The suspension revolution, is it time yet?

newmann
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newmann
Edited Date/Time 1/29/2022 5:33pm


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RPM68
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RPM68 3/12/2015 7:05am
3/12/2015 7:05am
No, Yamaha still has the best stuff and its got ZERO air.
GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 3/12/2015 7:14am
3/12/2015 7:14am
Uncle Tony wrote:
Are those conventional forks?
A little of both.

Newmann, how heavy are those things?
MxKing809
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MxKing809 3/12/2015 7:14am
3/12/2015 7:14am
Wtf is this?!?!? Does it have a chamber on top and bottom?

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Randy Savage
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Randy Savage 3/12/2015 7:40am
3/12/2015 7:40am
What you are looking as is a "full floater" front end. The reason it will never be on a production bike is the increased amount of moving parts. that's whhy they went to air and SFF in the first place. less parts, less production cost. i love the idea, i'd like to have those forks. But Japan doing something like that? HA.
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YZ125H1
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YZ125H1 3/12/2015 7:45am
3/12/2015 7:45am Edited Date/Time 3/12/2015 7:46am
Those look like the conventional forks MC had when he raced for Suzuki minus the fork guards.
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Olson 3/12/2015 7:49am
3/12/2015 7:49am
The middle part locks longer than the bottom part. What happens with the fork guard when you bottom it out? Where do you put the holeshot device? I assume you fasten the fork guards at the top, right under the clamp.
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Olson 3/12/2015 7:52am
3/12/2015 7:52am
YZ125H1 wrote:
Those look like the conventional forks MC had when he raced for Suzuki minus the fork guards.
Not the same, the fork leg goes all the way upp through the clamp.



nytsmaC
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nytsmaC 3/12/2015 7:53am
3/12/2015 7:53am
They look trick as hell.., but twice as many bushing and seals means twice as much stiction. I wonder how well they actually work.
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FWYT 3/12/2015 7:56am
3/12/2015 7:56am
Olson wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/03/12/83537/s1200_jeffwilson4.jpg[/img]


Whatever happened to that design? It's been around for a while. Always was curious
to hear how it works.
gt80rider
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gt80rider 3/12/2015 8:24am
3/12/2015 8:24am
I keep waiting for the LCG revolution with much less suspension travel. Corner for the dough, jump for the show, and no need for 12-13" when the top pros are perfectly downsiding everything and their forks don't really move in the whoops the way they are now.
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TX24
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TX24 3/12/2015 8:53am
3/12/2015 8:53am
Is that the same design the guy from San Antonio was working on or just similar?
If I recall his were intended to be very plush on the top.
newmann
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newmann 3/12/2015 8:54am
3/12/2015 8:54am
Uncle Tony wrote:
Are those conventional forks?
GrapeApe wrote:
A little of both.

Newmann, how heavy are those things?
No idea, but I would imagine not much if any heavier than a standard set of inverts. An old Showa design that wasn't followed through with it was picked up on by a guy here in Texas who applied for a patent on the design. I know nothing about suspension but I see the potential for some amazing fork action. People mentioning twice the stiction? SKF's new seals have less than half the stiction of a standard seal don't they? I just figured that a few years had passed and it was time to throw it out again to confuse all the newbies.Laughing

And while all the keyboard suspension techs pick them apart, just remember that some guy who likes moto built these. That in itself multiplies the wow factor.

For those who are concerned about attaching a holeshot device? Well, Tom Benolkin had a holeshot device on his conventional forked 1979 CR125.
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GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 3/12/2015 9:31am
3/12/2015 9:31am
Uncle Tony wrote:
Are those conventional forks?
GrapeApe wrote:
A little of both.

Newmann, how heavy are those things?
newmann wrote:
No idea, but I would imagine not much if any heavier than a standard set of inverts. An old Showa design that wasn't followed through with...
No idea, but I would imagine not much if any heavier than a standard set of inverts. An old Showa design that wasn't followed through with it was picked up on by a guy here in Texas who applied for a patent on the design. I know nothing about suspension but I see the potential for some amazing fork action. People mentioning twice the stiction? SKF's new seals have less than half the stiction of a standard seal don't they? I just figured that a few years had passed and it was time to throw it out again to confuse all the newbies.Laughing

And while all the keyboard suspension techs pick them apart, just remember that some guy who likes moto built these. That in itself multiplies the wow factor.

For those who are concerned about attaching a holeshot device? Well, Tom Benolkin had a holeshot device on his conventional forked 1979 CR125.
I definitely see the potential in the design, I bet they're plush. It just seems like there would be twice as many internal parts thus more weight, at a time when the OEM's are putting their bikes on a diet. You know, springs "made" of air and stuff.
mnomis484
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mnomis484 3/12/2015 9:33am
3/12/2015 9:33am
They look trick!

But i believe it wouldnt be twice the stiction, the stiction would be as much as the seal with less stiction has (on the same side), if that makes any sense Smile
nytsmaC
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nytsmaC 3/12/2015 9:37am
3/12/2015 9:37am
mnomis484 wrote:
They look trick! But i believe it wouldnt be twice the stiction, the stiction would be as much as the seal with less stiction has (on...
They look trick!

But i believe it wouldnt be twice the stiction, the stiction would be as much as the seal with less stiction has (on the same side), if that makes any sense Smile
Touche, good point.

They're definitely some of the nicest looking forks I've ever seen. Has he made any progress with them? I remember the pic that Olson posted has been floating around for a long time.

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Wasatch Rider 3/12/2015 9:38am
3/12/2015 9:38am
Race Tech has a conversion to change air forks back to spring.

Air forks are a fuckin headache if you just want to load up and go ride.
Or just grab the bike and hit the trails behind the house.
Out here we have a long thermometer and the forks havea different pressure from morning till night.

The effect is way worse than what the tires change.
Crisp BRAAAP! 3/12/2015 9:42am
3/12/2015 9:42am
And while OEMs might not be eager to bolt them on, they might make nice aftermarket candy for those with big pockets.
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newmann
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newmann 3/12/2015 10:26am
3/12/2015 10:26am
Wasatch Rider wrote:
Race Tech has a conversion to change air forks back to spring. Air forks are a fuckin headache if you just want to load up and...
Race Tech has a conversion to change air forks back to spring.

Air forks are a fuckin headache if you just want to load up and go ride.
Or just grab the bike and hit the trails behind the house.
Out here we have a long thermometer and the forks havea different pressure from morning till night.

The effect is way worse than what the tires change.
The problem with air forks is that no one is running the required 20 inch front tire.






Wink
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gjbruny
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gjbruny 3/12/2015 10:38am
3/12/2015 10:38am
what about the issue with sprung and unsprung weight. thought that was one of the main issues on why conventional forks went away?.... that and a more accurate steering feel.
moto0852
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moto0852 3/12/2015 10:44am
3/12/2015 10:44am
Not to hijack the OP but I wonder what the AMA will do with min. weight req. when (not if) KTM puts both the air forks and shocks into production. Whether we like air or not the lower cost to produce, lower weight, less maintenance means there here to stay.

Just guessing but I assume the forks and shock each save about 4 lbs. so 8 lbs. total weight loss and there already at the weight limit.
ChrisB10
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ChrisB10 3/12/2015 10:51am
3/12/2015 10:51am
RPM68 wrote:
No, Yamaha still has the best stuff and its got ZERO air.
Bingo. KYB spring > everything else
moremoremore 3/12/2015 10:51am
3/12/2015 10:51am
newmann wrote:
No idea, but I would imagine not much if any heavier than a standard set of inverts. An old Showa design that wasn't followed through with...
No idea, but I would imagine not much if any heavier than a standard set of inverts. An old Showa design that wasn't followed through with it was picked up on by a guy here in Texas who applied for a patent on the design. I know nothing about suspension but I see the potential for some amazing fork action. People mentioning twice the stiction? SKF's new seals have less than half the stiction of a standard seal don't they? I just figured that a few years had passed and it was time to throw it out again to confuse all the newbies.Laughing

And while all the keyboard suspension techs pick them apart, just remember that some guy who likes moto built these. That in itself multiplies the wow factor.

For those who are concerned about attaching a holeshot device? Well, Tom Benolkin had a holeshot device on his conventional forked 1979 CR125.
okay wheres the pic of those 79 holeshot forks?
newmann
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newmann 3/12/2015 11:16am
3/12/2015 11:16am
Tom Benolkins brother Steve was a bit of a mad scientist back in the day. Still is from what I hear. He made Toms bikes fast enough to catch Hondas attention!

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Forty 3/12/2015 12:46pm
3/12/2015 12:46pm
newmann wrote:
Tom Benolkins brother Steve was a bit of a mad scientist back in the day. Still is from what I hear. He made Toms bikes fast...
Tom Benolkins brother Steve was a bit of a mad scientist back in the day. Still is from what I hear. He made Toms bikes fast enough to catch Hondas attention!

Love the 70's for that reason alone.....Everyone was banging out parts in their garage, cutting shit off, welding shit on.

People were thinking.
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mxrose3
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mxrose3 3/12/2015 1:49pm
3/12/2015 1:49pm
I still think this design needs some more thought:

Forty
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Forty 3/12/2015 1:55pm
3/12/2015 1:55pm
newmann wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/03/12/83520/s1200_jeff_wilson_2.jpg[/img]


Concept is very cool, working it from both ends, Full Floater for the fork. Any specs on the internals? Does the upper work the heavy stuff and the lower handle the small chop?
kiwifan
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kiwifan 3/12/2015 1:58pm
3/12/2015 1:58pm
Very trick, expensive to make though I suspect....two sets of seals per leg as well, be cool with yellow forks boots too lol

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