Top Am C rider vs Local pro?

SlowOldGuy 3/12/2010 6:38am
3/12/2010 6:38am
oldschoolmxr203 wrote:
Jeremy Mcgrath, won the 1987 125 c class at LL
and he won a few titles after lol
flarider wrote:
OK, smarty pants.....another LL's title
oldschoolmxr203 wrote:
only rider i can think of would be....
Greg Scnell,
not sure on the spelling, pretty sure he won an A class later?
Greg Schnell doesn't show up as having ever won at LLs.
SlowOldGuy 3/12/2010 6:40am
3/12/2010 6:40am
Nearly all of the riders on the gate at a SX who were born in America won at least one LLs title.
703
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703 3/12/2010 6:50am
3/12/2010 6:50am
loftyair wrote:
No, top C am cannot touch an 'actual' pro. Unless you live in a place where the pros really suck. My local tracks top pros are...
No, top C am cannot touch an 'actual' pro. Unless you live in a place where the pros really suck. My local tracks top pros are top-ten in sx/mx. So the so-so ones are still incredibly fast. The best Am C cannot even come close. Sometimes you'll have a pro that shouldn't be a pro and a C that also shouldn't be a C, then you could compare.
jmar wrote:
So who are the top ten pros that are at your local track?
I was wondering the same thing.... Here I was thinking the majority of the top pros reside in Socal and Florida, apparently they all just say that and actually live in Kingman, Arizona.
txmxer
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txmxer 3/12/2010 6:53am
3/12/2010 6:53am
loftyair wrote:
No, top C am cannot touch an 'actual' pro. Unless you live in a place where the pros really suck. My local tracks top pros are...
No, top C am cannot touch an 'actual' pro. Unless you live in a place where the pros really suck. My local tracks top pros are top-ten in sx/mx. So the so-so ones are still incredibly fast. The best Am C cannot even come close. Sometimes you'll have a pro that shouldn't be a pro and a C that also shouldn't be a C, then you could compare.
jmar wrote:
So who are the top ten pros that are at your local track?
703 wrote:
I was wondering the same thing.... Here I was thinking the majority of the top pros reside in Socal and Florida, apparently they all just say...
I was wondering the same thing.... Here I was thinking the majority of the top pros reside in Socal and Florida, apparently they all just say that and actually live in Kingman, Arizona.
it's a secret...

We have a few in Texas and Oklahoma but Kingman, AZ is the real home of the top 10.

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flarider
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flarider 3/12/2010 6:58am
3/12/2010 6:58am
SlowOldGuy takes the square

Florida's Shaun Skinner is the only rider to win a LL's C title and go on to win another skill level division championship in B

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DDub8 3/12/2010 7:30am
3/12/2010 7:30am
Is a national C rider as fast as a local pro? I think it depends on the prize money and if a new truck is involved. David Snow was a pretty fast "novice" racer in his day.
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jeffro503 3/12/2010 7:40am
3/12/2010 7:40am
flarider wrote:
Depends on the pro and depends on the C rider Many many moons ago, on a planet far far away, before MX Sports implemented some of...
Depends on the pro and depends on the C rider


Many many moons ago, on a planet far far away, before MX Sports implemented some of its present C class rules, I know of, for a fact, riders who raced the "money class" (never called the "pro class") at certain track(s) but then raced C class at LL's, finishing top 5 and even getting a moto win.


It's hard for that to happen today with the interweb and all.


Do I think that some LL's C class winner, who lives in say Florida, Arizona, Texas or at MTF/GPF in Georgia where they can ride almost year around, can beat a local pro from some other area?

Yeah, I think we can find a local pro that can be easily beat by a LL's C class winner


BTW, a little LL's C Class trivia....only one rider has won a C class title at LL's and gone on to win another title, name the rider....
Dave...I am not sure which rider you are thinking of.....But i bet it's not the one i'm thinking of.

It IS an AMA pro title that he won......and won the "C" class at LL's also.
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newmann 3/12/2010 7:44am
3/12/2010 7:44am
dirtbikemike wrote:
some of the fastest pros in texas are in the C class
That's almost funny, and probably has a good bit of truth to it. Texas has produced some really good riders, but they really can't seem to make that transition to the national level let alone a championship level. Back around 1990/91 Jeff Dement showed up at Rio Bravo in Houston (his hometown) on RM80's the year before he moved up to 125's. He was the top 80 rider at the time if I'm not mistaken. He laid waste to the mini class that day busting out 1:41 lap times. Then came the "Pro" class, two local pro's were out there shredding the track blowing up all the berms and giving each other fits on KX250's. A really good battle. These were the guys who made the night show and we would see running near the back of the pack in the LCQ at the Houston SX. Their lap times were 1:52.
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flarider 3/12/2010 7:44am
3/12/2010 7:44am
flarider wrote:
Depends on the pro and depends on the C rider Many many moons ago, on a planet far far away, before MX Sports implemented some of...
Depends on the pro and depends on the C rider


Many many moons ago, on a planet far far away, before MX Sports implemented some of its present C class rules, I know of, for a fact, riders who raced the "money class" (never called the "pro class") at certain track(s) but then raced C class at LL's, finishing top 5 and even getting a moto win.


It's hard for that to happen today with the interweb and all.


Do I think that some LL's C class winner, who lives in say Florida, Arizona, Texas or at MTF/GPF in Georgia where they can ride almost year around, can beat a local pro from some other area?

Yeah, I think we can find a local pro that can be easily beat by a LL's C class winner


BTW, a little LL's C Class trivia....only one rider has won a C class title at LL's and gone on to win another title, name the rider....
jeffro503 wrote:
Dave...I am not sure which rider you are thinking of.....But i bet it's not the one i'm thinking of. It IS an AMA pro title that...
Dave...I am not sure which rider you are thinking of.....But i bet it's not the one i'm thinking of.

It IS an AMA pro title that he won......and won the "C" class at LL's also.
C class to winning another skill level title at LL's

It was already answered
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jeffro503 3/12/2010 7:58am
3/12/2010 7:58am
Ah....I didn't see that until after i posted. My friend Mike Corder won the "C" class at LL's but went on to win two AMA four stoke titles. Anyways.....that's what i was getting at.
SlowOldGuy 3/12/2010 8:01am
3/12/2010 8:01am
Skinner has company, I guess it is three who won a title after winning C.. Corder won 125C stock and mod and then a B title later.
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jeffro503 3/12/2010 8:07am
3/12/2010 8:07am
SlowOldGuy wrote:
Skinner has company, I guess it is three who won a title after winning C.. Corder won 125C stock and mod and then a B title...
Skinner has company, I guess it is three who won a title after winning C.. Corder won 125C stock and mod and then a B title later.
Yep.....i was thinking he had won 3-4 titles at LL's but wasn't sure on the exact amount. He had a few 2nd's and 3rds as well. One year ( not sure which ) but he had a good battle with T.P. at LL's to.

BTW....he actually just started riding again. He has been riding almost every single day for the past 6 weeks. He said he doesn't know if he's going to do any nationals , but it sure looks like he's training for them. His foot and ankle injury was severe enough where he was contemplating getting in amputated. Causes him a lot of pain and will walk around with a limp for the rest of his life. Mike is a good dude , i wish him well.....and am really glad to see him back out there riding....he's got some serious skills on a bike for sure.
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sdfog1 3/12/2010 8:08am
3/12/2010 8:08am
Around my area there is a rider that raced C at Loretta's this past year. He was a top five rider. Seems like most weekends someone posts on the local forums about him and how he was faster than all of the local A or pro riders at whatever track he was riding.
SlowOldGuy 3/12/2010 8:08am
3/12/2010 8:08am
WHat rider has won a title the most years in a row at LL. Tie between two.
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flarider 3/12/2010 8:10am
3/12/2010 8:10am
SlowOldGuy wrote:
Skinner has company, I guess it is three who won a title after winning C.. Corder won 125C stock and mod and then a B title...
Skinner has company, I guess it is three who won a title after winning C.. Corder won 125C stock and mod and then a B title later.
Really?

My bad then
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flarider 3/12/2010 8:11am
3/12/2010 8:11am
SlowOldGuy wrote:
WHat rider has won a title the most years in a row at LL. Tie between two.
Walker/Alessi?
SlowOldGuy 3/12/2010 8:36am
3/12/2010 8:36am
Wrong and Wrong. They have the most and second most, but not the most in a row.

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SIMX
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SIMX 3/12/2010 8:47am
3/12/2010 8:47am

I agree with most it will depend.

Last year at LL, Noah McConahy had a 1/23/1 in 450C class and if I remember right he was smoking the field. I noticed this week at Whitney he isn't having as good of luck,with a mid pack best, running anywhere from 4-9 seconds off the fastest "B"/Pro riders,who will be close or maybe faster than some of the top A guys.
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flarider 3/12/2010 9:06am
3/12/2010 9:06am
Remember the guy from NJ, Pasquale Morrocco who SMOKED everyone in his two C classes and was never heard from again?
Guy was showboatin' and gooning and shit and won by a mile in every moto

and vanished, at least on the national level

Kid emerged from the shadows, shattered the C class, and was never seen again at a national

that was in 2003
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loftyair 3/12/2010 9:42am
3/12/2010 9:42am
loftyair wrote:
No, top C am cannot touch an 'actual' pro. Unless you live in a place where the pros really suck. My local tracks top pros are...
No, top C am cannot touch an 'actual' pro. Unless you live in a place where the pros really suck. My local tracks top pros are top-ten in sx/mx. So the so-so ones are still incredibly fast. The best Am C cannot even come close. Sometimes you'll have a pro that shouldn't be a pro and a C that also shouldn't be a C, then you could compare.
jmar wrote:
So who are the top ten pros that are at your local track?
Blose, Boni, Buckelew. I have more speed than the fastest 'C' rider, although I am not in shape to do too many laps at that speed. But I cannot keep up with a mid-pack pro. Is it better to say you are a sucky pro or the fastest slow-guy? Classes will overlap of course some, but 2 classes apart shouldn't, or at least barely overlap.
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loftyair 3/12/2010 9:49am
3/12/2010 9:49am
loftyair wrote:
No, top C am cannot touch an 'actual' pro. Unless you live in a place where the pros really suck. My local tracks top pros are...
No, top C am cannot touch an 'actual' pro. Unless you live in a place where the pros really suck. My local tracks top pros are top-ten in sx/mx. So the so-so ones are still incredibly fast. The best Am C cannot even come close. Sometimes you'll have a pro that shouldn't be a pro and a C that also shouldn't be a C, then you could compare.
jmar wrote:
So who are the top ten pros that are at your local track?
703 wrote:
I was wondering the same thing.... Here I was thinking the majority of the top pros reside in Socal and Florida, apparently they all just say...
I was wondering the same thing.... Here I was thinking the majority of the top pros reside in Socal and Florida, apparently they all just say that and actually live in Kingman, Arizona.
'My' tracks are Vegas and Phoenix, when you live in a rural area, 2-3 hrs is local. When I lived in Cali, we would drive 3 hrs. to a track and still call it local so. cal.
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loftyair 3/12/2010 9:57am
3/12/2010 9:57am
SlowOldGuy wrote:
WHat rider has won a title the most years in a row at LL. Tie between two.
Keith Johnson, Earl May?
flarider
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flarider 3/12/2010 10:01am
3/12/2010 10:01am
Can you believe Earl only has 1 LL's title?
SIMX
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SIMX 3/12/2010 10:09am
3/12/2010 10:09am
flarider wrote:
Remember the guy from NJ, Pasquale Morrocco who SMOKED everyone in his two C classes and was never heard from again? Guy was showboatin' and gooning...
Remember the guy from NJ, Pasquale Morrocco who SMOKED everyone in his two C classes and was never heard from again?
Guy was showboatin' and gooning and shit and won by a mile in every moto

and vanished, at least on the national level

Kid emerged from the shadows, shattered the C class, and was never seen again at a national

that was in 2003
Probably an alias!Woohoo
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bogdan912 3/12/2010 10:14am
3/12/2010 10:14am
flarider wrote:
Remember the guy from NJ, Pasquale Morrocco who SMOKED everyone in his two C classes and was never heard from again? Guy was showboatin' and gooning...
Remember the guy from NJ, Pasquale Morrocco who SMOKED everyone in his two C classes and was never heard from again?
Guy was showboatin' and gooning and shit and won by a mile in every moto

and vanished, at least on the national level

Kid emerged from the shadows, shattered the C class, and was never seen again at a national

that was in 2003
SIMX wrote:
Probably an alias!Woohoo
He's around races A locally, usually races The wildwood beach race and stuff. But he doesn't ride or race seriously anymore.
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OSJ 3/12/2010 10:23am
3/12/2010 10:23am
the problems are this

AM riders will not turn pro if they have a chance at finishing well at LL's. they will sandbag and keep going in the hopes of a good finish there.

Local Pro, usually realizes that they will not really go anywhere and may as well make a bit of local purse money, or are older guys who already did the AM thing.

hard to compare the two, i am a top to midpack intermediate class racer and plan to step up my game this year to race as a local pro next year maybe. i just like to race with faster guys to make me faster.
SlowOldGuy 3/12/2010 10:31am
3/12/2010 10:31am
The answer is Stewart and Carmichael. Each won a title there 7 years in a row. Stewart 95-01 and Carmichael 90-96, 7 years in a row, unbelievably tough feat.
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lumpy790 3/12/2010 10:40am
3/12/2010 10:40am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 9:21pm
Back in the day....it was a problem but Since MXSports started keeping a watchful eye and put the rule in place where if you ever raced at LL before be it a 50-105 or whatever you can not race the C class it has made it fair. But........if a megga fast youth rider moves up to the big bikes but has not been to LL before.....he/she is legal to race C class.


Please dont flame me too bad but......In 1991 Even though I was an ex A/1 Pro national qualifying rider I was forced to ride C class at LL after coming out of a 5 year retirement........And I was not alone......there were 5 of us in the IL/IA/MO area that were ex A riders forced to ride in the 250 C class. Bad luck/Choking on a dirt clod/1st turn broken finger and I finished 23rd OA in both 250 C Stock & Mod. Cant think of his name but the kid who smoked the class but his dad owned Washougal. They said he rode an 80 the year before but grew like a foot in one year so at 14 he went to the big bikes.

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