Transworld review KTM 2 strokes. Awesome..

2strokerider 6/17/2011 12:24am
6/17/2011 12:24am
jmar wrote:
Overdrive Yamaha is in the process of phasing out their YZ two strokes, and you and others are not going to be able to change that...
Overdrive

Yamaha is in the process of phasing out their YZ two strokes, and you and others are not going to be able to change that. KTM makes a great bike, and they are working hard to cater to those who love to ride the two strokes. Support those who are working to fill your needs, or they follow the other OEMs and start to phase out the two strokes also.

BTW: Yamaha was the class leader in the four stroke development, and that's why they have moved their displacement over the developmental process.
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Yeah, but I wouldn't be surprise to see another company trying to fill that void when Yamaha drops the line. Time will only tell, but for...
Yeah, but I wouldn't be surprise to see another company trying to fill that void when Yamaha drops the line. Time will only tell, but for instance a lagging company like Suzuki would only be smart to fill it. I mean, you can't go much further down from last place...
suzuki still make 2 strokes over here- ok, they are still called k8s, but they are around 2k cheaper than the yam and ktms, and the rm 250 is a GREAT bike- i've ridden them for years. Yamaha are charging around the same price for a yz250 as it costs for a new ktm 250, but the yams not changed since 06 (at least suzuki offer a discount for the 'lack of development')
scotttydog 6/17/2011 2:49am
6/17/2011 2:49am
Yeah I was checking a new RM 250 today, they are sooo cheap!
Just mite pick me up one sometime.

Are these new RM's old stock? that's what I'm hearing, or are they fresh off the line?
burn1986
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burn1986 6/17/2011 5:10am
6/17/2011 5:10am Edited Date/Time 6/17/2011 6:29am
You know, when you look back at the introduction of the 400cc, and the current campaign of the promoters and the OEMs to eradicate the 2-strokes, its important to realize that it is an active campaign against the 2-stroke and any person or company who champions this cause.

Just like a war, you have people who actually try and relate to the enemy, and justify the enemy's actions, while their land and possessions are plundered. OK, we're not exactly in a war (per se) with the OEMs over 2-strokes, but the patterns are still the same. The OEMs have used tactics to threaten and promote their agenda, which is to force the US consumer to buy a more expensive, more compicated race machine, and we have people who are telling us that this is for our own good and that it's a wonderful thing.

What's disturbing is not the fact that this is happening, but the people who have jumped on the OEM's bandwagon trying to justify how good the OEM's idea is and how we should just go with it and accept it, all the while giving us great arguements on why the OEMs did this. In fact, after awhile, they begin championing the "cause" and actively justifying the actions and behaviors of the OEMs. Meanwhile, anyone who brings up something different or against the wonderful OEMs is told to just shut up and stop spoiling the 4-stroke party with our stupid 2-stroke ranting.
2strokerider 6/17/2011 5:36am
6/17/2011 5:36am
scotttydog wrote:
Yeah I was checking a new RM 250 today, they are sooo cheap! Just mite pick me up one sometime. Are these new RM's old stock...
Yeah I was checking a new RM 250 today, they are sooo cheap!
Just mite pick me up one sometime.

Are these new RM's old stock? that's what I'm hearing, or are they fresh off the line?
the uk ones are brand new (not old stock) - i was told suzuki will carry on making a limited number of 2 strokes for the european market if demand is there(which it is) - my local dealer sells as many as he can get in before they even open the crate! I got 2 brand new rm 250s in february, great bikes!

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burn1986
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burn1986 6/17/2011 6:22am
6/17/2011 6:22am
Are new ones coming to the US?
2strokerider 6/17/2011 7:01am
6/17/2011 7:01am
burn1986 wrote:
Are new ones coming to the US?
i heard a rumour that they were sending limited numbers of new rm 125 and rm 250s to the US, not sure how many, or even if its true! I know they will still be available for the european market again this year though (according to my local dealer)

it would be a very smart move on suzuki's part if they did start selling the 2 strokes in the US again, granted they havent had any development since 08, but neither have the yams! Theyre great bikes, for a great price.

Do you think they would sell well in the US if suzuki did start to sell them again? I do
reded
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reded 6/17/2011 7:23am
6/17/2011 7:23am
burn1986 wrote:
Are new ones coming to the US?
2strokerider wrote:
i heard a rumour that they were sending limited numbers of new rm 125 and rm 250s to the US, not sure how many, or even...
i heard a rumour that they were sending limited numbers of new rm 125 and rm 250s to the US, not sure how many, or even if its true! I know they will still be available for the european market again this year though (according to my local dealer)

it would be a very smart move on suzuki's part if they did start selling the 2 strokes in the US again, granted they havent had any development since 08, but neither have the yams! Theyre great bikes, for a great price.

Do you think they would sell well in the US if suzuki did start to sell them again? I do
I believe they WOULD be a big seller due to the fact that the ones that are still being raced or ridden are most likely getting well worn by now.
aFACEdismembered 6/17/2011 7:53am
6/17/2011 7:53am Edited Date/Time 6/17/2011 7:55am
reded wrote:
I believe they WOULD be a big seller due to the fact that the ones that are still being raced or ridden are most likely getting...
I believe they WOULD be a big seller due to the fact that the ones that are still being raced or ridden are most likely getting well worn by now.
I just bought a used 05 KX 250R. Only because from 05-07 they changed the frame and motor and a few other minor upgrades. It took me forever to find one at all for a reasonable price and took even longer to find one with a clean title and not 6 years of obvious wear to it. If Kawi still made smokers I would have gone to my old race support shop, Sammy White's Kawasaki City, and got one new. Kawi let my money go to a random stranger in Round Rock instead of a personal dealer who has been there for decades. How that helps their 4 stroke business is beyond me.

If the outboard motor industry and snowmobile industry have been making smokers with direct injection since the mid 2000's that are almost/as efficient as 4 bangers why can't Japan? Granted. This question has always been pre Tsunami/Earthquake.
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Suns_PSD 6/17/2011 8:41am
6/17/2011 8:41am Edited Date/Time 6/17/2011 8:42am
It's a shame that this thread just couldn't stay focused on these 3 exciting motorcycles from a manufacturer willing to provide us w/ options.

W/o KTMs I suspect I would have given up riding all together for lack of interest and no desire to ride outdated machinery.

But my friends are all still buying 4 strokes. I don't get it but different strokes for different folks I guess.

I think in a rather stale motorcycle marketplace that these are most exciting bikes of 2012 and that they really stand out. I was struck by how the testers wanted the 150 over the other bikes.

I have a KTM Motard on consignment at my local KTM dealer and it might turn in to a trade-in for a 2012 250SX. My dealer told me that ALL of the interest is on the 2 stroke line at this point and that he wishes he could get more of those and less 4 strokes.

Also, watching the TransWorld video, I've never seen a KTM track that well thru the whoops. Especially the 2 strokes. Linkage alone might be responsible for all I know.
FreshTopEnd
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FreshTopEnd 6/17/2011 8:44am
6/17/2011 8:44am
burn1986 wrote:
You know, when you look back at the introduction of the 400cc, and the current campaign of the promoters and the OEMs to eradicate the 2-strokes...
You know, when you look back at the introduction of the 400cc, and the current campaign of the promoters and the OEMs to eradicate the 2-strokes, its important to realize that it is an active campaign against the 2-stroke and any person or company who champions this cause.

Just like a war, you have people who actually try and relate to the enemy, and justify the enemy's actions, while their land and possessions are plundered. OK, we're not exactly in a war (per se) with the OEMs over 2-strokes, but the patterns are still the same. The OEMs have used tactics to threaten and promote their agenda, which is to force the US consumer to buy a more expensive, more compicated race machine, and we have people who are telling us that this is for our own good and that it's a wonderful thing.

What's disturbing is not the fact that this is happening, but the people who have jumped on the OEM's bandwagon trying to justify how good the OEM's idea is and how we should just go with it and accept it, all the while giving us great arguements on why the OEMs did this. In fact, after awhile, they begin championing the "cause" and actively justifying the actions and behaviors of the OEMs. Meanwhile, anyone who brings up something different or against the wonderful OEMs is told to just shut up and stop spoiling the 4-stroke party with our stupid 2-stroke ranting.
Lightning78
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Lightning78 6/17/2011 9:11am
6/17/2011 9:11am
scotttydog wrote:
Yeah I was checking a new RM 250 today, they are sooo cheap! Just mite pick me up one sometime. Are these new RM's old stock...
Yeah I was checking a new RM 250 today, they are sooo cheap!
Just mite pick me up one sometime.

Are these new RM's old stock? that's what I'm hearing, or are they fresh off the line?
2strokerider wrote:
the uk ones are brand new (not old stock) - i was told suzuki will carry on making a limited number of 2 strokes for the...
the uk ones are brand new (not old stock) - i was told suzuki will carry on making a limited number of 2 strokes for the european market if demand is there(which it is) - my local dealer sells as many as he can get in before they even open the crate! I got 2 brand new rm 250s in february, great bikes!
I was out at milestone last weekend and a certain head of a big magazine was parked next to me saw my cherry 06 rm250 and said w/o me making one comment that it was/is the best 250 2 stroke they have ever ridden he said this even after they had just finished the 2012 ktm test ..... I wish Suzuki would bring them back I looooove that bike best one I personally have ever ridden. I'll never sell either my 06 or 01...... Anyone notice every time a pro tester or rider says when they are done riding a 2 stroke it is always followed by "so much fun!" And fun is why I ride. 4's for me made riding a lot less fun and I sort of lost interest until I got some 2 strokes now you can't keep me away from the track or the hills .... That's not for everyone but it is for me, call me old fashioned but they are just better suited to what I think an mx bike should be light fast and fun.
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Racer92 6/17/2011 9:27am
6/17/2011 9:27am
Lightning78 wrote:
I was out at milestone last weekend and a certain head of a big magazine was parked next to me saw my cherry 06 rm250 and...
I was out at milestone last weekend and a certain head of a big magazine was parked next to me saw my cherry 06 rm250 and said w/o me making one comment that it was/is the best 250 2 stroke they have ever ridden he said this even after they had just finished the 2012 ktm test ..... I wish Suzuki would bring them back I looooove that bike best one I personally have ever ridden. I'll never sell either my 06 or 01...... Anyone notice every time a pro tester or rider says when they are done riding a 2 stroke it is always followed by "so much fun!" And fun is why I ride. 4's for me made riding a lot less fun and I sort of lost interest until I got some 2 strokes now you can't keep me away from the track or the hills .... That's not for everyone but it is for me, call me old fashioned but they are just better suited to what I think an mx bike should be light fast and fun.
Dont feel alone, Ive had much better riders than myself tell me the very same thing about my '05 at the track also. ( > 2005 are basically the same bike )
miedosoracing1 6/17/2011 9:31am
6/17/2011 9:31am
Lightning78 wrote:
I was out at milestone last weekend and a certain head of a big magazine was parked next to me saw my cherry 06 rm250 and...
I was out at milestone last weekend and a certain head of a big magazine was parked next to me saw my cherry 06 rm250 and said w/o me making one comment that it was/is the best 250 2 stroke they have ever ridden he said this even after they had just finished the 2012 ktm test ..... I wish Suzuki would bring them back I looooove that bike best one I personally have ever ridden. I'll never sell either my 06 or 01...... Anyone notice every time a pro tester or rider says when they are done riding a 2 stroke it is always followed by "so much fun!" And fun is why I ride. 4's for me made riding a lot less fun and I sort of lost interest until I got some 2 strokes now you can't keep me away from the track or the hills .... That's not for everyone but it is for me, call me old fashioned but they are just better suited to what I think an mx bike should be light fast and fun.
Racer92 wrote:
Dont feel alone, Ive had much better riders than myself tell me the very same thing about my '05 at the track also. ( > 2005...
Dont feel alone, Ive had much better riders than myself tell me the very same thing about my '05 at the track also. ( > 2005 are basically the same bike )
I have some cases that I've had sitting around for an 05. Some day I'll find a broke one and use them. Unfortunately, I haven't found any broke 05+ RM250's.
panic revver 6/17/2011 9:40am
6/17/2011 9:40am
FreshTopEnd wrote:
They killed off the open class because some of the OEM's didn't want to fund another displacement class at the pro level. Suzuki had bailed altogether...
They killed off the open class because some of the OEM's didn't want to fund another displacement class at the pro level. Suzuki had bailed altogether years before the class went away and Yamaha went through the motions for several years.

It actually made racing better because the talent wasn't diluted between the two classes and you had a decent season, rather than the prior set up with talent split up, or two short 5 races series with the same guys on 250's and 500's, in whicb the series was over as soon as one guy had a bad day.

If anything killed off the 500's, it was the emergence of the 125 class in the mid 70's and SX playing a more central role in the teams. Safety had little to nothing to do with the 500 class going away.

"Fair" has nothing to do with the engine type debate IMO. The rules may not make a two stroke a viable option to the 100-200 pros that this matters to, but those riders are all subject to the same rule, which is the only real fairness issue. The lack of equal resources is going to be a problem no matter what type of engine people use.
Could we get this post stickied?
2strokerider 6/17/2011 9:49am
6/17/2011 9:49am
Suns_PSD wrote:
It's a shame that this thread just couldn't stay focused on these 3 exciting motorcycles from a manufacturer willing to provide us w/ options. W/o KTMs...
It's a shame that this thread just couldn't stay focused on these 3 exciting motorcycles from a manufacturer willing to provide us w/ options.

W/o KTMs I suspect I would have given up riding all together for lack of interest and no desire to ride outdated machinery.

But my friends are all still buying 4 strokes. I don't get it but different strokes for different folks I guess.

I think in a rather stale motorcycle marketplace that these are most exciting bikes of 2012 and that they really stand out. I was struck by how the testers wanted the 150 over the other bikes.

I have a KTM Motard on consignment at my local KTM dealer and it might turn in to a trade-in for a 2012 250SX. My dealer told me that ALL of the interest is on the 2 stroke line at this point and that he wishes he could get more of those and less 4 strokes.

Also, watching the TransWorld video, I've never seen a KTM track that well thru the whoops. Especially the 2 strokes. Linkage alone might be responsible for all I know.
thing is though, like i have said before- the ktms are GREAT bikes to ride, but if they're ridden hard they're just too unreliable!!! I race in the national 2 stroke championship in the UK, and almost all the riders in my race that ride ktms have had major problems! Thats the one and only reason i will never buy a ktm- the jap 2 strokes are pretty much bulletproof, the yams are very good, but i love the suzukis- they are everything a 2 stroke should be, and handle like nothing else. I've been racing RM250s for 11 years now! I have considered other models (ive ridden every other brand 250 smoker each year) but nothing puts a smile on my face quite like the RM- its so much fun to ride!

You have to respect ktm for carrying on making/ development with the 2 strokes but heres a list of some of the problems the ktm riders in my race have had just this year alone:-
- snapped rear shock body (the main body not the spring) its happened twice to one rider and ive seen it happen to others too
- snapped rear wheel spindle- another common thing to happen! have a look at a ktm rear wheel spindle next to a jap one- the inner diameter is almost the same as the outer)
- reeds pulling though into the barrel (one rider has had problems with this at least 5 or 6 times, another 3 or 4 riders have had the same problem
- clutch problems are very common
- snapped triple clamps
- snapped subframe (happened to a few different riders)
- more than one catastophic engine failure!!! (one of them did £1300 worth of damage!!!!)

i think the main problem with the ktms is they have tried to make them too light- shame as theyre great bikes to ride, id have one tomorrow if i thought it wouldnt fall to bits
burn1986
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burn1986 6/17/2011 9:56am
6/17/2011 9:56am Edited Date/Time 6/17/2011 10:15am
Weird, I wonder if the 4-strokes have similar problems. I think some of the early models of the 144sx had some problems, but I'm not sure if they've been remedied.
miedosoracing1 6/17/2011 11:18am
6/17/2011 11:18am
Same here, I've heard of older bike problems, but hear nothing but good things about reliability now. Again, 300xc's getting 300+ hours on a stock piston. I liked my 250xcw so much I'm trying to get the 300xc. As far as pro's racing and breaking, happens to them all. How many this year at the nationals? Seen quite a few pushing their bikes, including KTM, but not limited to them. Pro's are much different on their bikes, then us amateurs.

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burn1986
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burn1986 6/17/2011 12:06pm
6/17/2011 12:06pm
I wonder if there's some kind of European spec or something different than the US that's possibly causing these failures?

Post a reply to: Transworld review KTM 2 strokes. Awesome..