Vintage "Mugen" silencer being remade

stillwelding
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stillwelding
Edited Date/Time 2/12/2014 11:10am
I'm making some new silencers for some VitalMX members and have to re-create the drawings before starting the work. The original "Restorer" (not the Vital member) cleaned it up with a power wire brush. I know the front mount is still missing and the stinger is bent the wrong direction, but the rendering art work is great. I'll post the real thing when I'm done.







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redalert144
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redalert144 6/17/2011 9:16pm
6/17/2011 9:16pm
That looks awesome, did you buy the cannister or roll it?
500guy
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500guy 6/17/2011 9:21pm
6/17/2011 9:21pm
This is very cool, how do you create that art work and why do you have to create it ?

Can't you just get the parts and weld one up ?
redalert144
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redalert144 6/17/2011 9:22pm
6/17/2011 9:22pm
500guy wrote:
This is very cool, how do you create that art work and why do you have to create it ? Can't you just get the parts...
This is very cool, how do you create that art work and why do you have to create it ?

Can't you just get the parts and weld one up ?
For the fun of it, DUH!
stillwelding
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stillwelding 6/17/2011 9:30pm
6/17/2011 9:30pm Edited Date/Time 6/17/2011 9:33pm
500guy wrote:
This is very cool, how do you create that art work and why do you have to create it ? Can't you just get the parts...
This is very cool, how do you create that art work and why do you have to create it ?

Can't you just get the parts and weld one up ?
I have a guy who makes the part for me in 3-D so I can get the dimensions accurate. After that he can unfold (flatten out) the parts for me. I then have the sheet metal parts waterjet cut and in this case the end caps (front and rear) and the round mount turned. Files are generated of the end cap so that they can go directly on a CNC turning center and are accurate from the first part. Same for the water jet cut mount. I'll make tooling (a jig) off of the original part and hand bend and roll the sheet metal. This Mugen silencer was made from rolled sheet metal, not a piece of tubing.
It's funny though, the guy that does the rendering is so non-moto, that when I got the drawings back today, he said "Here's the rendering for that tube, or whatever you said it was".

The Shop

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redalert144
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redalert144 6/17/2011 9:47pm
6/17/2011 9:47pm
Thats awesome! Do you have any tips on what not to do when you start welding? It is the 1 thing I havent done and am going to teach myself this summer
Xeno
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Xeno 6/17/2011 10:00pm
6/17/2011 10:00pm
How do you re-pack the muffler? Or do you re-pack those? What's inside?
stillwelding
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stillwelding 6/17/2011 10:30pm
6/17/2011 10:30pm
Xeno wrote:
How do you re-pack the muffler? Or do you re-pack those? What's inside?
This was a one time use muffler, so to speak, all welded construction (as were all works mufflers of the time). This area had a "cone" of material that went from the large end, inlet side of the muffler, towards the stinger. It has been cut off, re-packed, and re-welded, without the benefit of the cone being replaced. I'm waiting for a different, original muffler, to get the dimensions off of. As for what's inside, it has an aluminum muffler core welded to the canister end caps (I haven't been given the OK to open up the canister yet. Still gathering information. We have had verification that this is an original Mugen part by a former factory Mugen mechanic.

jmc2
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jmc2 6/17/2011 10:31pm
6/17/2011 10:31pm
Here is an out of focus, grainy shot of one back in the day...
stillwelding
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stillwelding 6/17/2011 10:42pm
6/17/2011 10:42pm Edited Date/Time 6/17/2011 10:45pm
redalert144 wrote:
Thats awesome! Do you have any tips on what not to do when you start welding? It is the 1 thing I havent done and am...
Thats awesome! Do you have any tips on what not to do when you start welding? It is the 1 thing I havent done and am going to teach myself this summer
Get a good welding helmet and appropriate (thin) welding gloves to start. Use sharp tungsten and a good welding machine and table if available. I've trained a lot of guys over the years (starting at Answer Products in about 1977 or so), and I suggest you start out with a 1/4" thick piece of Stainless Steel. Start at about 65 amps DC negative and make a one inch square of beads in the middle of the plate. Keep moving out, staying at the edge of the previous square, going around and around the plate. You can keep a bucket of water to cool the plate when it gets too hot (when the beads start to get unstable, don't flow in a straight line, you'll see). I always train someone on this, Bead on Plate method, without adding wire. You want to learn torch control (tungsten to plate distance) and heat input (foot pedal control), and travel speed (torch movement) before adding wire. Otherwise there are too many variables to control. I spent quite a few nights in weld class at vocational school doing this before the instructor even let me have a piece of wire. Good luck. Sorry, this was more what to do, not, what not to do. The what not to do will come every day, if you keep welding.
redalert144
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redalert144 6/17/2011 10:52pm
6/17/2011 10:52pm
redalert144 wrote:
Thats awesome! Do you have any tips on what not to do when you start welding? It is the 1 thing I havent done and am...
Thats awesome! Do you have any tips on what not to do when you start welding? It is the 1 thing I havent done and am going to teach myself this summer
stillwelding wrote:
Get a good welding helmet and appropriate (thin) welding gloves to start. Use sharp tungsten and a good welding machine and table if available. I've trained...
Get a good welding helmet and appropriate (thin) welding gloves to start. Use sharp tungsten and a good welding machine and table if available. I've trained a lot of guys over the years (starting at Answer Products in about 1977 or so), and I suggest you start out with a 1/4" thick piece of Stainless Steel. Start at about 65 amps DC negative and make a one inch square of beads in the middle of the plate. Keep moving out, staying at the edge of the previous square, going around and around the plate. You can keep a bucket of water to cool the plate when it gets too hot (when the beads start to get unstable, don't flow in a straight line, you'll see). I always train someone on this, Bead on Plate method, without adding wire. You want to learn torch control (tungsten to plate distance) and heat input (foot pedal control), and travel speed (torch movement) before adding wire. Otherwise there are too many variables to control. I spent quite a few nights in weld class at vocational school doing this before the instructor even let me have a piece of wire. Good luck. Sorry, this was more what to do, not, what not to do. The what not to do will come every day, if you keep welding.
Thanks I'll keep all that in mind and try my best. As you can see I have a dirt track car that gets beat and will help out alot if I know how to weld haha. Thanks again
wildbill
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wildbill 6/17/2011 11:00pm
6/17/2011 11:00pm
cool stuff welderdude but, why don't you improve on this ancient design using modern empirical methodology and get the obvious hp lurking in technological advancement?
tunedlength
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tunedlength 6/17/2011 11:07pm
6/17/2011 11:07pm
Xeno wrote:
How do you re-pack the muffler? Or do you re-pack those? What's inside?
stillwelding wrote:
This was a one time use muffler, so to speak, all welded construction (as were all works mufflers of the time). This area had a "cone"...
This was a one time use muffler, so to speak, all welded construction (as were all works mufflers of the time). This area had a "cone" of material that went from the large end, inlet side of the muffler, towards the stinger. It has been cut off, re-packed, and re-welded, without the benefit of the cone being replaced. I'm waiting for a different, original muffler, to get the dimensions off of. As for what's inside, it has an aluminum muffler core welded to the canister end caps (I haven't been given the OK to open up the canister yet. Still gathering information. We have had verification that this is an original Mugen part by a former factory Mugen mechanic.

Aluminum core, you would think it would have at least distorted from the heat.
You could see gas temp of 600F+ at the silencer.

What does your guy use for the rendering? nice work.
uk125250
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uk125250 6/18/2011 1:47am
6/18/2011 1:47am
stillwelding wrote:
I have a guy who makes the part for me in 3-D so I can get the dimensions accurate. After that he can unfold (flatten out)...
I have a guy who makes the part for me in 3-D so I can get the dimensions accurate. After that he can unfold (flatten out) the parts for me. I then have the sheet metal parts waterjet cut and in this case the end caps (front and rear) and the round mount turned. Files are generated of the end cap so that they can go directly on a CNC turning center and are accurate from the first part. Same for the water jet cut mount. I'll make tooling (a jig) off of the original part and hand bend and roll the sheet metal. This Mugen silencer was made from rolled sheet metal, not a piece of tubing.
It's funny though, the guy that does the rendering is so non-moto, that when I got the drawings back today, he said "Here's the rendering for that tube, or whatever you said it was".
Ask him if he is using solidworks to render that if you dont mind.
robkinuk
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robkinuk 6/18/2011 3:26am
6/18/2011 3:26am
wildbill wrote:
cool stuff welderdude but, why don't you improve on this ancient design using modern empirical methodology and get the obvious hp lurking in technological advancement?
Can we have that again in English please!WinkTongue
newmann
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newmann 6/18/2011 5:09am
6/18/2011 5:09am
Who would even ask you to recreate such a thing? Looks expensive. And how are you going to match that power wire wheeled melted and smeared aluminum look?



Smile

Very nice work Bruce, as always.
Xeno
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Xeno 6/18/2011 6:53am
6/18/2011 6:53am
wildbill wrote:
cool stuff welderdude but, why don't you improve on this ancient design using modern empirical methodology and get the obvious hp lurking in technological advancement?
My take is that if you have an original Mugen, then keep it that way because they are rare and represent a distinct era.
stillwelding
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stillwelding 6/18/2011 8:56am
6/18/2011 8:56am
Xeno wrote:
How do you re-pack the muffler? Or do you re-pack those? What's inside?
stillwelding wrote:
This was a one time use muffler, so to speak, all welded construction (as were all works mufflers of the time). This area had a "cone"...
This was a one time use muffler, so to speak, all welded construction (as were all works mufflers of the time). This area had a "cone" of material that went from the large end, inlet side of the muffler, towards the stinger. It has been cut off, re-packed, and re-welded, without the benefit of the cone being replaced. I'm waiting for a different, original muffler, to get the dimensions off of. As for what's inside, it has an aluminum muffler core welded to the canister end caps (I haven't been given the OK to open up the canister yet. Still gathering information. We have had verification that this is an original Mugen part by a former factory Mugen mechanic.

tunedlength wrote:
Aluminum core, you would think it would have at least distorted from the heat. You could see gas temp of 600F+ at the silencer. What does...
Aluminum core, you would think it would have at least distorted from the heat.
You could see gas temp of 600F+ at the silencer.

What does your guy use for the rendering? nice work.
tunedlength, The modeling is done with "Rhinoceros" and the rendering (the photograph looking shots) are done with HyperShot. And the work being done for me is really the low end (cheap for me) stuff. As for the Aluminum core, I'm recreating the past, not improving upon it.

stillwelding
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stillwelding 6/18/2011 8:58am
6/18/2011 8:58am
stillwelding wrote:
I have a guy who makes the part for me in 3-D so I can get the dimensions accurate. After that he can unfold (flatten out)...
I have a guy who makes the part for me in 3-D so I can get the dimensions accurate. After that he can unfold (flatten out) the parts for me. I then have the sheet metal parts waterjet cut and in this case the end caps (front and rear) and the round mount turned. Files are generated of the end cap so that they can go directly on a CNC turning center and are accurate from the first part. Same for the water jet cut mount. I'll make tooling (a jig) off of the original part and hand bend and roll the sheet metal. This Mugen silencer was made from rolled sheet metal, not a piece of tubing.
It's funny though, the guy that does the rendering is so non-moto, that when I got the drawings back today, he said "Here's the rendering for that tube, or whatever you said it was".
uk125250 wrote:
Ask him if he is using solidworks to render that if you dont mind.
See the answer I gave to Tunedlength

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stillwelding
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stillwelding 6/20/2011 4:04pm
6/20/2011 4:04pm
wildbill wrote:
cool stuff welderdude but, why don't you improve on this ancient design using modern empirical methodology and get the obvious hp lurking in technological advancement?
Here's that updated design you wanted. He just re-rendered it in Carbon Fiber. Looks great!

newmann
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newmann 6/20/2011 4:49pm
6/20/2011 4:49pm
wildbill wrote:
cool stuff welderdude but, why don't you improve on this ancient design using modern empirical methodology and get the obvious hp lurking in technological advancement?
stillwelding wrote:
Here's that updated design you wanted. He just re-rendered it in Carbon Fiber. Looks great! [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/users/1241/photos/48639/s1600_rhino880.jpg?1308610330[/img]
Here's that updated design you wanted. He just re-rendered it in Carbon Fiber. Looks great!

Heh, maybe I want one of those too. Very cool, "welderdude", very cool.
newmann
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newmann 2/12/2012 2:29pm
2/12/2012 2:29pm
Hey Bruce, I'll have another Mugen silencer this week if that other one you were waiting on never showed up. Let me know.
leeroy
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leeroy 2/12/2012 3:08pm
2/12/2012 3:08pm
hey bruce, do i know you ?
wildbill
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wildbill 2/12/2012 3:56pm
2/12/2012 3:56pm
wildbill wrote:
cool stuff welderdude but, why don't you improve on this ancient design using modern empirical methodology and get the obvious hp lurking in technological advancement?
stillwelding wrote:
Here's that updated design you wanted. He just re-rendered it in Carbon Fiber. Looks great! [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/users/1241/photos/48639/s1600_rhino880.jpg?1308610330[/img]
Here's that updated design you wanted. He just re-rendered it in Carbon Fiber. Looks great!

beautiful.

I'll take one and a bike to go with it. Wink
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Smitch 2/12/2012 4:18pm
2/12/2012 4:18pm
FORGET THE SILENCER!!

I want the whole bike.
nic
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nic 4/7/2012 7:22am
4/7/2012 7:22am
stillwelding wrote:
I'm making some new silencers for some VitalMX members and have to re-create the drawings before starting the work. The original "Restorer" (not the Vital member)...
I'm making some new silencers for some VitalMX members and have to re-create the drawings before starting the work. The original "Restorer" (not the Vital member) cleaned it up with a power wire brush. I know the front mount is still missing and the stinger is bent the wrong direction, but the rendering art work is great. I'll post the real thing when I'm done.







Hi,
I am intrested to Buy a vintage Mugen silencer...
Are it possible to email me on muppeke007@hotmail.com
Thancks for the Space Vital MX
tydog
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tydog 1/10/2014 5:34am
1/10/2014 5:34am
Whatever became of this project? I certainly hope that it did not "die on the vine".
newmann
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newmann 1/10/2014 8:38am
1/10/2014 8:38am
neverwasfastenuf wrote:
The welds on that original silencer looked hideous. I guess they got the job done though.
I think that's where it had been opened up to repack or repair it at one point in the past. What you should be complaining about is the haggared ass job someone did "restoring" the brushed aluminum finish with a wire wheel on a f'n bench grinder. That's the main reason I wanted another one for myself.Smile

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