Washougal Apology

TeamGreen
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7/24/2013 10:18am
TeamGreen wrote:
Bingo Nice post. Nay-Sayers can suck it. I'm going to say this only once: I'm of the opinion that Jeff is falling on the sword for...
Bingo

Nice post.

Nay-Sayers can suck it.

I'm going to say this only once: I'm of the opinion that Jeff is falling on the sword for the Team. I'm giving him my respect for that.

I've always liked this guy. I've seen him do some great things and help people in VERY Hard-Times & situations.
Rooster wrote:
Well I guess I can suck it then. He might be falling on the sword, but there isn't a hell of alot of blade exposed after...
Well I guess I can suck it then.

He might be falling on the sword, but there isn't a hell of alot of blade exposed after he tossed his brother, father and their boss onto it first. Not to mention his ex-girlfriend and all the other team members who's livelihoods have been jeopardized.

Like I said, this is a start. It's not exactly the first time he's come here to say he's going to reboot his life and smarten the fuck up.
My implications in the quoted post are the kind I expected someone like you to "get". Emphasis on "Team" and "Team Mgr". I'm, also, a little surprised by your response since you are usually the guy reminding the Self-Righteous to "lighten-up".

No worries. Karma will settle this if it hasn't already.
coolhand
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7/24/2013 10:21am
Predator, x2...total BS. The whole group are a bunch of candy asses. The guy, not kid, is 23. Should have had his ass kicked when he ran his mouth, but he ducts behind crazy Tony and then comes out with this BS.
MXR
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7/24/2013 10:21am
TeamGreen wrote:
Bingo Nice post. Nay-Sayers can suck it. I'm going to say this only once: I'm of the opinion that Jeff is falling on the sword for...
Bingo

Nice post.

Nay-Sayers can suck it.

I'm going to say this only once: I'm of the opinion that Jeff is falling on the sword for the Team. I'm giving him my respect for that.

I've always liked this guy. I've seen him do some great things and help people in VERY Hard-Times & situations.
Rooster wrote:
Well I guess I can suck it then. He might be falling on the sword, but there isn't a hell of alot of blade exposed after...
Well I guess I can suck it then.

He might be falling on the sword, but there isn't a hell of alot of blade exposed after he tossed his brother, father and their boss onto it first. Not to mention his ex-girlfriend and all the other team members who's livelihoods have been jeopardized.

Like I said, this is a start. It's not exactly the first time he's come here to say he's going to reboot his life and smarten the fuck up.
huck wrote:
exactly... The slurping in this thread is EPIC! 2 days ago most of these guys wanted to hang him...now they're holding him high, because of a...
exactly... The slurping in this thread is EPIC!

2 days ago most of these guys wanted to hang him...now they're holding him high, because of a well written letter? Give me a break....
+ 2
Insider347
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7/24/2013 10:22am
Credit for posting but I hope he called and apologized to DC and Mike G. first. He really had no choice but to give in sooner or later. I have fucked up before and it's a wake up call. Now is the time to lay low and prove what you said in the letter. Daddy will not help this situation so it's up to you Jeff. I can forgive (which you could care less from me) but you need to earn it in my opinion. Good luck.

The Shop

ns503
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7/24/2013 10:26am
It takes a certain amount of responsibility to apologize for something, no matter the timing.

It also takes a certain amount of fortitude to accept an apology without fear of being labelled 'ass kisser'.

Seems two of the most potentially injured parties are ready to accept & move forward.

As Steve said - let's go racing. Really looking forward to seeing Mike out there on the weekend again.
GuyB
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7/24/2013 10:35am
Predator wrote:
I'm not gonna come in here and kiss Jeff's ass like some of you people. This apology was forced on him and it wasn't sincere. Watching...
I'm not gonna come in here and kiss Jeff's ass like some of you people. This apology was forced on him and it wasn't sincere. Watching that video with him and Matthes just lets me know what kind of punk ass kid this dude is. It's easy to be a tough guy when other people are standing around and will jump in. Let him say that shit to Matthes by himself and watch him get his ass drug all up and down the road. BUT seeing how loony his dad is this kind of behavior doesn't surprise me...

I'm with pilotdude on this one...
Just an FYI...

I talked to Jeff last night before this went up. As far as I can tell, this is something he wanted to do...not that he was forced to do. Obviously things went very sideways on Saturday. In talking with him, it was pretty obvious to me that he feels really bad about it and is trying to make things right. That was a solid first step.
BAMX
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7/24/2013 10:42am
Predator wrote:
I'm not gonna come in here and kiss Jeff's ass like some of you people. This apology was forced on him and it wasn't sincere. Watching...
I'm not gonna come in here and kiss Jeff's ass like some of you people. This apology was forced on him and it wasn't sincere. Watching that video with him and Matthes just lets me know what kind of punk ass kid this dude is. It's easy to be a tough guy when other people are standing around and will jump in. Let him say that shit to Matthes by himself and watch him get his ass drug all up and down the road. BUT seeing how loony his dad is this kind of behavior doesn't surprise me...

I'm with pilotdude on this one...
You sound like my old roommate who can't accept an apology and never lets anything go. The older she get's the less friends she has and the more bitter she is getting. IMO, life is too short for that BS. The guy did the right thin albeit a bit late. He apologized like he needed to and it seems like 99% have accepted that and are moving on.
MXR
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7/24/2013 10:43am
I hope Mike makes it back to the top of his game . I hope Tony and Jeff go away.
kongols
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7/24/2013 10:45am
MXR wrote:
I hope Mike makes it back to the top of his game . I hope Tony and Jeff go away.
Did you finally find out if Motoconcepts has laser pens in stock?
7/24/2013 10:45am
I still think Tony should act like a man and apologize to the ones he berated and verbally abused, as well as retract the ignorant lawsuit talk.

But I doubt he will. He's TA after all. Good riddance.
whoopsrider
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Keller, TX US
7/24/2013 10:48am Edited Date/Time 7/24/2013 10:51am
Pulp MX show last night was the best show by far ever!

And the DV Tony beat down was epic, Tony proved to me 100% the dude needs help, like real help. The rant he went off on was comical at best.

Those guys can skirt around the question like a cat chasing a laser beam.

The best part is I'll bet RV is just kicked back watching the whole mess just thinking about the days when they all raced as kids and the Alessi clan killed it.

Now they are just a side show and RV is the ring master!
MXR
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7/24/2013 10:50am
MXR wrote:
I hope Mike makes it back to the top of his game . I hope Tony and Jeff go away.
kongols wrote:
Did you finally find out if Motoconcepts has laser pens in stock?
Sold out , none in stock
7/24/2013 10:56am
I get the apology--it had to be done. His initial denial and throwing everyone around him under the bus with lies is pretty normal too.
Big Props to DC for handling the whole thing professionally.
Glad to hear the MA 800 will be back at it this weekend.

Now, Jeff needs help...counseling, a shrink, whatever... He is in denial about the important part of the incident.

For all you saying, "we've all done stupid shit when we were young, cut the guy some slack," really? Yeah, I did plenty of stupid shit in my neighborhood, or with my family and friends, but never did I try to mess with a historic, national event or at least screw with a famous athlete who was competing on a national stage. This is a "stupid thing" carried to a whole different level...this is bigger than the usual 'dumb kid mistake."

Back to the denial. Jeff...you really "meant no harm to the rider or his results?' Really now? What EXACTLY did you intend to do by shining a laser in the eyes of a motocrosser on the line with the 30 second board turned sideways? So, what, precisely, were your intentions? What, exactly, were you trying to do to RV? You said you weren't trying to harm him, so what were you trying to do then? I'm curious...did you think it was going to help him?

That is my point...he still hasn't come clean...he needs to admit that he tried to hurt a famous athlete in the prime of his career on a national stage...a famous athlete that was in competition with his brother no less. That's a serious thing...for all you who did "stupid shit when you were young." how many did something at this level? Jeff, you need help to find out why you were motivated to do such a sick thing...because, let's call it what it was, that was mentally sick what you did, and just saying sorry does not make it okay...you need help. This was not your "normal" childish prank. This is not blowing up neighborhood mailboxes with M-80's. I am not bashing JA, but he need to be real honest right now. Being sorry is good, but why did you do what you are sorry for? What you did was very serious and can't just be forgotten about...you have now displayed a capacity for doing such things and that should be worrisome for you and those in your life. You need to get to the root of the problem, of it will come back again. Next time later on in life, with your present decision making process, you might end up doing something that will get you in prison, or worse.... Judges don't work so well with "I'm sorry about doing it."

I am pretty sure that surviving Boston bomber guy is sorry now and regrets what he and his brother did....
ab5772
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7/24/2013 10:58am
TeamGreen wrote:
My implications in the quoted post are the kind I expected someone like you to "get". Emphasis on "Team" and "Team Mgr". I'm, also, a little...
My implications in the quoted post are the kind I expected someone like you to "get". Emphasis on "Team" and "Team Mgr". I'm, also, a little surprised by your response since you are usually the guy reminding the Self-Righteous to "lighten-up".

No worries. Karma will settle this if it hasn't already.
So, do we still get our "history lesson?" And did this ever "happen before?" Or is it all good now that there's been an apology? Smile
flarider
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7/24/2013 11:04am
I actually read all of this thread, and I understand both side of the responses people have put up.

I understand that some of you feel it's "fake" or "insincere" since it may not have been written by his own hand.
I understand that people are willing to accept an apology, as an apology, and be willing to move on
I even understand those that appreciate the apology, accept it, but still harbor ill-will towards Jeff and others involved.

I think what's important here is that an effort was made. A first step was taken. An attempt to right a wrong has been made. Did Jeff personally pen that apology? I doubt it, but in a situation of this magnitude, where tens of thousands of dollars have been wasted and lost, where the jobs of innocent bystanders, like mechanics and support personnel, are at stake and then the shame and financial losses brought upon his family, I think it is important to have your apology well crafted and proofread by others, to ensure everyone and everything is covered in a clear and sincere manner.

I don't believe anyone in this thread who's accepted Jeff's apology are saying or implying that this situation is over with and/or will never be remembered, they're only saying he did the right thing by stepping forward and saying the truth, whether it's within 24, 48 or 72 hours, he manned up to it.

Though it's not my apology to accept, he doesn't owe me one, no more than he owes any one of you (except maybe DC and Matthes) an apology, and to my knowledge, neither RV2 or Mookie participate here, but I accept his apology, because that's what we're supposed to do, forgive and move on. Not saying forget, but to move past it. Move on. He said he was sorry, let's look to next week and let's see his Brother come out and kick ass and stand at the fence or our tv's and cheer him on, because he deserves none of this, but he does deserve a helping hand and a helping hand of support.

So, I don't know about any of you, but I am going to cheer for Jeff's brother, Mike. I am going to cheer him on and hope he can put this behind him, like you should, and go back to what he's been doing for the last few years, keeping his head down and working hard.

So, let bygones be bygones and remember, we've all fucked up and we've all lied about those fuck ups, some we may have never admitted to, but Jeff admitted to THIS fuck up, so it deserves acceptance, and again, that doesn't mean you have to forget it ever happened, but allow the man to stand up, apologize and move let's all move on.
RUTCITY
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7/24/2013 11:06am
STILL MOST LIKELY

A

LAWSUIT COMING
Mxdnusa
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7/24/2013 11:08am
Your a bigger man than me. Especially posting apology here knowing what was coming.
I probably would of denied it til I died and when they spoke of video/photographic evidence I would've played the every person has a double card.
sc961
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7/24/2013 11:13am Edited Date/Time 7/24/2013 11:25am
This is a good start for all concerned.
FreshTopEnd
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7/24/2013 11:15am
"Jeff's apology was a script:" this is the kind of thing anyone can write and really means nothing. People have been saying he needs to apologize...
"Jeff's apology was a script:" this is the kind of thing anyone can write and really means nothing. People have been saying he needs to apologize, but then when he does it's not good enough. If what people are demanding is a "sincere" apology, I don't see what more the kid can do to offer one unless you want it in his own semi-literate composition, which really wouldn't change a thing at all.

In reality, all that matters is how he handles himself in the days to come. I'm not sure there are many people on this board who have their neck out on whether Jeff learns from this and makes better choices. The extent of most folks' stake in this is whether they get to throw more stones. The people who have to depend on Jeff can hold him accountable for his sincerity.
dkg wrote:
Agreed. It makes no difference to me who wrote the apology. If Jeff takes ownership of the apology, that is good enough for me. Questioning his...
Agreed. It makes no difference to me who wrote the apology. If Jeff takes ownership of the apology, that is good enough for me. Questioning his sincerity is silly and puts Jeff in an impossible position. He apologized and admitted his wrong doing. A significant step for Jeff. The future will now be what Jeff makes of it.
"FreshTopEnd wrote: "Jeff's apology was a script:" this is the kind of thing anyone can write and really means nothing."

Just wanted to be clear, looking back on it, that my reference to what "anyone can write and really means nothing" refers to the quoted comment by another poster, not the apology.
MXR
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7/24/2013 11:18am
I get the apology--it had to be done. His initial denial and throwing everyone around him under the bus with lies is pretty normal too. Big...
I get the apology--it had to be done. His initial denial and throwing everyone around him under the bus with lies is pretty normal too.
Big Props to DC for handling the whole thing professionally.
Glad to hear the MA 800 will be back at it this weekend.

Now, Jeff needs help...counseling, a shrink, whatever... He is in denial about the important part of the incident.

For all you saying, "we've all done stupid shit when we were young, cut the guy some slack," really? Yeah, I did plenty of stupid shit in my neighborhood, or with my family and friends, but never did I try to mess with a historic, national event or at least screw with a famous athlete who was competing on a national stage. This is a "stupid thing" carried to a whole different level...this is bigger than the usual 'dumb kid mistake."

Back to the denial. Jeff...you really "meant no harm to the rider or his results?' Really now? What EXACTLY did you intend to do by shining a laser in the eyes of a motocrosser on the line with the 30 second board turned sideways? So, what, precisely, were your intentions? What, exactly, were you trying to do to RV? You said you weren't trying to harm him, so what were you trying to do then? I'm curious...did you think it was going to help him?

That is my point...he still hasn't come clean...he needs to admit that he tried to hurt a famous athlete in the prime of his career on a national stage...a famous athlete that was in competition with his brother no less. That's a serious thing...for all you who did "stupid shit when you were young." how many did something at this level? Jeff, you need help to find out why you were motivated to do such a sick thing...because, let's call it what it was, that was mentally sick what you did, and just saying sorry does not make it okay...you need help. This was not your "normal" childish prank. This is not blowing up neighborhood mailboxes with M-80's. I am not bashing JA, but he need to be real honest right now. Being sorry is good, but why did you do what you are sorry for? What you did was very serious and can't just be forgotten about...you have now displayed a capacity for doing such things and that should be worrisome for you and those in your life. You need to get to the root of the problem, of it will come back again. Next time later on in life, with your present decision making process, you might end up doing something that will get you in prison, or worse.... Judges don't work so well with "I'm sorry about doing it."

I am pretty sure that surviving Boston bomber guy is sorry now and regrets what he and his brother did....
Several years ago at a Washougal National , someone was seen shooting a paintball gun at riders on the track from the woods . Fingers were being pointed at Jeff Alessi . I'm afraid to know what this lunatic will do as an encore .

This was brought up again on the Pulp MX Show on Monday night as well . I forgot all about it until it was brought up on Monday .

What is this type of behavior going to lead up to ?
GoonSquad250x
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7/24/2013 11:21am
Predator wrote:
I'm not gonna come in here and kiss Jeff's ass like some of you people. This apology was forced on him and it wasn't sincere. Watching...
I'm not gonna come in here and kiss Jeff's ass like some of you people. This apology was forced on him and it wasn't sincere. Watching that video with him and Matthes just lets me know what kind of punk ass kid this dude is. It's easy to be a tough guy when other people are standing around and will jump in. Let him say that shit to Matthes by himself and watch him get his ass drug all up and down the road. BUT seeing how loony his dad is this kind of behavior doesn't surprise me...

I'm with pilotdude on this one...
BAMX wrote:
You sound like my old roommate who can't accept an apology and never lets anything go. The older she get's the less friends she has and...
You sound like my old roommate who can't accept an apology and never lets anything go. The older she get's the less friends she has and the more bitter she is getting. IMO, life is too short for that BS. The guy did the right thin albeit a bit late. He apologized like he needed to and it seems like 99% have accepted that and are moving on.
Agreed! Predotor you act like your Gf lied to you and this effected you personally. Deal with it and move on, the guy did a boo boo and maned up and apologized.
7/24/2013 11:22am
But make no mistake about my comment above, What you did was stupid and may have very well cost your brother dearly, I think he and TA may have been in on it. I hope MA wasn't, because he truly seems to have changed his image and has made every effort to just focus on letting his riding do the talking. But with the evidence that was presented and information that was available to TA almost immediately after the incident, I'm sorry, I'm the father of two children, and listening to my child's story and then being presented with the EVIDENCE of the obvious truth. My next action would have been the swift hand of justice across their rear end for lying and trying to make a mockery of me and the others involved, they are younger and I understand that TA isn't going to just start whippin Jeff's ass, But the lack of those ass "whoopins" earlier in life, and his reaction to this situation is the direct cause of this kind of CRAP now, and by TA's reaction, He is obviously a very disturbed invidual, and I would even go as far as saying a CRAZY BASTARD, and should be in an institution of some kind. So to sum it up, Jeff, don't beat yourself up about ruining your father's career, He handled that all by himself, and you really didn't have a hand in that at all !!!
mag23
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7/24/2013 11:32am
Good Man, Jeff Alessi! Sucks to learn the hard way that the cover up is always worse than the crime, but hey, props for owning it.
Overdrive
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7/24/2013 11:34am
flarider wrote:
I actually read all of this thread, and I understand both side of the responses people have put up. I understand that some of you feel...
I actually read all of this thread, and I understand both side of the responses people have put up.

I understand that some of you feel it's "fake" or "insincere" since it may not have been written by his own hand.
I understand that people are willing to accept an apology, as an apology, and be willing to move on
I even understand those that appreciate the apology, accept it, but still harbor ill-will towards Jeff and others involved.

I think what's important here is that an effort was made. A first step was taken. An attempt to right a wrong has been made. Did Jeff personally pen that apology? I doubt it, but in a situation of this magnitude, where tens of thousands of dollars have been wasted and lost, where the jobs of innocent bystanders, like mechanics and support personnel, are at stake and then the shame and financial losses brought upon his family, I think it is important to have your apology well crafted and proofread by others, to ensure everyone and everything is covered in a clear and sincere manner.

I don't believe anyone in this thread who's accepted Jeff's apology are saying or implying that this situation is over with and/or will never be remembered, they're only saying he did the right thing by stepping forward and saying the truth, whether it's within 24, 48 or 72 hours, he manned up to it.

Though it's not my apology to accept, he doesn't owe me one, no more than he owes any one of you (except maybe DC and Matthes) an apology, and to my knowledge, neither RV2 or Mookie participate here, but I accept his apology, because that's what we're supposed to do, forgive and move on. Not saying forget, but to move past it. Move on. He said he was sorry, let's look to next week and let's see his Brother come out and kick ass and stand at the fence or our tv's and cheer him on, because he deserves none of this, but he does deserve a helping hand and a helping hand of support.

So, I don't know about any of you, but I am going to cheer for Jeff's brother, Mike. I am going to cheer him on and hope he can put this behind him, like you should, and go back to what he's been doing for the last few years, keeping his head down and working hard.

So, let bygones be bygones and remember, we've all fucked up and we've all lied about those fuck ups, some we may have never admitted to, but Jeff admitted to THIS fuck up, so it deserves acceptance, and again, that doesn't mean you have to forget it ever happened, but allow the man to stand up, apologize and move let's all move on.
Nicely put and can't argue with that.
Rooster
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7/24/2013 11:37am
TeamGreen wrote:
Bingo Nice post. Nay-Sayers can suck it. I'm going to say this only once: I'm of the opinion that Jeff is falling on the sword for...
Bingo

Nice post.

Nay-Sayers can suck it.

I'm going to say this only once: I'm of the opinion that Jeff is falling on the sword for the Team. I'm giving him my respect for that.

I've always liked this guy. I've seen him do some great things and help people in VERY Hard-Times & situations.
Rooster wrote:
Well I guess I can suck it then. He might be falling on the sword, but there isn't a hell of alot of blade exposed after...
Well I guess I can suck it then.

He might be falling on the sword, but there isn't a hell of alot of blade exposed after he tossed his brother, father and their boss onto it first. Not to mention his ex-girlfriend and all the other team members who's livelihoods have been jeopardized.

Like I said, this is a start. It's not exactly the first time he's come here to say he's going to reboot his life and smarten the fuck up.
TeamGreen wrote:
My implications in the quoted post are the kind I expected someone like you to "get". Emphasis on "Team" and "Team Mgr". I'm, also, a little...
My implications in the quoted post are the kind I expected someone like you to "get". Emphasis on "Team" and "Team Mgr". I'm, also, a little surprised by your response since you are usually the guy reminding the Self-Righteous to "lighten-up".

No worries. Karma will settle this if it hasn't already.
As I stated, this is not the first time Jeff has come on here and apologized to the fans while saying how he's going to get his life in order and quit being a jackass.

I truly hope this is the last time we see him have to do it, but by the same token, he has shown a pattern of behaviour that leads to these posts every 6-12 months.

Fool me once and all that jazz.
Crash82
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7/24/2013 11:44am Edited Date/Time 7/24/2013 11:45am
Crash82 wrote:
Just for the record I didn't. [b]. No one got their eyes burned out, it did not affect the race in any way. It was stupid...
Just for the record I didn't.


. No one got their eyes burned out, it did not affect the race in any way. It was stupid no lie, right up there with the Tanya Harding caper, but Mike should not have been fined or had points taken away. There has been enough hate on Tony over this, he is paying enough without stupid attacks. I'm not mad at Jeff he has to live with this that is a tough burden to carry. Attack me all you want but the over reaction to this whole thing is moronic.


http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/RVs-Washougal-GoPro-Moto1…
Grieby54 wrote:
Of course you didn't. You didn't get off of your knees for one second...
LOL, I laughed. I love me some Alessi's, sport would be boring without them. Speaking of Alessi's i still owe you 20 bucks. I been low on cash so i haven't pushed the fact, Smile
Crash82
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7/24/2013 11:46am
flarider wrote:
I actually read all of this thread, and I understand both side of the responses people have put up. I understand that some of you feel...
I actually read all of this thread, and I understand both side of the responses people have put up.

I understand that some of you feel it's "fake" or "insincere" since it may not have been written by his own hand.
I understand that people are willing to accept an apology, as an apology, and be willing to move on
I even understand those that appreciate the apology, accept it, but still harbor ill-will towards Jeff and others involved.

I think what's important here is that an effort was made. A first step was taken. An attempt to right a wrong has been made. Did Jeff personally pen that apology? I doubt it, but in a situation of this magnitude, where tens of thousands of dollars have been wasted and lost, where the jobs of innocent bystanders, like mechanics and support personnel, are at stake and then the shame and financial losses brought upon his family, I think it is important to have your apology well crafted and proofread by others, to ensure everyone and everything is covered in a clear and sincere manner.

I don't believe anyone in this thread who's accepted Jeff's apology are saying or implying that this situation is over with and/or will never be remembered, they're only saying he did the right thing by stepping forward and saying the truth, whether it's within 24, 48 or 72 hours, he manned up to it.

Though it's not my apology to accept, he doesn't owe me one, no more than he owes any one of you (except maybe DC and Matthes) an apology, and to my knowledge, neither RV2 or Mookie participate here, but I accept his apology, because that's what we're supposed to do, forgive and move on. Not saying forget, but to move past it. Move on. He said he was sorry, let's look to next week and let's see his Brother come out and kick ass and stand at the fence or our tv's and cheer him on, because he deserves none of this, but he does deserve a helping hand and a helping hand of support.

So, I don't know about any of you, but I am going to cheer for Jeff's brother, Mike. I am going to cheer him on and hope he can put this behind him, like you should, and go back to what he's been doing for the last few years, keeping his head down and working hard.

So, let bygones be bygones and remember, we've all fucked up and we've all lied about those fuck ups, some we may have never admitted to, but Jeff admitted to THIS fuck up, so it deserves acceptance, and again, that doesn't mean you have to forget it ever happened, but allow the man to stand up, apologize and move let's all move on.
Overdrive wrote:
Nicely put and can't argue with that.
Holy crap I agree with Flarider...............
Grieby54
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7/24/2013 11:49am
Crash82 wrote:
LOL, I laughed. I love me some Alessi's, sport would be boring without them. Speaking of Alessi's i still owe you 20 bucks. I been low...
LOL, I laughed. I love me some Alessi's, sport would be boring without them. Speaking of Alessi's i still owe you 20 bucks. I been low on cash so i haven't pushed the fact, Smile
I never expected you to pay. Not that that's a dig on your character... I just don't put much weight into online betting. BobbyM owes me about $40 for two seasons worth of betting that he hasn't paid out on.

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