What effect would longer practice have?

JW381
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Edited Date/Time 1/27/2014 8:13pm
Do you think more track time, especially free practice, would encourage the track builders to build tougher tracks, knowing the riders will have more time to dial it in both in a riding sense and bike setup? Do you think the riders would be in favor of more practice and more technical/tougher tracks?

I'm not pondering this out of no where, the thought came to me when I considered most of the top guy's private tracks. They're all pretty gnarly and technical, a lot more so than the stuff they race on Saturday. Is the difference solely the fact that they're practicing at home during the week and racing on Saturday, or is it because they have unlimited time to piece together the track and perfect each section?
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500guy
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1/23/2014 9:53am
The track size is all about the floor space and amount of dirt Feld is allowed to use. it has nothing to do with someone figuring out the track, it's professional racing the riders need to be able to do everything before they get there.
Madmax31
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1/23/2014 10:02am
More riders on the injury list.
cmarona463
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1/23/2014 11:19am
500guy wrote:
The track size is all about the floor space and amount of dirt Feld is allowed to use. it has nothing to do with someone figuring...
The track size is all about the floor space and amount of dirt Feld is allowed to use. it has nothing to do with someone figuring out the track, it's professional racing the riders need to be able to do everything before they get there.
He's not talking about the size of the track. He's talking about the technicality of the obstacles
Katoomey
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1/23/2014 11:47am
Madmax31 wrote:
More riders on the injury list.
that was my first thought for sure, especially if were talking qualifying practice and not free practice.

The Shop

JW381
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1/23/2014 11:57am
Madmax31 wrote:
More riders on the injury list.
Katoomey wrote:
that was my first thought for sure, especially if were talking qualifying practice and not free practice.
I did specifically say free practice tho.

And yes, not size but technicality/difficulty.
EddieC
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1/23/2014 11:58am
It would cut into my lunch time.

On a serious note, remember we use to have Friday practices and the injury rates where the same or higher. There is not one thing that can be changed that will have a big impact on injury rate. It is a multifactorial problem.

1. Privateer vs. Factory equipment

2. How a rider approaches practice on the track - Majority only practice doing laps and a lot of laps at that. Factor in exposure time and fatigue and the is a recipe for disaster. Very few work on the technical aspects of racing, I can say based on experience 99.9999999% privateers and 90% of factory riders are guilty of this. They might practice some corners and whoops but there is no filming to review later to check form or critique. Riders wear HR monitors but its mostly for show as I have asked many riders if they collect the data for review later and the response is always NO. They only look to see what HR is at the end of the Moto. They don't even check how much HR drops after 1 min of rest.

3. Training - very little STRENGTH TRAINING I ask riders all the time what they are doing for strength training most respond with some variation of my trainer has me ride a road bike in the big gear or I am doing dumbbell squats on a vibrating machine or standing on a ball.
Riders will also perform similar HR intensities in the gym or on a road/mountain bike that they experience at the track as if they are not already doing enough cardio.

4. RECOVERY - Refer above.
Privateer who has to ride two three day in a row plus hit the gym then hop in a truck and drive X hours to next race.
Factory rider who rides every day plus testing, gym and cycling.

5. Injuries - CUTTING corners in the management of injuries. Riding with significant injuries because of contractual obligations or having to put food on the table.

I can go on but I think you get the picture.
1/23/2014 12:00pm
Any change always makes some good and some bad, to find the right compromise is always difficult.

It is not a bad idea but here, due to the relatively fast deterioration of the tracks, the organizers would need to make it more hard pack, so a harder soil in case of crashes.
The Rock
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1/23/2014 5:37pm
The A2 retro track was a nightmare to maintain for Dirtwurx and for the FIM/AMA to deal with race schedule wise.

It deteriorated so quickly that the l track required a change after qualifying but this was explained to the riders before the heat races on the line.
IWreckALot
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1/23/2014 5:45pm
The Rock wrote:
The A2 retro track was a nightmare to maintain for Dirtwurx and for the FIM/AMA to deal with race schedule wise. It deteriorated so quickly that...
The A2 retro track was a nightmare to maintain for Dirtwurx and for the FIM/AMA to deal with race schedule wise.

It deteriorated so quickly that the l track required a change after qualifying but this was explained to the riders before the heat races on the line.
As I understand it, the track deteriorated so fast due to the monster trucks. They pack the dirt because the monster trucks will tear straight to the stadium floor if they don't. The base layer of dirt then doesn't hold moisture and the dirt on the surface evaporates much faster.

I don't think the dirt conditions had anything to do with the track design. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
Crush
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1/23/2014 5:53pm
The Rock wrote:
The A2 retro track was a nightmare to maintain for Dirtwurx and for the FIM/AMA to deal with race schedule wise. It deteriorated so quickly that...
The A2 retro track was a nightmare to maintain for Dirtwurx and for the FIM/AMA to deal with race schedule wise.

It deteriorated so quickly that the l track required a change after qualifying but this was explained to the riders before the heat races on the line.
I'd imagine that had a lot less to do with the track and more to do with the dirt. That dirt is old, beat up and full of blue metal and pea gravel from the rain races.

Dirt Wurx and Feld should do us all a favour and invest in new dirt for a lot of the tracks and about 50% more than what they currently have. Realise it's expensive but watching the bottom two races you can see the difference in the size and steepness of the obstacles.

2001


2014
The Rock
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1/23/2014 6:07pm Edited Date/Time 1/23/2014 6:09pm
I was told by someone in the chain of command the Retro track Design accelerated break down as the layout was reminiscent of two stroke days. The big issue however was the fact everyone was racing four strokes on this two stroke track design. Personally I loved the track from a fan's perspective.

EDIT New dirt be a beautiful thing for sure.
Crush
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1/23/2014 6:14pm
Ya I'm not sure on that one mate. I'd say composition and watering has a lot more to do with breakdown than the "design" – which really, watch those vids above, it was not the same as the "2-stroke track"

That 2001 was WAAAY more peaky and short sharp poppy lips. The hip jump and rhythm where Chad passed James was basically a freeway compared to 2001.

Same with the table to table section and 3-3. Not the same.

JT and Matthes were discussing on pulp how much blue metal, pea-gravel and lime is in that current anaheim dirt from all the mudders they've had at Supercross and Monster trucks.
Highsider
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1/23/2014 6:54pm
IWreckALot wrote:
As I understand it, the track deteriorated so fast due to the monster trucks. They pack the dirt because the monster trucks will tear straight to...
As I understand it, the track deteriorated so fast due to the monster trucks. They pack the dirt because the monster trucks will tear straight to the stadium floor if they don't. The base layer of dirt then doesn't hold moisture and the dirt on the surface evaporates much faster.

I don't think the dirt conditions had anything to do with the track design. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
My NB connection says the Monster trucks will be back this weekend.
yak651
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1/23/2014 7:05pm
The Rock wrote:
I was told by someone in the chain of command the Retro track Design accelerated break down as the layout was reminiscent of two stroke days...
I was told by someone in the chain of command the Retro track Design accelerated break down as the layout was reminiscent of two stroke days. The big issue however was the fact everyone was racing four strokes on this two stroke track design. Personally I loved the track from a fan's perspective.

EDIT New dirt be a beautiful thing for sure.
Two stroke track design accelerated break down??? I've heard a lot of things, but that is truly some tin foil thinking there...(IMOP)
IWreckALot
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1/23/2014 7:12pm
The Rock wrote:
I was told by someone in the chain of command the Retro track Design accelerated break down as the layout was reminiscent of two stroke days...
I was told by someone in the chain of command the Retro track Design accelerated break down as the layout was reminiscent of two stroke days. The big issue however was the fact everyone was racing four strokes on this two stroke track design. Personally I loved the track from a fan's perspective.

EDIT New dirt be a beautiful thing for sure.
yak651 wrote:
Two stroke track design accelerated break down??? I've heard a lot of things, but that is truly some tin foil thinking there...(IMOP)
I'll cut him some slack. I think hillbillys moonshine is being passed around a lot this week. But yeah I agree that the track design is a minor contributor to the dirt breaking down.
just James
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1/23/2014 7:38pm
I wonder what effect a much less agressive spec rear tire would have on track break down? Might actually provide for better racing.
No, I am not suggesting that they actually do it. But I do think it might allow for some different track features.
Thoughts?
The Rock
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1/27/2014 6:45pm
yak651 wrote:
Two stroke track design accelerated break down??? I've heard a lot of things, but that is truly some tin foil thinking there...(IMOP)
Yeah you're right. What do I know talking to someone for track feedback who attends all of the SX races and is an integral part of the program.
1/27/2014 7:05pm
just James wrote:
I wonder what effect a much less agressive spec rear tire would have on track break down? Might actually provide for better racing. No, I am...
I wonder what effect a much less agressive spec rear tire would have on track break down? Might actually provide for better racing.
No, I am not suggesting that they actually do it. But I do think it might allow for some different track features.
Thoughts?
Maybe we could detune the engines as well so they don't chew it up as much.
1/27/2014 7:45pm
I think that they should randomly select what practice they will be in......No reason why some of the pro's have to earn their way to practice first.....they've given their lives to motocross and they're practicing at the top of the industry.....on a professional supercross track.

Draw spoons for what practice you get. A, B or C.
mmitoptech
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1/27/2014 7:55pm
I think that they should randomly select what practice they will be in......No reason why some of the pro's have to earn their way to practice...
I think that they should randomly select what practice they will be in......No reason why some of the pro's have to earn their way to practice first.....they've given their lives to motocross and they're practicing at the top of the industry.....on a professional supercross track.

Draw spoons for what practice you get. A, B or C.
1/27/2014 8:04pm
"Is it me," or does anyone else think that first practice on a perfectly groomed track can be advantageous for a rider, rather than practicing in C practice when ruts/bumps/square edges through whoops form...... ? That's the only reason I think the practice participants should be randomized.
mmitoptech
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1/27/2014 8:13pm
250's are done that way, the slowest guys are on the track first. That's the way it should be. If you can't handle the track as a 450 rider you shouldn't be out there.

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