I usually use just straight up, non synthetic, no additive oil in my gearbox, and keep it clean.
hillbilly
Posts
9080
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Afton, TN US
9/13/2015 10:00am
I mostly use Penrite Racing 10W-50 Full Synthetic I think. Freeplay is something I didn't look at closely enough, my lever is fairly tight aswell so...
I mostly use Penrite Racing 10W-50 Full Synthetic I think.

Freeplay is something I didn't look at closely enough, my lever is fairly tight aswell so I'll check that.

I soaked all the plates quite thoroughly.

We haven't touched the basket at all so that's a possibility, how regularly should one of those be replaced?

Springs I'm not positive on, we just placed them in there as per usual.

I'll go have a good look at all your suggestions tomorrow and get back to you guys, hopefully I didn't make this thread because of crappy cable adjustment Whistling Thanks for all the replies!


Xracerdone wrote:
It's not how regularly you change it it's when it needs it. I am positive your basket is to blame & you already burnt the new...
It's not how regularly you change it it's when it needs it. I am positive your basket is to blame & you already burnt the new plates. You will see notching / small grooves in the basket sides that hold your plates in. It won't like much damage & will probably just look like lines from the plates resting there but that means it is smoked.
I'll take the clutch apart tomorrow to see if the plates are toast and check that out while I'm at it, might take a few pics...
I'll take the clutch apart tomorrow to see if the plates are toast and check that out while I'm at it, might take a few pics if the cam can pick any of it up. I've been looking and a basket should set me back about 200 Aus dollars which isn't as bad as I thought. Thanks for this.
atake a pic of the pressure plate adjuster ,and ,dont loose that ball bearing that is inside it.
disbanded
Posts
6105
Joined
8/26/2007
Location
Denver, CO US
Fantasy
1676th
9/13/2015 10:04am
Righty tighty, lefty loosey, I think.
BobPA
Posts
8029
Joined
10/31/2013
Location
PA US
9/13/2015 10:05am
A worn inner hub will also cause your symptoms. Luckily clutches are pretty easy to diagnose
hillbilly
Posts
9080
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Afton, TN US
9/13/2015 10:09am
davis224 wrote:
I looked up your oil, I don't see it specifically mentioning moly, but it looks like it has lots of additives, which to me says it...
I looked up your oil, I don't see it specifically mentioning moly, but it looks like it has lots of additives, which to me says it likely has moly in it. Have you always used this oil, or did you just recently switch to it? I usually use just straight up, non synthetic, no additive oil in my gearbox, and keep it clean.
He needs to do what i posted.

I always run ATF ,walmart brand,cheaper the better,what money I saved goes to beer and cigs.

Automatic trannys have clutch packs just like a bike and it works the best.
gsxr6
Posts
1956
Joined
9/3/2011
Location
Anderson, CA US
9/13/2015 10:20am Edited Date/Time 9/13/2015 10:21am
Atf is nice. If ur gonna shift with no clutch,use gear saver. I have never had a problem. With either( lil more snap with atf as it doesn't slow the engine.) Forgive me if I'm wrong, but yz250f have only one oil fill/drain on bottom end right? If so, don't use atf. Trans/clutch will be fine, but the lower end bearings need real oil . on a two stroke, atf is great. I'd never run it in my four stroke tho......
9/13/2015 10:30am
I mostly use Penrite Racing 10W-50 Full Synthetic I think. Freeplay is something I didn't look at closely enough, my lever is fairly tight aswell so...
I mostly use Penrite Racing 10W-50 Full Synthetic I think.

Freeplay is something I didn't look at closely enough, my lever is fairly tight aswell so I'll check that.

I soaked all the plates quite thoroughly.

We haven't touched the basket at all so that's a possibility, how regularly should one of those be replaced?

Springs I'm not positive on, we just placed them in there as per usual.

I'll go have a good look at all your suggestions tomorrow and get back to you guys, hopefully I didn't make this thread because of crappy cable adjustment Whistling Thanks for all the replies!


Your basket probably has grooves in it. If it does it needs replaced.
hillbilly
Posts
9080
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Afton, TN US
9/13/2015 10:39am
gsxr6 wrote:
Atf is nice. If ur gonna shift with no clutch,use gear saver. I have never had a problem. With either( lil more snap with atf as...
Atf is nice. If ur gonna shift with no clutch,use gear saver. I have never had a problem. With either( lil more snap with atf as it doesn't slow the engine.) Forgive me if I'm wrong, but yz250f have only one oil fill/drain on bottom end right? If so, don't use atf. Trans/clutch will be fine, but the lower end bearings need real oil . on a two stroke, atf is great. I'd never run it in my four stroke tho......
True,not for crankshaft side of the engine, be no extra money for beer and cigs then.
Bret
Posts
819
Joined
8/10/2008
Location
Mission Viejo, CA US
9/13/2015 10:52am
I put in a brand new OEM clutch the other day and have been riding 3 times since, the first time out my dad noticed that...
I put in a brand new OEM clutch the other day and have been riding 3 times since, the first time out my dad noticed that smell of a burnt out clutch as I've burnt one out before but that was after about 6 months of usage. I changed to my current clutch because I was noticing the over revving feeling of what we thought was a clutch being burnt out but I'm starting to think that's not the case. Riding today being the third ride on this new clutch I was experiencing the same old over revving sensation, every gear I went through it'd reach full revs within a very short amount of seconds yet still have barely any pull at all and I found myself going around practically the whole track in fifth gear. Oil, coolant, fuel etc. was all in check BTW. I looked into it a bit(without finding the solution Silly ) and I'm starting to think perhaps it's the transmission beginning or past beginning to go, I've made a habit of shifting gears without clutching due to racing and think that could be it. Dad and I aren't the most mechanically savvy when it comes to gearbox, bottom end and all that tricky stuff because we haven't had to go that deep yet and I only abuse the clutch throughout corners and stuff as much as the next racer so I don't think within 3 rides I've been impossibly severe on the clutch. Any help would be appreciated and for your info I have a 2011 YZ250F, should be making a long awaited upgrade soon though Cool
Cheers for any help boys!
I would check the cable adjustment first since it was probably adjusted to compensate for a worn clutch.
The Rock
Posts
8763
Joined
3/21/2007
Location
HAIKU, HI US
9/13/2015 3:22pm
Fingers are Supposed to look like: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/09/13/104861/s1200_image.jpg[/img] not supposed to look like: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/09/13/104862/s1200_image.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/09/13/104863/s1200_image.jpg[/img]
Fingers are Supposed to look like:


not supposed to look like:





Cat looks like he's in the Feline Witness Protection Program and isn't pumped his face got put out on the Internet
mxwrench66
Posts
220
Joined
5/22/2008
Location
Ozark, MO US
9/13/2015 4:13pm
Sounds like you just need stiffer clutch springs or could've possible left out a clutch plate.
BAMX
Posts
2842
Joined
1/22/2012
Location
Fallbrook, CA US
9/13/2015 4:43pm
davis224 wrote:
I looked up your oil, I don't see it specifically mentioning moly, but it looks like it has lots of additives, which to me says it...
I looked up your oil, I don't see it specifically mentioning moly, but it looks like it has lots of additives, which to me says it likely has moly in it. Have you always used this oil, or did you just recently switch to it? I usually use just straight up, non synthetic, no additive oil in my gearbox, and keep it clean.
hillbilly wrote:
He needs to do what i posted. I always run ATF ,walmart brand,cheaper the better,what money I saved goes to beer and cigs. Automatic trannys have...
He needs to do what i posted.

I always run ATF ,walmart brand,cheaper the better,what money I saved goes to beer and cigs.

Automatic trannys have clutch packs just like a bike and it works the best.
His bike shares oil engine/trans. He needs a JASO MA oil. I used Motorex Top Speed 4T when I had a 4T and the motor never showed much wear. Everyone has their favorites but that is my two cents.

Post a reply to: What's happening with my bike?

The Latest