The "more dirt" thing

Xracer
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Xracer
So I keep hearing Matthes talk about how dirt is the most expensive part of a supercross and how they need to buy more dirt. I agree, but I don't understand the issue with the cost...dirt isn't a depreciating commodity. It's not less valuable after dirt bikes rode on it for a few hours. They can buy it for x and then sell it for that same x, so who cares what it costs? They don't truck the dirt around the country, so there's not transportation costs of extra dirt other than to and from the stadium from the storage location. And it's not like they need 100% more dirt...wouldn't 3 or 4 more truckloads be all it takes to make the tracks be able to hold up to the few extra laps? What am I missing?
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twnorton
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twnorton 2/24/2017 6:22am
2/24/2017 6:22am Edited Date/Time 2/24/2017 6:23am
I think you underestimate how little 3-4 truckloads is in the big picture. probably would need 20+ loads
JW381
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JW381 2/24/2017 6:30am
2/24/2017 6:30am
twnorton wrote:
I think you underestimate how little 3-4 truckloads is in the big picture. probably would need 20+ loads
If not more.
Paw Paw 271
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Paw Paw 271 2/24/2017 6:35am
2/24/2017 6:35am
Most SX tracks are built using the same dirt year after year, as it is stored at each location.
I do agree that a lot of the tracks need more dirt and or better lay outs to keep them from becoming one lined.

Paw PAw
davistld01
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davistld01 2/24/2017 6:40am
2/24/2017 6:40am
When you have plywood or concrete showing after the first heat...there is a problem.

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DA498
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DA498 2/24/2017 6:57am
2/24/2017 6:57am
They would have to lower the purse to pay for the dirt!
davistld01
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davistld01 2/24/2017 7:26am
2/24/2017 7:26am
DA498 wrote:
They would have to lower the purse to pay for the dirt!
God forbid!!
Crisp BRAAAP! 2/24/2017 7:33am
2/24/2017 7:33am
They would have to buy it and then store it: it might be that the storage is even more expensive, since it sits around all year until Monster Jam/SX comes back. Because it's recycled every year, they can't immediately recoup the cost, and the cost of year round storage might go up if their current place is at capacity.

Having said that, I am sure they could find it in their pockets, and they should increase purses while they're at it. I don't want to make excuses for them, but these are the facts as I understand them.
hvaughn88
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hvaughn88 2/24/2017 7:39am
2/24/2017 7:39am
I honestly don't want to hear any excuses regarding the cost of dirt. This is DIRT BIKE racing. If the cost of dirt is too much, then there's a problem.
DoctorJD
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DoctorJD 2/24/2017 7:44am
2/24/2017 7:44am
I know a little place where there's an unlimited amount of dirt. It's called the outdoors.
TannerMxer
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TannerMxer 2/24/2017 8:05am
2/24/2017 8:05am
twnorton wrote:
I think you underestimate how little 3-4 truckloads is in the big picture. probably would need 20+ loads
Doesn't the entire track have 500 truckloads? I feel like that was the number I had seen in the past. So I would think to make a significant difference, they would need another 50+ truckloads of dirt.
Adam43
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Adam43 2/24/2017 8:39am
2/24/2017 8:39am
twnorton wrote:
I think you underestimate how little 3-4 truckloads is in the big picture. probably would need 20+ loads
Not to mention the extra time on both sides of the build. The stadiums want this shit cleaned up asap.

Part of why SX gets a warm welcome year after year is very good logistics. No one is in a hurry to add complications.
Bfogg217
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Bfogg217 2/24/2017 8:42am
2/24/2017 8:42am
We have to keep in mind that they aren't just buying 20,30,40+ loads of dirt once. They're buying it 15-16 times depending on how many repeat rounds there are. Even at 20 loads per round, your looking at 300-400 total, or essentially enough dirt to pretty much build an entire track the way they do now. I agree we need more dirt/better layouts, but it's not a chump change thing. Yea Feld makes plenty of money I'm sure, but we don't really know their profits. Quality of dirt is a huge factor also.
IWreckALot
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IWreckALot 2/24/2017 8:52am
2/24/2017 8:52am
twnorton wrote:
I think you underestimate how little 3-4 truckloads is in the big picture. probably would need 20+ loads
TannerMxer wrote:
Doesn't the entire track have 500 truckloads? I feel like that was the number I had seen in the past. So I would think to make...
Doesn't the entire track have 500 truckloads? I feel like that was the number I had seen in the past. So I would think to make a significant difference, they would need another 50+ truckloads of dirt.
That was my immediate thought also, but the track only gets down to the plywood in two or three places. I think 2 or 3 loads might be enough to prevent the track from getting to the plywood in those few spots. It may be difficult predicting where it will get down to the base though.
IWreckALot
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IWreckALot 2/24/2017 8:57am
2/24/2017 8:57am
Bfogg217 wrote:
We have to keep in mind that they aren't just buying 20,30,40+ loads of dirt once. They're buying it 15-16 times depending on how many repeat...
We have to keep in mind that they aren't just buying 20,30,40+ loads of dirt once. They're buying it 15-16 times depending on how many repeat rounds there are. Even at 20 loads per round, your looking at 300-400 total, or essentially enough dirt to pretty much build an entire track the way they do now. I agree we need more dirt/better layouts, but it's not a chump change thing. Yea Feld makes plenty of money I'm sure, but we don't really know their profits. Quality of dirt is a huge factor also.
I'm not sure every round needs more dirt. It's the tracks that have short lap times that seem to be the problem the most. Dirt can be purchased for let's just say $10 a yard and delivered 80 yards at a time. Delivery charges are usually $100 locally. That's $900 per truck load and even say they need 10 loads, which I think would help the problem a good bit, $9,000 per location isn't THAT much money to spend.
davistld01
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davistld01 2/24/2017 9:31am
2/24/2017 9:31am
twnorton wrote:
I think you underestimate how little 3-4 truckloads is in the big picture. probably would need 20+ loads
TannerMxer wrote:
Doesn't the entire track have 500 truckloads? I feel like that was the number I had seen in the past. So I would think to make...
Doesn't the entire track have 500 truckloads? I feel like that was the number I had seen in the past. So I would think to make a significant difference, they would need another 50+ truckloads of dirt.
IWreckALot wrote:
That was my immediate thought also, but the track only gets down to the plywood in two or three places. I think 2 or 3 loads...
That was my immediate thought also, but the track only gets down to the plywood in two or three places. I think 2 or 3 loads might be enough to prevent the track from getting to the plywood in those few spots. It may be difficult predicting where it will get down to the base though.
I agree that the builders would have a tough time predicting where the dirt will get thin. Maybe that's where the builders could enlist/hire retired pros like maybe Windham, RC or even Poto to ride the track prior to the final OK and give them their opinions on where an extra 50-loads might be needed. That might not be cost-effective, but seems like a realistic thing to do.

What was the company that Mark Barnett owned? Seems like if anybody had an idea where extra dirt depth was needed it would be a guy who's been there and done that.
JustMX
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JustMX 2/24/2017 10:12am
2/24/2017 10:12am
Rich Winkler has been doing the tracks over 25 years.

I doubt not knowing where the dirt is thin is the problem.
resetjet
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resetjet 2/24/2017 10:22am
2/24/2017 10:22am
Umm, dirt is cheap. Excavating it and hauling is the cost.

My question is why dont the use dirt saving devices like a pipe at the bottom of the bigger jumps. There could be a variety of ways to stretch the dirt such as containment walls, buried objects, layouts that could save dirt, etc.

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early
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early 2/24/2017 10:27am
2/24/2017 10:27am
Could they make the over under bridge adjustable to only half height to make a raised corner or something like that?
OUMX117
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OUMX117 2/24/2017 10:32am
2/24/2017 10:32am
Bfogg217 wrote:
We have to keep in mind that they aren't just buying 20,30,40+ loads of dirt once. They're buying it 15-16 times depending on how many repeat...
We have to keep in mind that they aren't just buying 20,30,40+ loads of dirt once. They're buying it 15-16 times depending on how many repeat rounds there are. Even at 20 loads per round, your looking at 300-400 total, or essentially enough dirt to pretty much build an entire track the way they do now. I agree we need more dirt/better layouts, but it's not a chump change thing. Yea Feld makes plenty of money I'm sure, but we don't really know their profits. Quality of dirt is a huge factor also.
IWreckALot wrote:
I'm not sure every round needs more dirt. It's the tracks that have short lap times that seem to be the problem the most. Dirt can...
I'm not sure every round needs more dirt. It's the tracks that have short lap times that seem to be the problem the most. Dirt can be purchased for let's just say $10 a yard and delivered 80 yards at a time. Delivery charges are usually $100 locally. That's $900 per truck load and even say they need 10 loads, which I think would help the problem a good bit, $9,000 per location isn't THAT much money to spend.
80 cubic yards of dirt cannot be delivered for $100..... That's roughly 160,000lbs
akillerwombat
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akillerwombat 2/24/2017 10:43am
2/24/2017 10:43am
It would be interesting to hear from the dirtwurx crew about this.
tcallahan707
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tcallahan707 2/24/2017 10:57am
2/24/2017 10:57am
Here's a thought. 200cc and 350cc bikes. Less torque, less chewed up tracks, less injuries, more exciting racing. It's a joke that the 250's do 99% of the exact same obstacles as the 450's.
NATEP231
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NATEP231 2/24/2017 11:02am
2/24/2017 11:02am Edited Date/Time 2/24/2017 11:02am
They could take the dirt out of the table tops that are called "quads" to some people and place that in other areas. Or maybe make big doubles instead of mandatory 2 triples
DrinkMoreWater 2/24/2017 11:18am
2/24/2017 11:18am
If someone gets injured by the exposed concrete/plywood they will either have to get their shit together or they will revert back to 15/20 laps, the extra laps are causing this however they need to be smarter about it.
TannerMxer
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TannerMxer 2/24/2017 11:23am
2/24/2017 11:23am
twnorton wrote:
I think you underestimate how little 3-4 truckloads is in the big picture. probably would need 20+ loads
TannerMxer wrote:
Doesn't the entire track have 500 truckloads? I feel like that was the number I had seen in the past. So I would think to make...
Doesn't the entire track have 500 truckloads? I feel like that was the number I had seen in the past. So I would think to make a significant difference, they would need another 50+ truckloads of dirt.
IWreckALot wrote:
That was my immediate thought also, but the track only gets down to the plywood in two or three places. I think 2 or 3 loads...
That was my immediate thought also, but the track only gets down to the plywood in two or three places. I think 2 or 3 loads might be enough to prevent the track from getting to the plywood in those few spots. It may be difficult predicting where it will get down to the base though.
Yeah, you're right. That makes sense.
Hank_Thrill
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Hank_Thrill 2/24/2017 11:31am
2/24/2017 11:31am
tcallahan707 wrote:
Here's a thought. 200cc and 350cc bikes. Less torque, less chewed up tracks, less injuries, more exciting racing. It's a joke that the 250's do 99%...
Here's a thought. 200cc and 350cc bikes. Less torque, less chewed up tracks, less injuries, more exciting racing. It's a joke that the 250's do 99% of the exact same obstacles as the 450's.
Word.

I've read Rich saying the thumpers (more power) do a lot more track damage.
Bfogg217
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Bfogg217 2/24/2017 12:07pm
2/24/2017 12:07pm
tcallahan707 wrote:
Here's a thought. 200cc and 350cc bikes. Less torque, less chewed up tracks, less injuries, more exciting racing. It's a joke that the 250's do 99%...
Here's a thought. 200cc and 350cc bikes. Less torque, less chewed up tracks, less injuries, more exciting racing. It's a joke that the 250's do 99% of the exact same obstacles as the 450's.
Hank_Thrill wrote:
Word.

I've read Rich saying the thumpers (more power) do a lot more track damage.
Good luck convincing anyone in power that this is a good idea. The manufacturers won't race bikes they don't sell and that's the whole point of this sport. There's many more realistic solutions.
Silliker269
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Silliker269 2/24/2017 12:14pm
2/24/2017 12:14pm
It is likely storage costs .. how much to storage 50 extra dump truck loads of dirt somewhere, probably not cheap. They need to open up the fuckin pocket book though for sure
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suprtrukr425 2/24/2017 5:40pm
2/24/2017 5:40pm
IWreckALot wrote:
I'm not sure every round needs more dirt. It's the tracks that have short lap times that seem to be the problem the most. Dirt can...
I'm not sure every round needs more dirt. It's the tracks that have short lap times that seem to be the problem the most. Dirt can be purchased for let's just say $10 a yard and delivered 80 yards at a time. Delivery charges are usually $100 locally. That's $900 per truck load and even say they need 10 loads, which I think would help the problem a good bit, $9,000 per location isn't THAT much money to spend.
Ok, finally found a reason to sign up and post. I used to drive a dump truck, your numbers are pretty far off. First off, depending on the dirt quality, the price can vary drastically. $100 per load for the dirt alone is a good estimate. I would stamp it that Feld is not paying for this dirt to be hauled by the load, they are paying the trucks by the hour. At least $75 an hour per truck. I had a hotel right next to the stadium for East Rutherford last year, and I can tell you they have ALOT of trucks hauling that dirt in/out. Also if you have a picture of a truck that can haul 80 yards of dirt at all, let alone without breaking weight laws, I would love to see it. You might get 20 yards on the larger trucks. In reality 10 more loads would cost almost nothing in perspective to the cost of all the dirt, and make almost no difference. They would need 25-50 more to make the difference they need.

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