What does it take to make a Honda run like a Kawasaki or KTM?

JB 19
Profile picture for user JB 19
Posts
4205
Joined
3/8/2009
Location
Marion, OH US
JB 19
Edited Date/Time 5/20/2015 4:46am
What do you have to do to make a 15' Honda 450 run like a Kaw or even better a KTM? I've heard a cam? What does it take to give it the broad power where you can come out of corners in 3rd gear and rev it out down a straight?

I'm not talking just a pipe I mean transformable power to where you would never know it started as a Honda. I'm not looking for 65 HP, just to put it on par with a KXF or KTM.
|
gpracer36
Profile picture for user gpracer36
Posts
419
Joined
12/8/2011
Location
El Cajon, CA US
gpracer36 5/12/2015 1:52pm
5/12/2015 1:52pm
i have a 15 honda, had it ported, fmf single, hot cams 2, 13:5 vertex piston and tokyo mods remap. Just broke it in last weekend at pala. On the way home I was thinking I did too much, very strong.
FB
Profile picture for user FB
Posts
321
Joined
3/8/2015
Location
FR
FB 5/12/2015 1:58pm
5/12/2015 1:58pm
1
racerx221
Profile picture for user racerx221
Posts
391
Joined
4/30/2015
Location
CT US
racerx221 5/12/2015 2:03pm
5/12/2015 2:03pm
FB wrote:
[img]https://melissaeastondesign.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Orange_Rubberband_061.jpg[/img]
you sure?

The Shop

See All »
VET176
Profile picture for user VET176
Posts
1359
Joined
5/13/2011
Location
Brisbane AU
VET176 5/12/2015 2:09pm
5/12/2015 2:09pm
FB wrote:
[img]https://melissaeastondesign.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Orange_Rubberband_061.jpg[/img]
Only works with 2 strokes mate. Tongue
slipdog
Profile picture for user slipdog
Posts
10044
Joined
7/25/2009
Location
Nor Cal, CA US
slipdog 5/12/2015 2:11pm
5/12/2015 2:11pm
gpracer36 wrote:
i have a 15 honda, had it ported, fmf single, hot cams 2, 13:5 vertex piston and tokyo mods remap. Just broke it in last weekend...
i have a 15 honda, had it ported, fmf single, hot cams 2, 13:5 vertex piston and tokyo mods remap. Just broke it in last weekend at pala. On the way home I was thinking I did too much, very strong.
I have an '08, first year of the notoriously slow CRF's, I ported it with 13.5:1 piston and long rod crank. It makes the '15 yz, kx and KTM fe I've tested feel slow. Still stock cams and exhaust.
1
kawboy388
Profile picture for user kawboy388
Posts
986
Joined
4/2/2008
Location
Covington, TX US
kawboy388 5/12/2015 2:14pm
5/12/2015 2:14pm
Ron Hamp can get you there,he can get you to 65 hp too,just in case you change your mind.
BroFoSho
Profile picture for user BroFoSho
Posts
742
Joined
9/26/2013
Location
Tucson, AZ US
BroFoSho 5/12/2015 2:21pm
5/12/2015 2:21pm
Was told some head work and a cam do wonders. not much to be gained out of a new exhaust (at least not bang for your buck).

However, the new Hondas are so darn light a flickable. It feels like a mountain bike. You'll give some up on the straights but make it back up in the corners and and the end of the race from not being as tired.
TailSoHard
Profile picture for user TailSoHard
Posts
1657
Joined
10/18/2014
Location
Beer City, MI US
TailSoHard 5/12/2015 2:26pm
5/12/2015 2:26pm
First strip it down to the frame, and then swap it for a steel frame. Then find a KTM motor to put in it, slap on the rest of your parts, and then find some orange plastics. Whatever parts don't transfer to the new frame just replace with OEM KTM parts. Then combine all the leftover parts back into a bike, sell it, and you'll be good to go!

1
Spartacus
Profile picture for user Spartacus
Posts
2270
Joined
5/20/2011
Location
PW US
Spartacus 5/12/2015 2:32pm
5/12/2015 2:32pm
Buy a new power band for it, you won't be sorry.
1
Idaho747
Profile picture for user Idaho747
Posts
558
Joined
8/4/2014
Location
Idaho Falls, ID US
Idaho747 5/12/2015 3:23pm
5/12/2015 3:23pm
port
Polish
Piston
Cam

Usually those do the trick with any bike.
Tracktor
Profile picture for user Tracktor
Posts
2344
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
The RTF/Amboy, WA US
Tracktor 5/12/2015 3:24pm
5/12/2015 3:24pm
Twist the right grip....................
JB 19
Profile picture for user JB 19
Posts
4205
Joined
3/8/2009
Location
Marion, OH US
JB 19 5/12/2015 3:34pm
5/12/2015 3:34pm
Just talked to the owner of a well respected KTM dealer that said he is being told he will have the 16' KTM's at the end of June and will let them go for under 9000$ OTD.

I guess that settles that.
motokiwi
Profile picture for user motokiwi
Posts
2859
Joined
4/2/2008
Location
2t4L, AL US
Fantasy
319th
motokiwi 5/12/2015 3:34pm
5/12/2015 3:34pm
Remove the front sprocket.

Replace entire bike.

Re install front sprocket.
1

Pit Row

See All »
mx510
Profile picture for user mx510
Posts
1974
Joined
2/26/2011
Location
Gig Harbor, WA US
Fantasy
1707th
mx510 5/12/2015 3:54pm
5/12/2015 3:54pm
gpracer36 wrote:
i have a 15 honda, had it ported, fmf single, hot cams 2, 13:5 vertex piston and tokyo mods remap. Just broke it in last weekend...
i have a 15 honda, had it ported, fmf single, hot cams 2, 13:5 vertex piston and tokyo mods remap. Just broke it in last weekend at pala. On the way home I was thinking I did too much, very strong.
slipdog wrote:
I have an '08, first year of the notoriously slow CRF's, I ported it with 13.5:1 piston and long rod crank. It makes the '15 yz...
I have an '08, first year of the notoriously slow CRF's, I ported it with 13.5:1 piston and long rod crank. It makes the '15 yz, kx and KTM fe I've tested feel slow. Still stock cams and exhaust.
Did you mean '09 CRF?
markit
Profile picture for user markit
Posts
2638
Joined
1/10/2013
Location
Bogalusa, LA US
markit 5/12/2015 5:56pm
5/12/2015 5:56pm Edited Date/Time 5/12/2015 6:00pm
It requirs the henge removal kit #15.5ktm450fe. It removes the junk aluminum hinge with good old steel
1
jeffro503
Profile picture for user jeffro503
Posts
27442
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR US
jeffro503 5/12/2015 6:22pm
5/12/2015 6:22pm
gpracer36 wrote:
i have a 15 honda, had it ported, fmf single, hot cams 2, 13:5 vertex piston and tokyo mods remap. Just broke it in last weekend...
i have a 15 honda, had it ported, fmf single, hot cams 2, 13:5 vertex piston and tokyo mods remap. Just broke it in last weekend at pala. On the way home I was thinking I did too much, very strong.
slipdog wrote:
I have an '08, first year of the notoriously slow CRF's, I ported it with 13.5:1 piston and long rod crank. It makes the '15 yz...
I have an '08, first year of the notoriously slow CRF's, I ported it with 13.5:1 piston and long rod crank. It makes the '15 yz, kx and KTM fe I've tested feel slow. Still stock cams and exhaust.
mx510 wrote:
Did you mean '09 CRF?
Im hoping that's what Slip meant. The 07' had a slightly stronger motor , but was a little more erratic. The 08' motor was about as perfect as could be I thought. The 09' , 10 and kind of the 11' were dogs. 12' was awesome though , reminded me of my 08'. Also....in 09' , that's when Honda fucked up everything! Not just the motor!
1
Sargent Rock
Profile picture for user Sargent Rock
Posts
302
Joined
4/6/2012
Location
Liberty Lake, WA US
Sargent Rock 5/12/2015 6:25pm
5/12/2015 6:25pm
JB 19 wrote:
What do you have to do to make a 15' Honda 450 run like a Kaw or even better a KTM? I've heard a cam? What...
What do you have to do to make a 15' Honda 450 run like a Kaw or even better a KTM? I've heard a cam? What does it take to give it the broad power where you can come out of corners in 3rd gear and rev it out down a straight?

I'm not talking just a pipe I mean transformable power to where you would never know it started as a Honda. I'm not looking for 65 HP, just to put it on par with a KXF or KTM.
I run a 2015 KX 450. They had a dealer test ride at my local track a few weeks ago, got to ride the KTM 450 sx, RMZ 450, CRF 450F all 2015's. My personal opinion is the Honda had the best power band out of the box. The KTM wanted to rip your arms off. The Suzuki rides and runs like a dated design.

Selling the KX 450 and going Honda.

Caviat, if you run cross country or off-road, then yes the thrill of the KTM or Kawasaki is much funner than the Honda.
I ride closed course hybrid motocross tracks with jumps,tight corners and obstacles. No need for massive KTM type power.

Fwiw.
BobPA
Profile picture for user BobPA
Posts
8028
Joined
10/31/2013
Location
PA US
BobPA 5/12/2015 6:26pm
5/12/2015 6:26pm
motokiwi wrote:
Remove the front sprocket.

Replace entire bike.

Re install front sprocket.
Best thing I've read in a while on here.
1
slipdog
Profile picture for user slipdog
Posts
10044
Joined
7/25/2009
Location
Nor Cal, CA US
slipdog 5/12/2015 6:37pm
5/12/2015 6:37pm
slipdog wrote:
I have an '08, first year of the notoriously slow CRF's, I ported it with 13.5:1 piston and long rod crank. It makes the '15 yz...
I have an '08, first year of the notoriously slow CRF's, I ported it with 13.5:1 piston and long rod crank. It makes the '15 yz, kx and KTM fe I've tested feel slow. Still stock cams and exhaust.
mx510 wrote:
Did you mean '09 CRF?
jeffro503 wrote:
Im hoping that's what Slip meant. The 07' had a slightly stronger motor , but was a little more erratic. The 08' motor was about as...
Im hoping that's what Slip meant. The 07' had a slightly stronger motor , but was a little more erratic. The 08' motor was about as perfect as could be I thought. The 09' , 10 and kind of the 11' were dogs. 12' was awesome though , reminded me of my 08'. Also....in 09' , that's when Honda fucked up everything! Not just the motor!
Nope, the '08 felt like a fast 250f just like my '09 did, but a slow ass POS for a 450. That's when they changed the ignition and went to a smaller ex valve. Revs out like a kx 65...
1
ML512
Profile picture for user ML512
Posts
15463
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
54th
ML512 5/12/2015 6:45pm
5/12/2015 6:45pm
slipdog wrote:
Nope, the '08 felt like a fast 250f just like my '09 did, but a slow ass POS for a 450. That's when they changed the...
Nope, the '08 felt like a fast 250f just like my '09 did, but a slow ass POS for a 450. That's when they changed the ignition and went to a smaller ex valve. Revs out like a kx 65...
I was just talking to someone about how the 08 Honda 450 isn't quite as good as most dream of. I rode a very nicely re-built one a few months ago. Yes, the chassis was nice, but it had an odd lug to hit in the mid-range and then signs off... it will not rev! I got off and thought, hmm... maybe the new one isn't all that bad...

On another note, I'm actually having our 15 mapped by Jamie Ellis (Rockstar Racing's ex-engine guy) after Yoshimura just went through the engine. I'm excited to see what it puts out and how it is to ride tomorrow. Cool
ML512
Profile picture for user ML512
Posts
15463
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
54th
ML512 5/12/2015 6:47pm
5/12/2015 6:47pm
JB 19 wrote:
What do you have to do to make a 15' Honda 450 run like a Kaw or even better a KTM? I've heard a cam? What...
What do you have to do to make a 15' Honda 450 run like a Kaw or even better a KTM? I've heard a cam? What does it take to give it the broad power where you can come out of corners in 3rd gear and rev it out down a straight?

I'm not talking just a pipe I mean transformable power to where you would never know it started as a Honda. I'm not looking for 65 HP, just to put it on par with a KXF or KTM.
Imo, best bang for your buck is mapping and a cam. We used a Yoshimura cam in our last build that worked quite well and doesn't need to be re-shimed from stock.
flomiester
Profile picture for user flomiester
Posts
188
Joined
2/10/2012
Location
Elwell, MI US
flomiester 5/12/2015 7:01pm
5/12/2015 7:01pm
kawboy388 wrote:
Ron Hamp can get you there,he can get you to 65 hp too,just in case you change your mind.
Thanks for the post Chad cook made mains this season in sx with just my cam and a piston a pipe and good fuel I also have the cnc porting for the 2015 head .Honda has kept there cams on the mild side. Compared to the other oems they have every thing there to make it work they just need a little help.
Xeno
Profile picture for user Xeno
Posts
3635
Joined
12/30/2010
Location
San Clemente, CA US
Xeno 5/12/2015 7:38pm
5/12/2015 7:38pm
The stock map signs off early. Customers mail us the ECU and we re-map if for them.

Post a reply to: What does it take to make a Honda run like a Kawasaki or KTM?