This Cairoli versus Dungey thing

mxgeoff
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Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 8:53am
I don't want to be disrespecful to anyone, and while it's obvious that Ryan Dungey is a great guy and rider I don't think it's really a good judge to compare his results this year to other greats in years gone past.



I mean in second and third in the AMA Championship came Brett Metcalfe and Andrew Short, two really great guys and good riders, but.....how many Motocross overalls/races have these two won between them. Maybe one, or two in their whole career? Ben Townley was coming back from two years out and was clearly wanting it too much and making mistakes. and Alessi had the worst season of his career.



Give Cairoli credit, he beat the AMA Motocross Champion of 2009 at last years des Nations, won a moto on the 250cc machine in 2006 and is riding better than ever this year. He also beat former World Champions Philippaerts and Ramon.The riders Cairoli beat have probably 30 GP wins between them.



In my opinion the GP guys have improved more than the AMA guys and I can't wait for next weekend to see what the results will be. We might just be in for the shock of the decade as the GP riders dominate the motos.



Either way both Cairoli and Dungey deserve all the respect of the public, both are great champions. As are Musquin and Canard.



Geoff
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Spinner
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9/17/2010 11:31pm
Remind us, how did Cairoli do at Budds Creek?
mxgeoff
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9/17/2010 11:36pm
Spinner wrote:
Remind us, how did Cairoli do at Budds Creek?
He did crap, no doubt about it.

You might be able to help me, but how many overall wins in the 450cc class from the top ten riders in the 450cc class. Dungey obviously has a lot from this year, but after him it's pretty thin pickings I think. Short might have a couple, Alessi might have two or three, then thats about it or not.

Geoff
Rewindcaz
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9/17/2010 11:43pm
Dungey may not have had the best competition, but that doesn't say anything. He looked hardly challenged and pretty much won this championship with ease. Stewart? Smoked him at Unadilla. Villopoto? Had him covered in Supercross. That right there is two names that would walk around GP riders all day.

Oh yeah, and how badly did AC smoke Reed last year at MXoN? It was a close race between those two. Guess how close the racing was between Reed & Dungey this year? Oh yeah that's right... Dungey never saw Reed. Dungey beat him every race of the Nationals with ease.

Dungey is the real deal and I don't think AC is even close to his level.

I have a feeling the MXoN is going to be a sad day for a lot of the GP fans. Wink
mxgeoff
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9/17/2010 11:46pm
Rewindcaz wrote:
Dungey may not have had the best competition, but that doesn't say anything. He looked hardly challenged and pretty much won this championship with ease. Stewart...
Dungey may not have had the best competition, but that doesn't say anything. He looked hardly challenged and pretty much won this championship with ease. Stewart? Smoked him at Unadilla. Villopoto? Had him covered in Supercross. That right there is two names that would walk around GP riders all day.

Oh yeah, and how badly did AC smoke Reed last year at MXoN? It was a close race between those two. Guess how close the racing was between Reed & Dungey this year? Oh yeah that's right... Dungey never saw Reed. Dungey beat him every race of the Nationals with ease.

Dungey is the real deal and I don't think AC is even close to his level.

I have a feeling the MXoN is going to be a sad day for a lot of the GP fans. Wink
I think both are awesome riders.

The Shop

9/17/2010 11:49pm
Shitting on Dungeys competition won't make Cairoli any faster.

How many Bercy races did Cairoli win?

How many SX races can Cairoli get podiums or top 5's in? And do it vs. Bubba Reed Millsaps Windham Ferry Grant Wey etc

You are talking stupid.

Short is the more complete rider. Will that win him a GP title? Who know's until Short starts racing GP's

But who knows if Cairoli can score as many points as Short has the last few years.

Wins really don't mean shit when you talk about guy's from different series.

And the des Nations won't tell you shit either.



easy_e
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9/17/2010 11:51pm
Rewindcaz wrote:
Dungey may not have had the best competition, but that doesn't say anything. He looked hardly challenged and pretty much won this championship with ease. Stewart...
Dungey may not have had the best competition, but that doesn't say anything. He looked hardly challenged and pretty much won this championship with ease. Stewart? Smoked him at Unadilla. Villopoto? Had him covered in Supercross. That right there is two names that would walk around GP riders all day.

Oh yeah, and how badly did AC smoke Reed last year at MXoN? It was a close race between those two. Guess how close the racing was between Reed & Dungey this year? Oh yeah that's right... Dungey never saw Reed. Dungey beat him every race of the Nationals with ease.

Dungey is the real deal and I don't think AC is even close to his level.

I have a feeling the MXoN is going to be a sad day for a lot of the GP fans. Wink
You sure you have your facts right?? Dungey beat Reedy every race for sure...and Reed dropping out of the nationals because of a stomach issue makes your comparison a bit weak.
mxgeoff
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9/17/2010 11:53pm
Rewindcaz wrote:
Dungey may not have had the best competition, but that doesn't say anything. He looked hardly challenged and pretty much won this championship with ease. Stewart...
Dungey may not have had the best competition, but that doesn't say anything. He looked hardly challenged and pretty much won this championship with ease. Stewart? Smoked him at Unadilla. Villopoto? Had him covered in Supercross. That right there is two names that would walk around GP riders all day.

Oh yeah, and how badly did AC smoke Reed last year at MXoN? It was a close race between those two. Guess how close the racing was between Reed & Dungey this year? Oh yeah that's right... Dungey never saw Reed. Dungey beat him every race of the Nationals with ease.

Dungey is the real deal and I don't think AC is even close to his level.

I have a feeling the MXoN is going to be a sad day for a lot of the GP fans. Wink
easy_e wrote:
You sure you have your facts right?? Dungey beat Reedy every race for sure...and Reed dropping out of the nationals because of a stomach issue makes...
You sure you have your facts right?? Dungey beat Reedy every race for sure...and Reed dropping out of the nationals because of a stomach issue makes your comparison a bit weak.
Didn't Reed win the first round then he got sick???
9/17/2010 11:54pm
I think it'd going to be EPIC!! and may the fastest man win. and not the stupidest take out most of the big guns in the start straight like last year's moto 3.
FIREfish148
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9/17/2010 11:54pm
Thats what happens when you have the likes of Carmichael, Stewart, Reed, and Villopoto around. As well as having to pass guys like Dungey, K-dub, and a bunch of other super fast guys to even get to them in the first place.
Dungey has been overshadowed by a couple of riders up untill last year. These past couple of years he has obviously found an extra little niche. We'll see whos fastest on the day of the des nations I guess. Although it would be a lot better to see some of the gp riders race a whole series to get an accurate comparison. C'mon atleast a series, then they can go back with or without a championship.
Canard has potential to be even faster than Dungey at times I believe. Actually a lot of the time.
We have yet to see the best of Short also IMO.
GuyB
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9/17/2010 11:57pm Edited Date/Time 9/17/2010 11:58pm
Ah, you couldn't have tossed this in the other thread?

Roger made mention at the awards banquet that the crank in Dungey's bike at Hangtown was different than used previously...and that it wasn't for the better.

I get that you're trying to help out here (I think). But I'm not sure it's helping. Smile
mxgeoff
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9/17/2010 11:59pm
GuyB wrote:
Ah, you couldn't have tossed this in the other thread?Roger made mention at the awards banquet that the crank in Dungey's bike at Hangtown was different...
Ah, you couldn't have tossed this in the other thread?

Roger made mention at the awards banquet that the crank in Dungey's bike at Hangtown was different than used previously...and that it wasn't for the better.

I get that you're trying to help out here (I think). But I'm not sure it's helping. Smile
Whatever happens it's going to be epic. We will all be winners.
easy_e
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9/17/2010 11:59pm
Rewindcaz wrote:
Dungey may not have had the best competition, but that doesn't say anything. He looked hardly challenged and pretty much won this championship with ease. Stewart...
Dungey may not have had the best competition, but that doesn't say anything. He looked hardly challenged and pretty much won this championship with ease. Stewart? Smoked him at Unadilla. Villopoto? Had him covered in Supercross. That right there is two names that would walk around GP riders all day.

Oh yeah, and how badly did AC smoke Reed last year at MXoN? It was a close race between those two. Guess how close the racing was between Reed & Dungey this year? Oh yeah that's right... Dungey never saw Reed. Dungey beat him every race of the Nationals with ease.

Dungey is the real deal and I don't think AC is even close to his level.

I have a feeling the MXoN is going to be a sad day for a lot of the GP fans. Wink
easy_e wrote:
You sure you have your facts right?? Dungey beat Reedy every race for sure...and Reed dropping out of the nationals because of a stomach issue makes...
You sure you have your facts right?? Dungey beat Reedy every race for sure...and Reed dropping out of the nationals because of a stomach issue makes your comparison a bit weak.
mxgeoff wrote:
Didn't Reed win the first round then he got sick???
Yeah i should have made it more obvious that i was mocking the guy...goes off on a rant but doesn't have a clue.
redrider400
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9/18/2010 12:15am
Rewindcaz wrote:
Dungey may not have had the best competition, but that doesn't say anything. He looked hardly challenged and pretty much won this championship with ease. Stewart...
Dungey may not have had the best competition, but that doesn't say anything. He looked hardly challenged and pretty much won this championship with ease. Stewart? Smoked him at Unadilla. Villopoto? Had him covered in Supercross. That right there is two names that would walk around GP riders all day.

Oh yeah, and how badly did AC smoke Reed last year at MXoN? It was a close race between those two. Guess how close the racing was between Reed & Dungey this year? Oh yeah that's right... Dungey never saw Reed. Dungey beat him every race of the Nationals with ease.

Dungey is the real deal and I don't think AC is even close to his level.

I have a feeling the MXoN is going to be a sad day for a lot of the GP fans. Wink
easy_e wrote:
You sure you have your facts right?? Dungey beat Reedy every race for sure...and Reed dropping out of the nationals because of a stomach issue makes...
You sure you have your facts right?? Dungey beat Reedy every race for sure...and Reed dropping out of the nationals because of a stomach issue makes your comparison a bit weak.
mxgeoff wrote:
Didn't Reed win the first round then he got sick???
It all boils down to this. Tell AC to come to America and race. He wont do it because he doesnt want to get his ass handed to him. There are more positives than negative for him to make the move. Think about it, he would have more exposure, more money and more fans. The only reason why he wouldnt do it is because he already know what would happen. Think about all the past GP champions that have came over here. They are all badasses, but found a title in America hard to come by. I would live for AC to come over here and race. Only one condition though, he has to leave his helmet and goggles on for the post race interviews, lol.
9/18/2010 12:17am Edited Date/Time 9/18/2010 12:21am
Rewindcaz wrote:
Dungey may not have had the best competition, but that doesn't say anything. He looked hardly challenged and pretty much won this championship with ease. Stewart...
Dungey may not have had the best competition, but that doesn't say anything. He looked hardly challenged and pretty much won this championship with ease. Stewart? Smoked him at Unadilla. Villopoto? Had him covered in Supercross. That right there is two names that would walk around GP riders all day.

Oh yeah, and how badly did AC smoke Reed last year at MXoN? It was a close race between those two. Guess how close the racing was between Reed & Dungey this year? Oh yeah that's right... Dungey never saw Reed. Dungey beat him every race of the Nationals with ease.

Dungey is the real deal and I don't think AC is even close to his level.

I have a feeling the MXoN is going to be a sad day for a lot of the GP fans. Wink
And how much faster was Dungey against Reed at the 2009 MXDN? AC and CR dropped him.

An on form 2009 Reed for Cairoli vs a VERY off form 2010 Reed for Dungey.

This is the problem with comparing riders through guaging what they've accomplished against other riders, at different times, different days, tracks and years.

I have no doubt that Dungey is light years faster than he was in 2009 but he has never beaten Cairoli on pure SPEED. Antonio hasn't been sitting around twiddlerling his thumbs this past year either. He's faster than he was on the Yamaha.
web mx
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9/18/2010 12:20am
Spinner wrote:
Remind us, how did Cairoli do at Budds Creek?
mxgeoff wrote:
He did crap, no doubt about it. You might be able to help me, but how many overall wins in the 450cc class from the top...
He did crap, no doubt about it.

You might be able to help me, but how many overall wins in the 450cc class from the top ten riders in the 450cc class. Dungey obviously has a lot from this year, but after him it's pretty thin pickings I think. Short might have a couple, Alessi might have two or three, then thats about it or not.

Geoff
there would be a lot more different winners or current racers with more wins if it hadn't been for that little redhead and black guy from florida.........think about it,from 2000-2008 most [ 90%] of the 250/450/motocross class whatever you want to call it nationals were won by these 2 riders....thats how dominant they were...... Now do the same thing/same years for 250/mx1 and outside of everts there were a lot of different winners... Damn Carmichael and Stewart for being so fast !!!!!!!Tongue
the_wood109
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9/18/2010 12:23am Edited Date/Time 9/18/2010 12:25am
I just hope that TC can get a start on that 350....then we'll see (at least for a day)

It's on if they start 1-2
9/18/2010 12:29am Edited Date/Time 9/18/2010 12:31am
easy_e wrote:
You sure you have your facts right?? Dungey beat Reedy every race for sure...and Reed dropping out of the nationals because of a stomach issue makes...
You sure you have your facts right?? Dungey beat Reedy every race for sure...and Reed dropping out of the nationals because of a stomach issue makes your comparison a bit weak.
mxgeoff wrote:
Didn't Reed win the first round then he got sick???
It all boils down to this. Tell AC to come to America and race. He wont do it because he doesnt want to get his ass...
It all boils down to this. Tell AC to come to America and race. He wont do it because he doesnt want to get his ass handed to him. There are more positives than negative for him to make the move. Think about it, he would have more exposure, more money and more fans. The only reason why he wouldnt do it is because he already know what would happen. Think about all the past GP champions that have came over here. They are all badasses, but found a title in America hard to come by. I would live for AC to come over here and race. Only one condition though, he has to leave his helmet and goggles on for the post race interviews, lol.
Very few past GP champions have made the move to America in recent years. It really isn't that many. But for the ones that have, they've mostly done very well. Admittedly Searle showed flashes of brilliance but never got to grips with the AMA riders. However Pourcel, Townley, Langston all won titles very quickly and Tyla looks good to do so next year. Not to mention the very successful "one off" appearances from Desalle.

As for Cairoli not going to America..... well, not everyone chases the money. Antonio LOVES the european lifestyle with a passion. Anything that speculates what's going on in someone elses mind is purely that, speculation.
ando
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9/18/2010 12:39am
It all boils down to this. Tell AC to come to America and race. He wont do it because he doesnt want to get his ass...
It all boils down to this. Tell AC to come to America and race. He wont do it because he doesnt want to get his ass handed to him. There are more positives than negative for him to make the move. Think about it, he would have more exposure, more money and more fans. The only reason why he wouldnt do it is because he already know what would happen. Think about all the past GP champions that have came over here. They are all badasses, but found a title in America hard to come by. I would live for AC to come over here and race. Only one condition though, he has to leave his helmet and goggles on for the post race interviews, lol.
Think about all the past GP champions that have came over here. They are all badasses, but found a title in America hard to come by.

Hmmm...

JMB - 3 x AMA titles
Albertyn - AMA MX title
Pichon - 2 x 125SX titles
Langston - 4 x AMA titles
Townley - SX title, nearly beat RV for 250 MX
Pourcel - 2 x SX titles, almost 2 x 250 MX titles

Of course there are others such as Tortelli, Vuillemin, Rattray etc who never won titles but won races and were consistently top 5 guys.
WhKnuckle
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9/18/2010 1:47am
A. You can't judge riders based on one team race per year, and that also means you can't really judge whether RC was a better rider than Everts, for example; and
B. You can't judge riders based on how the do against their competition.

One thing you can judge, though, is the character of riders based on how they run their mouths.
jdbmx
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9/18/2010 2:01am
It all boils down to this. Tell AC to come to America and race. He wont do it because he doesnt want to get his ass...
It all boils down to this. Tell AC to come to America and race. He wont do it because he doesnt want to get his ass handed to him. There are more positives than negative for him to make the move. Think about it, he would have more exposure, more money and more fans. The only reason why he wouldnt do it is because he already know what would happen. Think about all the past GP champions that have came over here. They are all badasses, but found a title in America hard to come by. I would live for AC to come over here and race. Only one condition though, he has to leave his helmet and goggles on for the post race interviews, lol.
More fans or more haters like Pourcel? Why can`t Dungey come to Europe and race? why the other way around or did i forget that for some uneducated Americans the solar system revolves around the US of A.
mrquick
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9/18/2010 2:05am
I'm a huge fan of Canards...heck, i even like dungey. Short,well he may be a nice guy but i really don't think he is on the same level. (fitness and heart).As much as i want our boys to kick some butts and win the MXDN. I say it would be foolish to underestimate Cairoli.The kid is super fast.
jamma10
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9/18/2010 2:15am
WhKnuckle wrote:
A. You can't judge riders based on one team race per year, and that also means you can't really judge whether RC was a better rider...
A. You can't judge riders based on one team race per year, and that also means you can't really judge whether RC was a better rider than Everts, for example; and
B. You can't judge riders based on how the do against their competition.

One thing you can judge, though, is the character of riders based on how they run their mouths.
Cairoli didn't run his mouth, he's Italian who speaks broken English.

I like Dungey, always have. He's a fantastic rider and generally presents himself impeccably, but did you see the Dungey - Lawrence clip in the other thread? If no body ever said a word life would be a pretty boring place.
jamma10
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9/18/2010 2:17am
What's the betting with all this hype surrounding Cairoli vs Dungey, that it's another rider entirely that shines on the day?
mxgeoff
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9/18/2010 2:18am
WhKnuckle wrote:
A. You can't judge riders based on one team race per year, and that also means you can't really judge whether RC was a better rider...
A. You can't judge riders based on one team race per year, and that also means you can't really judge whether RC was a better rider than Everts, for example; and
B. You can't judge riders based on how the do against their competition.

One thing you can judge, though, is the character of riders based on how they run their mouths.
jamma10 wrote:
Cairoli didn't run his mouth, he's Italian who speaks broken English. I like Dungey, always have. He's a fantastic rider and generally presents himself impeccably, but...
Cairoli didn't run his mouth, he's Italian who speaks broken English.

I like Dungey, always have. He's a fantastic rider and generally presents himself impeccably, but did you see the Dungey - Lawrence clip in the other thread? If no body ever said a word life would be a pretty boring place.
Cairoli feels that there are better riders than Dungey, be that MX2 or Lites, or maybe himself. Cairoli didn't say once he was better than Dungey or these other MX2 or Lite riders.

He is allowed an opinion. I don't see the problem with it.

Geoff
WhKnuckle
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9/18/2010 2:21am Edited Date/Time 9/18/2010 2:22am
WhKnuckle wrote:
A. You can't judge riders based on one team race per year, and that also means you can't really judge whether RC was a better rider...
A. You can't judge riders based on one team race per year, and that also means you can't really judge whether RC was a better rider than Everts, for example; and
B. You can't judge riders based on how the do against their competition.

One thing you can judge, though, is the character of riders based on how they run their mouths.
jamma10 wrote:
Cairoli didn't run his mouth, he's Italian who speaks broken English. I like Dungey, always have. He's a fantastic rider and generally presents himself impeccably, but...
Cairoli didn't run his mouth, he's Italian who speaks broken English.

I like Dungey, always have. He's a fantastic rider and generally presents himself impeccably, but did you see the Dungey - Lawrence clip in the other thread? If no body ever said a word life would be a pretty boring place.
It's a little hard to say you were misunderstood when you said flat-out that Europe's MX2 riders could take Dungey. Funny statement too, since last year Dungey beat the former MX2 champ and this year Rattray had a hard time getting on the box for much of the year and never won a moto.

These arguments have no resolution and inevitably devolve into an insult fest. It's too bad Cairoli let his mouth overload his ass.
mxgeoff
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9/18/2010 2:22am
jamma10 wrote:
What's the betting with all this hype surrounding Cairoli vs Dungey, that it's another rider entirely that shines on the day?
Desalle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
kongols
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9/18/2010 2:33am Edited Date/Time 9/18/2010 2:34am
jamma10 wrote:
What's the betting with all this hype surrounding Cairoli vs Dungey, that it's another rider entirely that shines on the day?
Marvin going RV 07-ish on everybody W00t
hammertime
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9/18/2010 2:38am
the best in the us has always been better than the best in poofterville....maybe except at that uphoric matterly basin. rc demolished everts in his prime in everts conditions, o'show on a stock 125 cr demolished thorpe on the most expensive 500 works honda ever made....villy made a joke of all that europe had on a 250f at budds......

people have crapped on dungey all year because bubba, villy ect weren't there....but he was there and took control od the yr from jan to sept like nobody but rc or bubba ever has. he showed, decimated the guys that came. cioroili is awsome, but he's a one dimentional racer. my money is on dungey. he's fit, on the best bike.....and knows how to control motos at the right time.

if dogger could go sleepless and show up with douchebags after practice and beat every legend in eurocross history at once.....a fit, fed and slept dungey should have no sweat taking care of one man with summer teeth!
Rudicross
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9/18/2010 2:51am
Rewindcaz wrote:
Dungey may not have had the best competition, but that doesn't say anything. He looked hardly challenged and pretty much won this championship with ease. Stewart...
Dungey may not have had the best competition, but that doesn't say anything. He looked hardly challenged and pretty much won this championship with ease. Stewart? Smoked him at Unadilla. Villopoto? Had him covered in Supercross. That right there is two names that would walk around GP riders all day.

Oh yeah, and how badly did AC smoke Reed last year at MXoN? It was a close race between those two. Guess how close the racing was between Reed & Dungey this year? Oh yeah that's right... Dungey never saw Reed. Dungey beat him every race of the Nationals with ease.

Dungey is the real deal and I don't think AC is even close to his level.

I have a feeling the MXoN is going to be a sad day for a lot of the GP fans. Wink
People seem to forget AC had a surgery 2 weeks before the 2009 MXoN !
I doubt it would have been such a close race with a 100 % fit Cairoli.

Let Dungey race 1 or 2 years the GP series. Why WE (the Euros) always should cross the pond and race the AMA races ?
bobby397
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9/18/2010 2:53am
mxgeoff wrote:
Cairoli feels that there are better riders than Dungey, be that MX2 or Lites, or maybe himself. Cairoli didn't say once he was better than Dungey...
Cairoli feels that there are better riders than Dungey, be that MX2 or Lites, or maybe himself. Cairoli didn't say once he was better than Dungey or these other MX2 or Lite riders.

He is allowed an opinion. I don't see the problem with it.

Geoff
Is that really his opinion or is it yours? Seems that in the past, most interviews done with gp stars in the past have been filled with BS to discredit the USA series and riders and when the gp riders are confronted about the interviews they say it was made up and they respect each other. Everything you have ever posted on this site has been non stop garbage about how the gps are so much better and how much better the riders are. I have no doubt that gp riders are fast, but you can't compare them to the USA riders as there is no real fair way to do so. And this is my own personal opinion , the world mx series seems to be falling apart. With Marvin coming here in 2011 and roczen and herlings soon to follow(I think even AC even mentioned in your interview that he was interested If that wasn't made up) , to me it seems there isn't anything keeping them where they are and they know that they will still be world superstars racing in the US.

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