Top Am C rider vs Local pro?

soren346
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soren346
Edited Date/Time 1/23/2012 1:04pm
Curious how a top Am C rider compares to a decent local pro. Never been to any Am Nationals, but I was thinking pretty close?
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Rasta88
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Rasta88 3/11/2010 9:02pm
3/11/2010 9:02pm
soren346 wrote:
Curious how a top Am C rider compares to a decent local pro. Never been to any Am Nationals, but I was thinking pretty close?
"Just go.."
soren346
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soren346 3/11/2010 9:05pm
3/11/2010 9:05pm
soren346 wrote:
Curious how a top Am C rider compares to a decent local pro. Never been to any Am Nationals, but I was thinking pretty close?
Rasta88 wrote:
"Just go.."
Thanks for the help...
motomom4
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motomom4 3/11/2010 9:16pm
3/11/2010 9:16pm Edited Date/Time 3/11/2010 9:31pm
Depends on who the local pro is, some are super fast some are not so fast...hope this helps. Seriously though, when my kid raced in the C class he was as fast or faster than a lot of local pros, and he was only 13 or 14 at the time.

The Shop

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Motodrew295
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Motodrew295 3/11/2010 9:58pm
3/11/2010 9:58pm
I would consider myself a mid- to back of the pack out of shape local pro at best. I would be happy to get a top 5 in the JR class at an AM-nat. lol. sucks getting older with more responsibilites, those little buggers just off 80s can hang it out. Along with many injuries comes common sense and backing it down a few notches to be able to walk monday is all part of it I guess.
JB 19
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JB 19 3/11/2010 10:05pm
3/11/2010 10:05pm
This is going nowhere good................................................
loftyair
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loftyair 3/11/2010 10:25pm
3/11/2010 10:25pm
No, top C am cannot touch an 'actual' pro. Unless you live in a place where the pros really suck. My local tracks top pros are top-ten in sx/mx. So the so-so ones are still incredibly fast. The best Am C cannot even come close. Sometimes you'll have a pro that shouldn't be a pro and a C that also shouldn't be a C, then you could compare.
Motodrew295
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Motodrew295 3/11/2010 10:35pm
3/11/2010 10:35pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 9:20pm
loftyair wrote:
No, top C am cannot touch an 'actual' pro. Unless you live in a place where the pros really suck. My local tracks top pros are...
No, top C am cannot touch an 'actual' pro. Unless you live in a place where the pros really suck. My local tracks top pros are top-ten in sx/mx. So the so-so ones are still incredibly fast. The best Am C cannot even come close. Sometimes you'll have a pro that shouldn't be a pro and a C that also shouldn't be a C, then you could compare.
Sometimes you'll have a pro that shouldn't be a pro and a C that also shouldn't be a C, then you could compare

I think that was the was the OP's implication. And it's not just sometimes with the novice class its a lot of the time.
Cody24
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Cody24 3/11/2010 11:28pm
3/11/2010 11:28pm
I remember quite a few years back when Josh Hill was running B class at Lorettas and back here at home he would kill Tiger Lacey. Hopefully thats a better example. Tiger is a fast local pro, but I would think a top C national rider would be just as fast or faster...
FastEddy
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FastEddy 3/12/2010 12:53am
3/12/2010 12:53am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 9:20pm
Cody24 wrote:
I remember quite a few years back when Josh Hill was running B class at Lorettas and back here at home he would kill Tiger Lacey...
I remember quite a few years back when Josh Hill was running B class at Lorettas and back here at home he would kill Tiger Lacey. Hopefully thats a better example. Tiger is a fast local pro, but I would think a top C national rider would be just as fast or faster...
Also when McCormick & Ryan Huffman moved up from 80's to 125's I believe they both raced B also.With that said,on tracks like PIR & Woodland they were pretty close to most local pros lap times.
project racer 3/12/2010 1:11am
3/12/2010 1:11am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 9:20pm
What the hell? C riders with the speed of a local Pro? That tells me you either got a sandbagging career C rider or some pitifully slow local pro's. When District 8 here was a recognized AMA district back in the '70's-'80's, I got a letter in the mail from the points keeper after six or seven wins in the C class telling me that I was being advanced to B, along with a new district card.That meant get the fugg out of the C class, not ride it until you are as fast as the local Pro.

WTF is a national C rider? Ridiculous. When you have a C rider running with a Pro,local or not, something is terribly wrong with the advancement system in this sport.
soren346
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soren346 3/12/2010 2:12am
3/12/2010 2:12am
project racer wrote:
What the hell? C riders with the speed of a local Pro? That tells me you either got a sandbagging career C rider or some pitifully...
What the hell? C riders with the speed of a local Pro? That tells me you either got a sandbagging career C rider or some pitifully slow local pro's. When District 8 here was a recognized AMA district back in the '70's-'80's, I got a letter in the mail from the points keeper after six or seven wins in the C class telling me that I was being advanced to B, along with a new district card.That meant get the fugg out of the C class, not ride it until you are as fast as the local Pro.

WTF is a national C rider? Ridiculous. When you have a C rider running with a Pro,local or not, something is terribly wrong with the advancement system in this sport.
Don't think you understand the post...
RMZ819
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RMZ819 3/12/2010 2:14am
3/12/2010 2:14am
The top 10 C riders at LL's would kick the shit out of the local fast guy A rider.

Fat Fingers
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Fat Fingers 3/12/2010 2:27am
3/12/2010 2:27am
The system in the US is far to confusing.

Here in NZ, we have local guys who are fast. They can go and race NZ nationals. The guys who do well in the nationals then have the option of going overseas.

When those guys go overseas, they seem to do quite well against pro riders from other countries. You might have heard of some of those riders, Townley, Cooper, Coppins, Columb. Would these fast local pro's beat a C rider from LL?

LL should move to NZ, it would be much simpler.
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davis224 3/12/2010 5:46am
3/12/2010 5:46am
by "local pro" I'm pretty sure he's just saying any A rider. A sandbagging primadonna spoiled brat kid who can get top 5 at LLs in C class could probably run midpack A class at an average local A class race.
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txmxer 3/12/2010 5:50am
3/12/2010 5:50am
RMZ819 wrote:
The top 10 C riders at LL's would kick the shit out of the local fast guy A rider.

this is correct and the answer to the question.

It sucks, but it's the truth.

And I am 100% on board with calling BS on a C rider national championship. It's dumb. It's ridiculous. It's money.

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Huckster
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Huckster 3/12/2010 5:59am
3/12/2010 5:59am
I dont remember what year it was but one of our local kids, Jamie Lawrence, won a C title at LL. Although he was fast, he was not on the same level as most D34 A riders.
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jmar 3/12/2010 6:00am
3/12/2010 6:00am
loftyair wrote:
No, top C am cannot touch an 'actual' pro. Unless you live in a place where the pros really suck. My local tracks top pros are...
No, top C am cannot touch an 'actual' pro. Unless you live in a place where the pros really suck. My local tracks top pros are top-ten in sx/mx. So the so-so ones are still incredibly fast. The best Am C cannot even come close. Sometimes you'll have a pro that shouldn't be a pro and a C that also shouldn't be a C, then you could compare.
So who are the top ten pros that are at your local track?
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flarider 3/12/2010 6:13am
3/12/2010 6:13am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 9:20pm
Depends on the pro and depends on the C rider


Many many moons ago, on a planet far far away, before MX Sports implemented some of its present C class rules, I know of, for a fact, riders who raced the "money class" (never called the "pro class") at certain track(s) but then raced C class at LL's, finishing top 5 and even getting a moto win.


It's hard for that to happen today with the interweb and all.


Do I think that some LL's C class winner, who lives in say Florida, Arizona, Texas or at MTF/GPF in Georgia where they can ride almost year around, can beat a local pro from some other area?

Yeah, I think we can find a local pro that can be easily beat by a LL's C class winner


BTW, a little LL's C Class trivia....only one rider has won a C class title at LL's and gone on to win another title, name the rider....
SlowOldGuy 3/12/2010 6:21am
3/12/2010 6:21am
RMZ819 wrote:
The top 10 C riders at LL's would kick the shit out of the local fast guy A rider.

The 10th place C riders at LLs are about 20 to 30 seconds a lap off the top A and B riders. We have a local kid here who won the 250C class at LLs a couple of years ago and he never even got close to the front of the local A class.
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flarider 3/12/2010 6:24am
3/12/2010 6:24am
oldschoolmxr203 wrote:
Jeremy Mcgrath, won the 1987 125 c class at LL
and he won a few titles after lol
OK, smarty pants.....another LL's title
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JOHN CHOATE 3/12/2010 6:25am
3/12/2010 6:25am
For the past several years at Loretta's, a B rider has had the fastest lap time of the entire week(according to the announcers).

The difference between C and especially the B and A classes at the larger amateur events has been blurred to the point I can't hardly tell who is who. I feel the contingency programs may be partially to blame.
SlowOldGuy 3/12/2010 6:27am
3/12/2010 6:27am
flarider wrote:
Depends on the pro and depends on the C rider Many many moons ago, on a planet far far away, before MX Sports implemented some of...
Depends on the pro and depends on the C rider


Many many moons ago, on a planet far far away, before MX Sports implemented some of its present C class rules, I know of, for a fact, riders who raced the "money class" (never called the "pro class") at certain track(s) but then raced C class at LL's, finishing top 5 and even getting a moto win.


It's hard for that to happen today with the interweb and all.


Do I think that some LL's C class winner, who lives in say Florida, Arizona, Texas or at MTF/GPF in Georgia where they can ride almost year around, can beat a local pro from some other area?

Yeah, I think we can find a local pro that can be easily beat by a LL's C class winner


BTW, a little LL's C Class trivia....only one rider has won a C class title at LL's and gone on to win another title, name the rider....
That ride has ever come back and won an A class title is Floridas own, Shaun Skinner winning C and B class titles at the Ranch. There was one other. A guy won a C class title in the 80s and then won a vet class title years later.

I agree there are a few sandbaggers in the c class. The AMA is working on and improving advancement rules each year.

No rider who has ever won a C class title at LLs has ever won an A class title there and only two C class winners have ever won another title at all so apparantly they are not that damn good.
oldschoolmxr203 3/12/2010 6:27am
3/12/2010 6:27am
oldschoolmxr203 wrote:
Jeremy Mcgrath, won the 1987 125 c class at LL
and he won a few titles after lol
flarider wrote:
OK, smarty pants.....another LL's title
only rider i can think of would be....
Greg Scnell,
not sure on the spelling, pretty sure he won an A class later?
ArkMxDad
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ArkMxDad 3/12/2010 6:33am
3/12/2010 6:33am
Jimmy Albertson won the C class at the ranch I think in 2000.
SlowOldGuy 3/12/2010 6:34am
3/12/2010 6:34am
JOHN CHOATE wrote:
For the past several years at Loretta's, a B rider has had the fastest lap time of the entire week(according to the announcers). The difference between...
For the past several years at Loretta's, a B rider has had the fastest lap time of the entire week(according to the announcers).

The difference between C and especially the B and A classes at the larger amateur events has been blurred to the point I can't hardly tell who is who. I feel the contingency programs may be partially to blame.
The C class riders are about 15 seconds a lap slower than the A class. There is always a couple of superstar B riders with great laptimes, but the times show that outside of these few guys, the A class is consistently faster.

The rules say you can't be moved up to A class until your 16 year old year so there are a lot of AMA 15 year olds (16) riding B class.

At LLs the top 10 in the 250 A class averaged laptimes from 2:01 to 2:08. The B class average was 2:02 to 2:11 so while the top B riders are on par with the a class once you get out of the top 5 the A class is about 3 seconds a lap faster.

The 250 C top 10 averaged 2:14 to about 2:20 which is quite a bit slower than the A or B class.
SlowOldGuy 3/12/2010 6:36am
3/12/2010 6:36am
ArkMxDad wrote:
Jimmy Albertson won the C class at the ranch I think in 2000.
Jimmy won the 125C in 2002 and never won again at LLs. Jimmy blossomed late but is enjoying great success now.

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