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Did I say that enough in this thread? Because it's true. The guy is just all class. Just a great dude.
But I don't think anyone here said "Stewart would've beaten him anyway". I know I didn't. I said that Stewart would've tried harder to beat him, but may have crashed trying to do it. Or he may have beaten Everts.
What's for sure, though, is that Stewart that day was NOT the Stewart that had raced all year in America. Period.
http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/AMA-vs-GPs,1224753
The Shop
Never heard of a bad holeshot,but I have heard of a bad start.
The first two motos were slick and snotty, no way our guys were going to take chances in those motos they just needed to finish with a good result. The third moto RV&RD knew what they had to do and they did it. Great job team USA.
IMHO. Rv is the fastest MXer in the world. RD is a super close second (faster than he was last year) with carolli third.
What would people have said about RC if in 2003 he had said "it's a pity Stefan didn't race for the individual win?"
Though Im not really sure why you wanted to try and make AMA vs GP comparisons anyway, consider that many of the AMA riders in question came from the GP's.
As for qualifiers,AC won his ok last year beating Dungey on home soil,and as for coming through the pack etc,he did that too,a 7th place start to catching up to Dungey and trying to pass the guy,he was slamming that triple and eased it off
All this talk of going flat out as they have nothing to lose is Crap,they can't win as a team either so sometimes there's not much to gain by going balls out
Again its always guys like Roczen,then Herlings no doubt going over to America to do their series,but if Baggett is the fastest American,how would he do if he did the exact same thing in parallel and raced a whole GP season with tracks like that,indifferent weather and conditions and in 12 diferrent countries,not all his own?
Yeah,yeah it probably won't happen but its a very fair way to test an American,just like the Euros are always tested
At the end of the day the Americans were great,but didn't over impress me,afterall they were 1 hiccup away from going down in the last moto
,
Here's an explanation:
Cairoli - Got beat by Ryan Dungey in the qualifiers, they both got good starts, and Dungey won, on a track he has never raced on. At the same time, Cairoli has raced multiple times on this track. In the first moto, crashed on the start, his own fault, and took Bagget with him. Cairoli then got up, rode over his head, and crashed himself out of contention, and breaking his hand in the process. In the third race, he tried to come back out, but had nothing for the Americans, who would eventually go on and take it with a 1-2 finish. (Just like last year, when Desalle, Frossard, etc were all there)
Desalle - Crashed himself out of contention, but as Jamma likes to make comparisons, talking about how Desalle beat Stewart last year. REMEMBER, Desalle got beat by Dungey last year, by a large margin. Desalle beat Stewart yes, but it was Stewart's first race back that year. Not taking anything away from Desalle, but he still didn't beat Dungey. At the Motocross of nations 2010, Desalle got beat by Dungey and Short both in the final moto (Short isn't nearly as fast as Villopoto, therefore if Desalle would have raced this year, he most likely would have gotten beat by Villopoto, if you want to keep making comparisons Jamma, I can go all day.) Short was also ahead of Desalle in the 2nd moto last year before being taken out by Townley.
Frossard - Same as Desalle, crashed himself out of contention before the event even started!
Pourcel - Got beat by Dungey in the qualifiers, in moto 1 he pulled off the track for more goggles, giving up valuable points. He could have, and should have sucked it up and raced without goggles... Reed and Dungey both did, and so did Roczen in the 2nd moto, when a rock hit his roll off canister and forced him to race without goggles. Reed, Dungey, and Roczen did it without goggles, so therefore, Pourcel could have done the same. In the 3rd moto of the day, Pourcel's tire had problems, again this is not America's fault, like Jamma is trying to make it seem. It is Pourcel's mechanics... Jamma said himself "how often does that happen?" My answer? NEVER. Lots of GP riders ride with the same style tire and had no problems. So it must mean his mechanic didn't do something right.
America won. For the 7th year straight. Quit with the "ifs ands and buts", we won, we have the most wins, and we also started attending the motocross of nations much later than any other country. Yet we still have the most wins, that should tell you something.
Try harder next year Europe, because out of the other 12 countries that line up against the US, not one of you can beat us. It's America vs the World every year, and we continue to come out on top, again and again and again.
GO AMERICA!
Those are the key words, they come over here for a reason. Again, as in my previous post, it's not America's nor the AMAs fault that 2 of your GP riders crashed themselves out.
America did just fine last year when Villopoto was out, and Stewart wasn't racing, that's 2 of our fastest guys, and we still managed to win.
Canard and Stewart weren't at the event this year (since we can only field a 3 man team) So that makes it even, we didn't have 2 of our riders, you didn't have 2 of yours. Yours weren't there because they crashed themselves out.
Again, AMERICA WON GET OVER IT. Damn you just ramble on every year, and say "wait til' next year" And next year, same thing happens. just SHUT UP ALREADY, we get that you hate that the Americans win every year.
Also, there is a big difference between America sweeping the podium (which only has 3 riders) vs GP riders sweeping the podium (which is MUCH more than 3 riders, last time I checked, GP was not a country)
Comparing "GP riders" (which is probably close to 20 riders) to American riders (which is 3) is completely stupid.
The 3 GP riders in 2009 to sweep the podium were not all from the same country. America's riders that swept it this year, were all from the same country. So there goes your stupid little arguement.
Remember when, in 2009, we sent TWO Lites guys, because the 450 guys were all hurt or didn't want to go?
Team USA sent this 250F racer Ryan Dungey and put him on a 450 for the first time, because we had no other choice. Then sent the second-best American 250F racer, Jake Weimer, to race MX2. And Team USA sent Ivan Tedesco mainly because he was an MXdN veteran and the other two were rookies.
USA had a lot of injuries.
AND THEY WON.
I do not have to be a rocket scientist to know the Americans won, and because they win year after year, they dominate. Come back and talk to me when the Euros win.
Pit Row
Holeshot
"Once a driver commits a red-light foul (also known as ‘redlighting’), the other driver can also commit a foul start by leaving the line too early but still win, having left later. Should both drivers leave after the green light illuminates, the one leaving first is said to have a "holeshot advantage".
Holeshot win
The winner is the first vehicle to cross the finish line (and therefore the driver with the lowest total reaction time + elapsed time). The elapsed time is a measure of performance only; it does not necessarily determine the winner. Because elapsed time does not include reaction time and each lane is timed individually, a car with a slower elapsed time can actually win if that driver's holeshot advantage exceeds the elapsed time difference. This is known as a "holeshot win".
It is not some line or to the first turn as AMA SX would have us to believe, it is the jump of the gate.
But the Euros don't need to know this, what they need to know that Americans won. They dominate the MXON, they dominate the sport in general and they are the fastests riders. And if you are figuring the AMA, then we have the fastest riders world wide.
This is from a guy who says he went to the USGP and didn't know who anyone was riding,the USA won as we saw and if anyone didn't they can take a look on here and be told again,again and again,but everyone predicted that anyhow,except many predicted them to go 1-2 every race on Sunday,many said they just couldn't see anyone getting anywhere near them at all,winning by a mile as they do in the AMA,but as we saw,they didn't,their 2 fastest guys that absolutely destroy the competition back home got beat by some up and coming kids,and from what I saw they all started on the same start line.Maybe some are frustrated a little knowing that a whole bunch of fast guys who were eligeble for the race were not there and some others that were had problems and had DNFs for whatever reasons.
Yes a lot of the good AMA guys do come from GP racing,in fact they are only in the AMA by virtue of racing in Europe,how many would have gone straight to the Nationals from their home series,not many Aussies,French,or South Africans etc
One underestimate for me was RV when he made a bad start in the 2nd Moto,he went from 15th to 2nd which was pretty good except,with all due respect,he raced the 250s and MX3 boys (who a lot were on 450s for the first time too),there were no MX1 boys there at all,Roczen still finished only 2 seconds behind him too,as for 8 seconds a lap faster? even in that race I didn't see a domination,far from it
How many times have we seen guys like Desalle and AC come from bad starts in the GP feild,except the feild is way more stacked with fast guys look at the laptimes,the too 10 can be within a few seconds of each other,and that's why it throws up more winners,its harder to push through,like RV found out and that feild definitely wasn't stacked at all,though,but take nothing away from him it was a great ride all the same,even Bobby gave the Ryans more trouble than they get back home when they battled
There was definitely a realization that the GP boys are way faster than some people though,a wake up call,those guys who put 8 seconds a lap at home and win by over a minute wouldn't be doing that in a GP series,as awesome as they are
Before the race,if Euros would have said the Dungey would have been beaten by Roczen on a 250 and RV beaten by Paulin and Herlings on a 350,they'd have been flamed to high heaven and told it would never happen in a million years
But moving on to you're new statement....
Paulin - also a Lites rider - also won his first race riding a 450 at the 2009 MXdN... and was then taken out on the 2nd or third corner of the last race.
I referred earlier to the incidents in that race that almost certainly helped to pave the way for TeamUSA's successes. Weimer, Tedesco & Dungey were lucky enough not to have been in the firing line of any kamikaze riders on the track in 2009, that was the difference. If Tedesco or Dungey been taken out in the same way Paulin or Cairoli were would they have still won with a 25th place and a DNF? I don't think so. Likewise this weekend and a reversal of fortunes regarding a tire malfunction.
Its a lot of 'ifs and buts' I know, but when your team wins its easy to ignore or forget the contributing factors as inconsequential, which they're simply not, they have a huge impact. Americans don't debate these things the way they debate the 2011 450 championship for example, because their guys won. Its surplus to what they need to concern themselves with, which is simply that their team won.
If you were impartial you might be able to recognise this.
Where have I said "Wait till next year"?
Where have I said "I hate the Americans"?
Where have I suggested the AMA is an inferior series?
Im discussing some of the incidents that have contributed towards the results in recent years, and in a perfectly reasonable fashion too thanks!
It seems you're the one getting all irate and worked up. I love American riders, I love the AMA and I love watching TeamUSA. I made sure I went and applauded them on the podium on Sunday. I have nothing but absolute admiration for those guys.
(Canard crashed himself out of contention too, just like 'ours' did, if you remember...)
I made one fleeting comment in response to a post regarding Stewart. It wasn't a grand statement and believe if Stewart was still riding outdoors and in top form I doubt anyone could beat him unless he crashed.
At the Motocross of nations 2010, Desalle got beat by Dungey and Short both in the final moto
Desalle had only just returned from injury a week prior to the event. He did quiet well considering.
Pourcel's tire had problems, again this is not America's fault, like Jamma is trying to make it seem. It is Pourcel's mechanics... Jamma said himself "how often does that happen?" My answer? NEVER. Lots of GP riders ride with the same style tire and had no problems. So it must mean his mechanic didn't do something right.
Pourcels tire was fitted by Pirrelli, as all their tires are, not his mechanic and if you read Xaviers post in this thread you'll realise both the possible reason for the malfunction and the severity of the situation.
America won. For the 7th year straight.
Congratulations Team USA.
Much like motocross really, I don't have much of an allegiance to anyone. But don't tell the Americans that, they think I hate them because I occasionally discuss the finer points...
it just seems that, that stuff doesn't happen to the US (yeah yeah preparation shut up) and happens to everyone else always some little (or big) stupid problem that never happens will happen.. or what IF one of the Ryans got injured and I'm stoked that neither were but IF, you guys would have sent who? Alessi? Weimer again still a strong team and would still be a favourite (obviously) but it would've definately slimmed the chances of a 1-2 in moto 3
I say that you don't have good luck in MX but you can definately have bad
but all that said it doesn't effect me one bit who wins or loses I'm happy Aus got on the podium and annoyed me a little that US won again haha but only cause it happens every year and I knew what this place would be like (granted it's only one or two tools that are over the top) but that's as far as it goes with me
I wonder what some of you get out of it like it somehow improves your life that 3 kids from your country beat 3 kids from another country
what does my sig say....
Post a reply to: What sets Team USA apart? Luck? Not even close.