New 450f kawi or 2013 Suzuki 450?

ken.milesky
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3/8/2013 7:49pm Edited Date/Time 3/12/2013 7:29pm
I have quite the debacle on my mind that i could really use some constructive help. ive been talking to dealers, friends, people at the international motorcycle show....seemingly everyone and their grandfather has been asked. But please read the whole thing before just shooting a reply because you have one or the other. I really need an outside to put themselves in my shoes and see what they would honestly do.

I'm 25 6'5 230 pounds been racing since I was 10 yrs old I stopped at the end of high school because of a close friends paralysis. I still owned a bike and still rode a lot but because of college it wasnt as much as i would like I had a 125 then moved to the 250f. I still own the 2004 250f and boy can I ride the shit out of it. I bought it from a pro who had it as his practice bike and i think it must be cammed out or something because any other bike i ride its nit and day the power difference. butttt Is starting to degrade and the amount of time I put into fixing things is not comparable to the amount of time I ride. I'm emotionally attached to this this because of everything I went through with it. My 125 got stolen so I went out the next day and bought a 2004 250f on eBay Because I needed the comfort of having a bike. A year or so later I wrecked it while scrubbing and destroyed my forks. Bought used forks off of eBay because I was a college kid and had no money especially after dumping 2200! The forks that came were faulty and I felt bad returning them so I tore them down and tried to figure out why they didn't work. Well I pretty much learned how to tear forks down really fast and put them back together and that was it! So I bought another pair of used forks. These ones worked though. This 2nd pair of forks was purchased in 2010 while the crash was in 2007 so I was tinkering with those forks for a long time! I have a picture where the bike sits there with no front end. Sad. So I get these forks on take it to the track and because the forks were fucked up prior it damaged the front bearing. Guess what happened when I went through the whoops section? Bearing exploded. Tire flopped side ways. I get the bearing fixed. The rear suspensions seizes. I swap the rear and apply a thing called GREASE and then the awesome running bike starts running lean. (Well its popping could be a number of things valves, carb...) there's still a few little things that need to be ironed out other then getting that baby purring again but I was thinking heyyyy while I fix the issue and its apart I might as well throw in a new piston rings and gasket and heyyyyy why not a big bore kit!? After all the time I've spent with it trying to get it to prime time again I'm starting to think whats next!? Now it's 2013 we have FI and air shocks and adjustable foot pegs and things that I would not have to worry about when I'm on the track a bike that feels lighter and nimbler etc etc. I sigh before I say this but should I spend the time and lesser amount of money to do the big bore and adjust the valves ? Lazy practical me says "your working now and are spinning your wheels wasting time fixing this bike that is considered old now". I want something faster though but feel like a new 450 would make me want to race and I fear ending up like my friend. Im a fast rider on a 250f and my skill level is up to par with that speed on my 250f (my cardio is not) hence why I said I could ride the shit out of my 250f. I'm 6'5 230 though and that's a lot of weight for a 250f I feel like someone my size need to be on a 450 but with my speed and cardio I feel like it would be dangerous as the skill level on a 450 would also be degraded a bit. I'm paying off loans now but I'm getting older and my friends just bought new 450s and we are riding tracks more and more And eventually I want to do a race or two because well that's why I did all of the above....it's in my blood I have to. Can some one please help me with some in sight or prior experience because the warm weather is soon to be here and well I'm about to have a nervous breakdown because I don't know what to do hahah!
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Torco1
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3/8/2013 8:06pm
I would personally get a 450 .......they are more reliable and have way more than enough power for anything you would be doing on it. I went from a 250f to a 450 and yes I might be faster on the 250 at certain places but I'd much rather have the 450.
The Rock
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3/8/2013 9:16pm
Two things:

1) Your bike is popping is more than likely due to the muffler having little to no packing. When was the last time you repacked it?

2) If money is an issue go the 290 route but if you can afford it a 450 would be sweet.
mxrose3
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3/8/2013 9:29pm
popping could be a number of things, but it mainly means that your bike is running lean. Try turning out on your fuel screw or going a size or two larger on the pilot to start.
If you can afford it, sell the 250F and get a 450. Even a lightly used 450. They are way less maintenance intensive than a 250F. You'll spend less money in the long run if you plan on riding for several more years.
ken.milesky
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3/10/2013 2:54pm
The Rock wrote:
Two things: 1) Your bike is popping is more than likely due to the muffler having little to no packing. When was the last time you...
Two things:

1) Your bike is popping is more than likely due to the muffler having little to no packing. When was the last time you repacked it?

2) If money is an issue go the 290 route but if you can afford it a 450 would be sweet.
Hey good call on the packing...I recently packed it but I must have got alittle too light on it

Money isn't reallly the issue it's my safety vs convenience vs upgrade/progress

The Shop

jtiger12
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Forest H Ill, MD US
3/10/2013 3:07pm
At 6'5" and 230 pounds, you should get the 450. After a couple months, jump on a friend's 2stroke for a lap or 2. I'm 6'2"and 230, and love mine.
R-acer
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3/10/2013 3:21pm
450
The Rock
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3/10/2013 3:27pm Edited Date/Time 3/10/2013 3:48pm
The Rock wrote:
Two things: 1) Your bike is popping is more than likely due to the muffler having little to no packing. When was the last time you...
Two things:

1) Your bike is popping is more than likely due to the muffler having little to no packing. When was the last time you repacked it?

2) If money is an issue go the 290 route but if you can afford it a 450 would be sweet.
Hey good call on the packing...I recently packed it but I must have got alittle too light on it Money isn't reallly the issue it's my...
Hey good call on the packing...I recently packed it but I must have got alittle too light on it

Money isn't reallly the issue it's my safety vs convenience vs upgrade/progress
Based on your budget response decision is an easy one: Given your size and the age of your 250 stepping up to a 450 would be my suggestion. On the other hand we do get attached to our scooters and if your 250 is totally dialed for you an argument could be made for going the 290 route. I wouldn't go that route though without a lower end/rod replacement unless you've done this already within the last 20 engine hours.
ken.milesky
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3/10/2013 3:32pm
Haha I love how you guys all comment on the popping first! True moto heads always have to have that bike running tip top! Nothing runs more tip top then a brand new 450f though! You guys are right! Ill probably just keep the 250 so my friends can ride it and get a 450f! Next question...green or yellow. I've ridden the 2012 and its super well rounded just like the say in the shoot outs and first rides. Actually they are dead on! ( I had to watch every single first ride/ shoot out!) they clamor about a bunch of pluses for the Suzuki rather then the 2 things for the kawi, air forks and engine. The kawi has the adjustable foot pegs, launch mode which is cool and the adjustable handlebars which can be adjusted for my height. I've never ridden it before but they say its a rear end turning bike unlike the Suzuki which is a front end turning bike. I've been taught to be a front end guy so it's all I know. Hey for all I know I might be a rear end guy! The Suzuki I hopped on and felt right at home (just like they all say in the first rides) manageable power, sick turning ability, amazing suspension and the brakes...wow. Any thoughts?
ken.milesky
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3/10/2013 3:49pm
The Rock wrote:
Two things: 1) Your bike is popping is more than likely due to the muffler having little to no packing. When was the last time you...
Two things:

1) Your bike is popping is more than likely due to the muffler having little to no packing. When was the last time you repacked it?

2) If money is an issue go the 290 route but if you can afford it a 450 would be sweet.
Hey good call on the packing...I recently packed it but I must have got alittle too light on it Money isn't reallly the issue it's my...
Hey good call on the packing...I recently packed it but I must have got alittle too light on it

Money isn't reallly the issue it's my safety vs convenience vs upgrade/progress
The Rock wrote:
Based on your budget response decision is an easy one: Given your size and the age of your 250 stepping up to a 450 would be...
Based on your budget response decision is an easy one: Given your size and the age of your 250 stepping up to a 450 would be my suggestion. On the other hand we do get attached to our scooters and if your 250 is totally dialed for you an argument could be made for going the 290 route. I wouldn't go that route though without a lower end/rod replacement unless you've done this already within the last 20 engine hours.
Yeah man I'm attached without a doubt like you said. The motor since I got it has always been a rocket. And then the suspension thing happened and when I got the suspension all worked out FINALLY then the engine started popping...here's a you tube video at http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WsWTNCgcaXQ&feature=g-user-u 1:40 going down the hill it's louder when your on the bike and actually got worse the last time I rode it which is http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mp5x69fB5Dk. The packing was in sheets. I think it's just a breathing issue which the packing would have an effect but in the cold it obviously got worse.....
ken.milesky
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3/10/2013 3:54pm
R-acer wrote:
450
Looks like you have a saki...I'm thinking yellow or green why'd you go green other than brand loyalty if that's the reason.
mattmatt300
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3/11/2013 8:34pm
Go green! At your size the Kawi should be the better fit.
mxrose3
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3/11/2013 8:35pm
They are all pretty damn close. At the amateur level, its all a matter of personal preference, dealer support, out the door price, or your favorite color. But really though... ask yourself what you are really looking for in a bike, and then read some of the tests to see what the bikes strong points and weak points are.
gfmoto
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US
3/11/2013 10:07pm
For a guy your size the Kawi is a better fit, but the motor on the kawi is not very forgiving. The Suzuki is an easier motor to handle coming off a 250 you will find the suzuki much mellower. The 13 RMZ needs suspension help stock the Kawi suspension is better. I have a 12 Kawi and my ridding buddy has the 13 Suzuki so I have ridden both. Buy the Suzuki get some taller bars and a revalve you'll be in heaven.
nytsmaC
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3/12/2013 12:17am
Get the Kawi, I'm a little taller than you and bought a Zuk, sold it with less than 10 hours on it. Ergos are not suited to us tall guys at all.
GHR
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3/12/2013 12:28am
My 2012 Kawi is a freaking dream to ride. Love it.
Either way you can't go wrong, you need to be on a 450.
Denn700
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Shreveport, LA US
3/12/2013 5:31am
I have a Kawi and I am 5'7 and 150 pounds. I put the black coupler in and the power feels more like a 250f compared to the green and white ones. kawasaki says the black is the agressive one but mxa and everyone else knows its tbe soft map. I also have a 13 ktm350 and that may be the perfect bike for you. I have also ridden the 13 RMZ and CRF 450. They are both great bikes but with your size I would stay away from the honda. It is much smaller than tbe others and the pegs are much higber so you might feel cramped.
ToolMaker
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3/12/2013 7:03am
Haha I love how you guys all comment on the popping first! True moto heads always have to have that bike running tip top! Nothing runs...
Haha I love how you guys all comment on the popping first! True moto heads always have to have that bike running tip top! Nothing runs more tip top then a brand new 450f though! You guys are right! Ill probably just keep the 250 so my friends can ride it and get a 450f! Next question...green or yellow. I've ridden the 2012 and its super well rounded just like the say in the shoot outs and first rides. Actually they are dead on! ( I had to watch every single first ride/ shoot out!) they clamor about a bunch of pluses for the Suzuki rather then the 2 things for the kawi, air forks and engine. The kawi has the adjustable foot pegs, launch mode which is cool and the adjustable handlebars which can be adjusted for my height. I've never ridden it before but they say its a rear end turning bike unlike the Suzuki which is a front end turning bike. I've been taught to be a front end guy so it's all I know. Hey for all I know I might be a rear end guy! The Suzuki I hopped on and felt right at home (just like they all say in the first rides) manageable power, sick turning ability, amazing suspension and the brakes...wow. Any thoughts?
MA800 likes and still rides the 2012 vs 2013, of course they are not the stock bike but they claim everything on it is available to buy. maybe a slightly used bike which leaves money for add ons?
richter28
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3/12/2013 7:47am
Gotta get the Kawi if you're 6'5"
mellonhs
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3/12/2013 8:00am
suzi has a bttr deal goin on right now. My dealer quoted me $8500 for the kaw and my suzi dealer quoted me $7450 for the suzi stock and $8200 for it with a yoshi installed.....
ken.milesky
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3/12/2013 9:23am
Pretty much 50-50 similar to my brain. Kawi guys have a stronger case being tall and everything and well the suspension. My only slight deterant is yes that the engine is less forgiving! Haha it sounds geh but I need to keep it on 2 wheels and the motor I forecast will wear out my shitty cardio even faster. But will the fact that ill be more comfortable counter that!? (This sucks) I wasn't uncomfortable at all on the Suzuki actually I was more comfortable than on my 250f which has the higher seat and bars. The only thing that was uncomfortable was the way he liked his shifter, all the way up! (Wtf) the one post suggested a coupler change which I thought would be the perfect remedy. But can any one else on the kawi can attest that a coupler change will indeed make it similar to the smoother power curve like on the Suzuki?
ken.milesky
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3/12/2013 9:29am
mellonhs wrote:
suzi has a bttr deal goin on right now. My dealer quoted me $8500 for the kaw and my suzi dealer quoted me $7450 for the...
suzi has a bttr deal goin on right now. My dealer quoted me $8500 for the kaw and my suzi dealer quoted me $7450 for the suzi stock and $8200 for it with a yoshi installed.....
For the kawi I received a quote for 7900 before the fees and shit so 8600 but I have a 500 dollar off international motorcycle show coupon thing. That I could throw down at the register after we haggle each other back and forth. Hahah. I haven't received the quote yet for the "zoom" (hahah never heard that)
ken.milesky
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3/12/2013 9:31am
nytsmaC wrote:
Get the Kawi, I'm a little taller than you and bought a Zuk, sold it with less than 10 hours on it. Ergos are not suited...
Get the Kawi, I'm a little taller than you and bought a Zuk, sold it with less than 10 hours on it. Ergos are not suited to us tall guys at all.
I almost have to get the kawi just because of your profile pic. I'm pretty sure he would give the best reasoning ever. "Cuz it's the fuckin shit that's why!" Hahah
ken.milesky
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3/12/2013 9:33am
GHR wrote:
My 2012 Kawi is a freaking dream to ride. Love it.
Either way you can't go wrong, you need to be on a 450.
Dd you mess with the foot peg adjustments at all?
3/12/2013 9:35am
My personal choice would be the Zook for a few reasons, but considering your height, I'll agree with the rest of the family and suggest the Kawi.
dak446
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3/12/2013 9:36am Edited Date/Time 3/12/2013 9:37am
nytsmaC wrote:
Get the Kawi, I'm a little taller than you and bought a Zuk, sold it with less than 10 hours on it. Ergos are not suited...
Get the Kawi, I'm a little taller than you and bought a Zuk, sold it with less than 10 hours on it. Ergos are not suited to us tall guys at all.
I didn't think that at all. I love the Suzuki, feels really good ergonomically, and I'm almost 6'3". Best feeling bike I've ever ridden and handles like a dream.

But to each his own.
ken.milesky
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3/12/2013 9:59am
nytsmaC wrote:
Get the Kawi, I'm a little taller than you and bought a Zuk, sold it with less than 10 hours on it. Ergos are not suited...
Get the Kawi, I'm a little taller than you and bought a Zuk, sold it with less than 10 hours on it. Ergos are not suited to us tall guys at all.
dak446 wrote:
I didn't think that at all. I love the Suzuki, feels really good ergonomically, and I'm almost 6'3". Best feeling bike I've ever ridden and handles...
I didn't think that at all. I love the Suzuki, feels really good ergonomically, and I'm almost 6'3". Best feeling bike I've ever ridden and handles like a dream.

But to each his own.
Nytsmac: what did you get after you sold the zook? I'm assuming the kawi?

Dak yeah I'm sure the kawi handles well too but I know from experience that it handled like a dream. You can even see it in videos when they gas it the rear doesn't hop it stays straight when is some kawi that rear wheel breaks loose a lot and hops that might be because of the power curve the way it hits hard from the bottom or track conditions what have you but still...

Any one on the rear and front end steering differences for the bikes? They claim that kawi is a rear end steering bike and the zook is a front end steerer?
dak446
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3/12/2013 10:03am
I was a big fan of the front-end feel of the Zuk. Where I pointed it, it went.
burn1986
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3/12/2013 10:13am
At your size you need at least a 450. But heck, if money,s no prob, you could look into a 500AF and put a flywheel weight on it.

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