What is everyones thoughts on the track being over groomed and too smooth for the start of both 450 motos??

THROTTLE
Profile picture for user THROTTLE
Posts
100
Joined
6/16/2009
Location
Huntington Beach, CA US
THROTTLE
Edited Date/Time 1/25/2012 10:09am
I feel the track was way over groomed! They were flat haul'n ass in the start of both races! What happend to the good old days when they left the tracks rough!!!! It needs to be like that again!!! Chad hasn't won a good rough track yet!
|
WhKnuckle
Profile picture for user WhKnuckle
Posts
7327
Joined
7/17/2007
Location
TX US
WhKnuckle 7/19/2009 8:29am
7/19/2009 8:29am
I don't know that it benefits any particular rider, but if you want smooth race tracks, buy a Harley and go flat tracking. It's ridiculous. Motocross is, by definition, a natural terrain sport, and grooming the track until it's as flat as a pancake is idiotic. Plus, it's dangerous - when a guy crashes on a flat, smooth track, he's always going faster. Nobody wants to hear another "good old days" rant, but guys rode much rougher tracks back when they had 4" of rear end travel and Girling shocks.

Why put 12" travel $100K suspension on a motocross bike and then go ride a glorified TT track on it?
mxdad
Profile picture for user mxdad
Posts
482
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
WI US
mxdad 7/19/2009 8:37am
7/19/2009 8:37am
They left the majority of the track alone between motos. They must have packed the dirt harder on the huge jump faces because they did not rut up as bad as prior years. That track was brutaly rough by the end of both 450 motos. Add in the 65 whoops section and the 3 huge triples, 100' double, all the tables, 150' elevation drops, etc and that track was crazy challenging. Maybe you watched it on the internet or tv where you can't see the track because everything is filmed from 30' in the air instead of ground level. Live it was a different story. They did an amazing job changing that track this year. Right up there with Red Bud in the air time catagory and dirt quality.

Every swinging dick on this earth had a chance to win the 2009 AMA 450 title. Chad Reed is the only man alive to be doing so.

ThePipe
Profile picture for user ThePipe
Posts
1836
Joined
8/2/2006
Location
Hell WI pop 1, WI US
ThePipe 7/19/2009 9:14am
7/19/2009 9:14am
Didn't look over groomed to me and I was trackside.

It was nice to see the Jump faces groomed.
Dogger
Profile picture for user Dogger
Posts
488
Joined
2/6/2009
Location
Wake Forest, NC US
Dogger 7/19/2009 9:31am
7/19/2009 9:31am
I think the track looked great on TV. That's what we need is good TV to help get some money into the sport right now.

The Shop

See All »
THROTTLE
Profile picture for user THROTTLE
Posts
100
Joined
6/16/2009
Location
Huntington Beach, CA US
THROTTLE 7/19/2009 9:47am
7/19/2009 9:47am
Dogger wrote:
I think the track looked great on TV. That's what we need is good TV to help get some money into the sport right now.
Yeah it looked good for TV It looked like a big SX track stretched out a long 10 acres!!!
Dogger
Profile picture for user Dogger
Posts
488
Joined
2/6/2009
Location
Wake Forest, NC US
Dogger 7/19/2009 9:54am
7/19/2009 9:54am
Dogger wrote:
I think the track looked great on TV. That's what we need is good TV to help get some money into the sport right now.
THROTTLE wrote:
Yeah it looked good for TV It looked like a big SX track stretched out a long 10 acres!!!
precisely, and that's why SX historically has had a better TV package. All the money goes to SX.

I like the high speed action.
FLmxer
Profile picture for user FLmxer
Posts
6937
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
SouthWest, FL US
Fantasy
898th
FLmxer 7/19/2009 10:07am
7/19/2009 10:07am
I thought the TV action was good but was thinking did they just groom the whole track in between motos? It was pretty bad at the end but motocross should be left alone. The track changes all day and every lap and that is one of the greatest aspects of this sport. Think how many amatuer motos are run during a race weekend where the track is not groomed at all. If you ever ride at a track with just pros the turns are perfect and the lines are in the right spot so it makes the track easier, quite the oposite on an am track. Either way I am digging the footage. I personaly like it rough and hot but that might be a Florida thing.
hillbilly
Profile picture for user hillbilly
Posts
9080
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Afton, TN US
hillbilly 7/19/2009 11:30am
7/19/2009 11:30am
for grant to make up as much ground as he did on a track that smooth with "pin it and grin" corners is amazing,damn amazing.
race
Profile picture for user race
Posts
3447
Joined
8/26/2006
Location
CA US
race 7/19/2009 12:49pm
7/19/2009 12:49pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 12:59am
Were the whoops shallower than in past years?


In general, I think all of the US tracks seem to have gotten wider, flatter and smoother. In particular, technical / difficult doubles have almost disappeared ... replaced by easier tables.


Not sure if this is because of the 450s or to not have to redo the track for the amateurs .... but the tracks today are what everyone complained that the GP tracks were like a dozen years ago.




bullpen58
Profile picture for user bullpen58
Posts
4400
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Fresno, CA US
bullpen58 7/19/2009 1:06pm
7/19/2009 1:06pm
None of us are allowed any thoughts on this topic since none of us are former AMA champions. Sheesh, you people crack me up with your "opinions" and such.
Ozzy
Profile picture for user Ozzy
Posts
1103
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Santa Clarita , CA US
Ozzy 7/19/2009 3:02pm
7/19/2009 3:02pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 12:59am
"Throttles" 100% correct!
However, a WINS a WIN!
No disrespect to Reed, & Congrats....!
I've been to Millville since Day 1.
Never before have I seen it so so fast.
Total roadrace.
Not the norm for that place at all.
Sure it's all relative & the same for ALL,
but leave it alone.........Prep the starts,
& let the rest be MOTOCROSS.
Dave O. Wink
The Rock
Profile picture for user The Rock
Posts
8763
Joined
3/21/2007
Location
HAIKU, HI US
The Rock 7/19/2009 5:08pm
7/19/2009 5:08pm
ThePipe wrote:
Didn't look over groomed to me and I was trackside.

It was nice to see the Jump faces groomed.
Grooming jump faces will help reduce the "thinning of the herd" phenomena associated with injuries.

race-Do you go to Glen Helen or watch the race on TV? I totally disagree the National tracks have gotten less technical over the years. Racers have improved and make it look easier but these tracks are still extremely difficult for most mere mortals to ride fast.
GuyB
Profile picture for user GuyB
Posts
35699
Joined
7/10/2006
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA US
Fantasy
988th
GuyB 7/19/2009 5:16pm
7/19/2009 5:16pm
I'd be curious how this year's lap times compared to last year.
The Rock
Profile picture for user The Rock
Posts
8763
Joined
3/21/2007
Location
HAIKU, HI US
The Rock 7/19/2009 5:19pm
7/19/2009 5:19pm
GuyB wrote:
I'd be curious how this year's lap times compared to last year.
Didn't they change the course some?
Alex
Profile picture for user Alex
Posts
1650
Joined
7/3/2008
Location
GB
Alex 7/19/2009 5:31pm
7/19/2009 5:31pm
Ramons neck injury at Valkenswaard was a direct result of a sketchy jump take off. If you watch the footage almost everyone had big endo on that double. Tracks have to be left to develop naturally but I agree 100% that cant apply to takeoffs.
Guzzler
Profile picture for user Guzzler
Posts
352
Joined
2/2/2009
Location
Jensen Beach, FL US
Guzzler 7/19/2009 5:40pm
7/19/2009 5:40pm
i think that grooming the jumpface is somewhat a good idea. the track did look super fast on tv. It doesn't really matter the best guys are going to be upfront.
GuyB
Profile picture for user GuyB
Posts
35699
Joined
7/10/2006
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA US
Fantasy
988th
GuyB 7/19/2009 5:50pm
7/19/2009 5:50pm
GuyB wrote:
I'd be curious how this year's lap times compared to last year.
The Rock wrote:
Didn't they change the course some?
Yes...but close to an under two-minute lap time?

Pit Row

See All »
MXTR
Profile picture for user MXTR
Posts
636
Joined
5/7/2008
Location
US
MXTR 7/19/2009 6:48pm
7/19/2009 6:48pm
GuyB wrote:
I'd be curious how this year's lap times compared to last year.
Well, I looked at the archive results from last year on Alli. If you throw out JS7's time for obvious reasons (2:12) in the second moto, I believe the fastest lap for some of the other guys were 2:17's.

This year, Chad Reed's fastest lap time in the second moto was 2:03. So I would say that, if the track was relatively the same, then yes it was much faster with it smooth.

I thought I heard that they made the whoop section longer this year. Anybody know the differences?
mxtryon231
Profile picture for user mxtryon231
Posts
1891
Joined
2/9/2009
Location
Beverly Hills, CA US
mxtryon231 7/19/2009 7:31pm
7/19/2009 7:31pm
regardless.. it was some good racing and the jumps looked fun. Sucks to be a privateer in the 250 class on a freeway though.. those factory bikes were pullin away quick!!
zookrider62!
Profile picture for user zookrider62!
Posts
5920
Joined
12/22/2008
Location
Plano, TX US
Fantasy
719th
zookrider62! 7/19/2009 7:51pm
7/19/2009 7:51pm
GuyB wrote:
I'd be curious how this year's lap times compared to last year.
MXTR wrote:
Well, I looked at the archive results from last year on Alli. If you throw out JS7's time for obvious reasons (2:12) in the second moto...
Well, I looked at the archive results from last year on Alli. If you throw out JS7's time for obvious reasons (2:12) in the second moto, I believe the fastest lap for some of the other guys were 2:17's.

This year, Chad Reed's fastest lap time in the second moto was 2:03. So I would say that, if the track was relatively the same, then yes it was much faster with it smooth.

I thought I heard that they made the whoop section longer this year. Anybody know the differences?
5 more whoops each way, but from watching on the internet, they looked way more shallow from years back. I went 2 years ago, and they added some big jumps this year.
THROTTLE
Profile picture for user THROTTLE
Posts
100
Joined
6/16/2009
Location
Huntington Beach, CA US
THROTTLE 7/19/2009 9:07pm
7/19/2009 9:07pm
Well i just got in the house from enjoying a beautiful day here at the beach and i can see that most people agree with me about the track conditions this weekend !Smile
THROTTLE
Profile picture for user THROTTLE
Posts
100
Joined
6/16/2009
Location
Huntington Beach, CA US
THROTTLE 7/19/2009 9:13pm
7/19/2009 9:13pm
Ozzy wrote:
"Throttles" 100% correct! However, a WINS a WIN! No disrespect to Reed, & Congrats....! I've been to Millville since Day 1. Never before have I seen...
"Throttles" 100% correct!
However, a WINS a WIN!
No disrespect to Reed, & Congrats....!
I've been to Millville since Day 1.
Never before have I seen it so so fast.
Total roadrace.
Not the norm for that place at all.
Sure it's all relative & the same for ALL,
but leave it alone.........Prep the starts,
& let the rest be MOTOCROSS.
Dave O. Wink
Also!!! No disrespect to CR!! Dave O. your right a win is a win!!! But I would like to see Chad prove to me he can win on a rough ass track! Smile
BlackForestCO 7/19/2009 9:28pm
7/19/2009 9:28pm
ThePipe wrote:
Didn't look over groomed to me and I was trackside.

It was nice to see the Jump faces groomed.
I was also track side and I felt the track was worked on wayyyy too much. I don't mind smoothing the faces of jumps, but leave some damn bumps on the track for christ sake, this is supposed to be motocross.
THROTTLE
Profile picture for user THROTTLE
Posts
100
Joined
6/16/2009
Location
Huntington Beach, CA US
THROTTLE 7/19/2009 9:35pm
7/19/2009 9:35pm
ThePipe wrote:
Didn't look over groomed to me and I was trackside.

It was nice to see the Jump faces groomed.
BlackForestCO wrote:
I was also track side and I felt the track was worked on wayyyy too much. I don't mind smoothing the faces of jumps, but leave...
I was also track side and I felt the track was worked on wayyyy too much. I don't mind smoothing the faces of jumps, but leave some damn bumps on the track for christ sake, this is supposed to be motocross.
Word! Smile Thats what i'm talking about!
roost251
Profile picture for user roost251
Posts
487
Joined
3/15/2009
Location
Valentine, AZ US
roost251 7/19/2009 9:41pm
7/19/2009 9:41pm
it should not be rougher/ tougher for the AM. than it its with the pros. They are the best of the best right. I think it is a consensus, too smooth than back in the day when the bikes were half as good. Even DB thinks so.
Dadof3
Profile picture for user Dadof3
Posts
52
Joined
7/20/2009
Location
Topeka, KS US
Dadof3 7/20/2009 6:46am
7/20/2009 6:46am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 1:00am
I stood on the inside of the corner just before the HS jump. The 450s made a line up the outside of the face. The take off line they made was probably 2-3 ft shorter than the original face. Their left grip had to be inches from the fake lucas oil container.


Right after the moto they had the skid loader and dozer come in and destroy it. The dozer made two berms in the corner and the skid loader pulled all the dirt back onto the face. Then they placed the yellow acerbis markers all the way up that side of the jump.


On the 250 sight lap, Pourcel rides over the top of the marker that was on that line, goosed it and sent it flying. Pretty funny.
roost251
Profile picture for user roost251
Posts
487
Joined
3/15/2009
Location
Valentine, AZ US
roost251 7/20/2009 11:39pm
7/20/2009 11:39pm
I like what chad had to say about the tracks being too smooth, rc also.
Ashleymx
Profile picture for user Ashleymx
Posts
694
Joined
8/12/2008
Location
Cumming, GA US
Ashleymx 7/21/2009 1:16am
7/21/2009 1:16am
I was dissapointed last year to fly half way around the world to see the best riders on the planet race Southwick only to find it was smooth. I want to be impressed. I want to show non motos friends how knarly MX is. If I can get around the track its too easy!
Highsider
Profile picture for user Highsider
Posts
7680
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Way Toasty, IA US
Highsider 7/21/2009 6:09am
7/21/2009 6:09am Edited Date/Time 7/21/2009 6:58am
Dadof3 wrote:
I stood on the inside of the corner just before the HS jump. The 450s made a line up the outside of the face. The take...
I stood on the inside of the corner just before the HS jump. The 450s made a line up the outside of the face. The take off line they made was probably 2-3 ft shorter than the original face. Their left grip had to be inches from the fake lucas oil container.


Right after the moto they had the skid loader and dozer come in and destroy it. The dozer made two berms in the corner and the skid loader pulled all the dirt back onto the face. Then they placed the yellow acerbis markers all the way up that side of the jump.


On the 250 sight lap, Pourcel rides over the top of the marker that was on that line, goosed it and sent it flying. Pretty funny.
I saw Pourcel "create" that line and roost the marker...funny.
The new finish line section is faster by a couple of seconds, than in past years. They took out a slow dog-leg.

Saturday it was smoother than am practice and races.

Post a reply to: What is everyones thoughts on the track being over groomed and too smooth for the start of both 450 motos??