The best argument against a chase format.

Mit12
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5/5/2016 4:05pm Edited Date/Time 5/7/2016 11:57pm
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Dezerted
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5/5/2016 4:33pm Edited Date/Time 5/5/2016 4:34pm
No offense, was a great story, but the chase is about the thrill of a championship race and the money that comes with it. The people that run this sport are not content with this sport just being what it is and it will never be more if it continues to be a consistent one man show for the championships.

Like it's been said a hundred times over, the chase may not be the answer. Imo the bikes, tracks etc are the bigger problem but I'm for any change that may create a championship race. I for one am sick of the constant domination year after year by ONE rider. Whether it's McGrath, Carmicheal, Villopoto or Dungey. Just like any other sport there comes a point in time for most fans when they just say fuck it, I'll go when it's here but give up my Saturday afternoon? to watch a fairly predictable outcome!? Forget that, I have shit to do. I'll catch it when I have time. When that starts to happen more and more, our fantastic TV package will soon start to trend back towards the tv package of old.
cwtoyota
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5/5/2016 4:57pm
I read right down to the word church and closed the browser window...
That's an excellent message, an excellent story and I agree in some ways with the message he has in terms of our society.

I don't think the chase has anything to do with making the fragile racers/teams/families/man-friends/etc feel better about themselves. Or make things easier for them in any way. I think it has everything to do with putting asses in seats and eyes on TV screens. The series promoter wants to have a series that seems more exciting than it is so they can sell more tickets, advertising space and TV time.

I am in no way endorsing the chase, but that home-plate article is just not related in any way to this issue.
h&m_cycle
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5/5/2016 5:20pm Edited Date/Time 5/5/2016 5:31pm
Dezerted wrote:
No offense, was a great story, but the chase is about the thrill of a championship race and the money that comes with it. The people...
No offense, was a great story, but the chase is about the thrill of a championship race and the money that comes with it. The people that run this sport are not content with this sport just being what it is and it will never be more if it continues to be a consistent one man show for the championships.

Like it's been said a hundred times over, the chase may not be the answer. Imo the bikes, tracks etc are the bigger problem but I'm for any change that may create a championship race. I for one am sick of the constant domination year after year by ONE rider. Whether it's McGrath, Carmicheal, Villopoto or Dungey. Just like any other sport there comes a point in time for most fans when they just say fuck it, I'll go when it's here but give up my Saturday afternoon? to watch a fairly predictable outcome!? Forget that, I have shit to do. I'll catch it when I have time. When that starts to happen more and more, our fantastic TV package will soon start to trend back towards the tv package of old.
not worth it...
Jimmy_Sloan
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5/5/2016 6:30pm Edited Date/Time 5/5/2016 6:31pm
Dezerted wrote:
No offense, was a great story, but the chase is about the thrill of a championship race and the money that comes with it. The people...
No offense, was a great story, but the chase is about the thrill of a championship race and the money that comes with it. The people that run this sport are not content with this sport just being what it is and it will never be more if it continues to be a consistent one man show for the championships.

Like it's been said a hundred times over, the chase may not be the answer. Imo the bikes, tracks etc are the bigger problem but I'm for any change that may create a championship race. I for one am sick of the constant domination year after year by ONE rider. Whether it's McGrath, Carmicheal, Villopoto or Dungey. Just like any other sport there comes a point in time for most fans when they just say fuck it, I'll go when it's here but give up my Saturday afternoon? to watch a fairly predictable outcome!? Forget that, I have shit to do. I'll catch it when I have time. When that starts to happen more and more, our fantastic TV package will soon start to trend back towards the tv package of old.
The promoters that run supercross do not care about anything other than profit, and that's why things may change to the chase format. They can market the opening rounds of the season, and then market the "chase" for the title. The chase format is bad for numerous reasons:

1) It cheapens the title by allowing those who did not survive to the end through attrition, to have a shot at the title.

2) It takes away points earned.

3) Depending on the way the chase format is structured, it is likely that teams will strategize especially if early wins are not as important, which leads to points 4

4) It takes away from the tradition of the sport and hence interferes with the record books (look what happened to Jeff Gordon in NASCAR).

5) It won't fix a boring race. If the leader is way out front, the chase won't change that.

6) Most fans up to this point have been against the idea of a chase format. Why are the promoters ignoring the fan base?

The Shop

Ted722
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5/5/2016 6:45pm


Does this mean 5 rounds in the Chase?

g0rd057
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5/5/2016 7:29pm Edited Date/Time 5/5/2016 7:30pm
Doesn't everyone here always complain about riders not getting enough money?
Well... Bigger TV packages mean more money and bigger sponsorships for the riders.
akillerwombat
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5/5/2016 7:32pm
g0rd057 wrote:
Doesn't everyone here always complain about riders not getting enough money?
Well... Bigger TV packages mean more money and bigger sponsorships for the riders.
... you'd think more people would realize that.
Mit12
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5/5/2016 7:53pm
cwtoyota wrote:
I read right down to the word church and closed the browser window... That's an excellent message, an excellent story and I agree in some ways...
I read right down to the word church and closed the browser window...
That's an excellent message, an excellent story and I agree in some ways with the message he has in terms of our society.

I don't think the chase has anything to do with making the fragile racers/teams/families/man-friends/etc feel better about themselves. Or make things easier for them in any way. I think it has everything to do with putting asses in seats and eyes on TV screens. The series promoter wants to have a series that seems more exciting than it is so they can sell more tickets, advertising space and TV time.

I am in no way endorsing the chase, but that home-plate article is just not related in any way to this issue.
You got the message I was sending with the link.
Johnny Ringo
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5/5/2016 8:07pm
The promoters that run supercross do not care about anything other than profit, and that's why things may change to the chase format. They can market...
The promoters that run supercross do not care about anything other than profit, and that's why things may change to the chase format. They can market the opening rounds of the season, and then market the "chase" for the title. The chase format is bad for numerous reasons:

1) It cheapens the title by allowing those who did not survive to the end through attrition, to have a shot at the title.

2) It takes away points earned.

3) Depending on the way the chase format is structured, it is likely that teams will strategize especially if early wins are not as important, which leads to points 4

4) It takes away from the tradition of the sport and hence interferes with the record books (look what happened to Jeff Gordon in NASCAR).

5) It won't fix a boring race. If the leader is way out front, the chase won't change that.

6) Most fans up to this point have been against the idea of a chase format. Why are the promoters ignoring the fan base?

Take a knee, Jim. Take a knee.
kkawboy14
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5/5/2016 9:44pm Edited Date/Time 5/5/2016 9:44pm
g0rd057 wrote:
Doesn't everyone here always complain about riders not getting enough money?
Well... Bigger TV packages mean more money and bigger sponsorships for the riders.
... you'd think more people would realize that.
That hasn't been the case so far......"we had to spend all the money to get the big deal, so there isn't anything left for you.....again"
zehn
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5/5/2016 10:04pm
g0rd057 wrote:
Doesn't everyone here always complain about riders not getting enough money?
Well... Bigger TV packages mean more money and bigger sponsorships for the riders.
... you'd think more people would realize that.
You really think the riders would get proportionally more money with a bigger TV package? I mean, yeah, maybe the purse might increase 10% if they're lucky.
zehn
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5/5/2016 10:05pm
The promoters that run supercross do not care about anything other than profit, and that's why things may change to the chase format. They can market...
The promoters that run supercross do not care about anything other than profit, and that's why things may change to the chase format. They can market the opening rounds of the season, and then market the "chase" for the title. The chase format is bad for numerous reasons:

1) It cheapens the title by allowing those who did not survive to the end through attrition, to have a shot at the title.

2) It takes away points earned.

3) Depending on the way the chase format is structured, it is likely that teams will strategize especially if early wins are not as important, which leads to points 4

4) It takes away from the tradition of the sport and hence interferes with the record books (look what happened to Jeff Gordon in NASCAR).

5) It won't fix a boring race. If the leader is way out front, the chase won't change that.

6) Most fans up to this point have been against the idea of a chase format. Why are the promoters ignoring the fan base?

Take a knee, Jim. Take a knee.
You think he's wrong?
dkg
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5/5/2016 10:12pm
g0rd057 wrote:
Doesn't everyone here always complain about riders not getting enough money?
Well... Bigger TV packages mean more money and bigger sponsorships for the riders.
... you'd think more people would realize that.
You stand for the proposition that money justifies everything? Interesting, NASCAR followed that line of thinking too. Now they have a series, chase and championship that that is nonsensical and popularity is at all time lows. Yeah let's copy that. FELD has a few retired elephants, let's bring them to A1 to introduce the chase and call it a circus.
shanes
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5/5/2016 10:14pm
chase format is the dumbest idea in motorsport , anyone that thinks it is a good idea cant be a racer .

no point watching the series anymore if they change to this formate , getting like some schools now they don't have competition in sports anymore because little johnny comes last and it makes him feel bad .

grow a set people a championship is being there at the end to finish first you first have to finish
Hut
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5/5/2016 10:19pm
shanes wrote:
chase format is the dumbest idea in motorsport , anyone that thinks it is a good idea cant be a racer . no point watching the...
chase format is the dumbest idea in motorsport , anyone that thinks it is a good idea cant be a racer .

no point watching the series anymore if they change to this formate , getting like some schools now they don't have competition in sports anymore because little johnny comes last and it makes him feel bad .

grow a set people a championship is being there at the end to finish first you first have to finish
I agree!
KennyT
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5/5/2016 10:42pm
Another Chase post.

So 30-40 people on a message board are against it and 30-40 are for it . Sorry folks but as much as you would like to think our opinions matter it will not sway Feld one way or the other. It is all about putting asses in the seats and eyes on the TV.

Heading into Vegas there is zero interest in the final round unless you are playing fantasy leagues. Everyone is waiting for the Nationals to start.
zehn
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5/5/2016 10:46pm
KennyT wrote:
Another Chase post. So 30-40 people on a message board are against it and 30-40 are for it . Sorry folks but as much as you...
Another Chase post.

So 30-40 people on a message board are against it and 30-40 are for it . Sorry folks but as much as you would like to think our opinions matter it will not sway Feld one way or the other. It is all about putting asses in the seats and eyes on the TV.

Heading into Vegas there is zero interest in the final round unless you are playing fantasy leagues. Everyone is waiting for the Nationals to start.
Then tell the other racers to step their game up. It's not Dungey's fault he had a full race lead like 5 rounds into the championship.

Honestly the whole chase format is a total gimmick and NASCAR has proved that it doesn't work to boost popularity in the long-run.
flamenco
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5/6/2016 12:02am
Re: post by Dezerted and response by Jimmy_Sloan.

Mr. Sloan has addressed very well my problems with the Chase (TM).

I keep reading that people are sick of one-rider domination. I think what people are forgetting is that there are perhaps some seasons of one rider dominating because that is the nature of those individuals to have raised the bar higher than others are able to match. But, the really thrilling seasons happen organically when that rider is on the natural downside of that dominance and someone is able to rise to the challenge to beat him. Example: RC's season of dethroning MC. Remember the frenzy in the crowds? I do. Then, what happened? RC retired still probably in his prime. Then RV came along (minus RDs rookie season) and ran off FOUR in a row, before retiring possibly in his prime (physically). I do NOT begrudge RC or RV from doing so, but the sport never got that great, crazy "handoff" to the new king. And so, the perceived "boredom". Its the nature of individual vs. team sports. Sometimes redemption gets eclipsed by retirement.

Transcendent seasons or riders do not happen by rule manipulation. Not one thing in life comes without some serious bust-ass and no do-overs. That's what makes the rare racers, races, or seasons so special.
5/6/2016 6:32am
g0rd057 wrote:
Doesn't everyone here always complain about riders not getting enough money?
Well... Bigger TV packages mean more money and bigger sponsorships for the riders.
... you'd think more people would realize that.
The old trickle down theory that never works in corporate America. You realize the only sports where the players/teams receive additional income based off of lucrative TV deals are the ones with a player's association/union. That doesn't exist in SX/MX. The rider's would not receive a dime of that money, the purse increase would be minimal to non-existent. This is all for the big wigs up top.
Dezerted
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5/6/2016 7:14am Edited Date/Time 5/6/2016 7:29am
One rider dominance is the norm, that needs to change one way or the other. This bullshit argument of pussyfication is stupid. Roczen works his ass off, Anderson works his ass off. They are not changing it to make it easier because they are complaining. They're trying to figure out a way to curtail the one rider dominance. With multiple people in the hunt deeper in the season it creates more excitement which makes more money which yes that's felds main goal.

I will reiterate that I agree they should be fixing the racing first and foremost because that imo is the biggest problem. If they have a tight points race but each race is still a snooze fest, I'm not sure what that would accomplish

As for point 6) I do not think the majority of the fan base is forward thinking. The majority of the arguments are leave it alone it's not broken. It's broken and is continue to fracture. The fix they are doing with the chase is a unproven surgery but I like the fact they aren't "leaving it alone"
rjw141
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5/6/2016 7:25am
The promoters that run supercross do not care about anything other than profit, and that's why things may change to the chase format. They can market...
The promoters that run supercross do not care about anything other than profit, and that's why things may change to the chase format. They can market the opening rounds of the season, and then market the "chase" for the title. The chase format is bad for numerous reasons:

1) It cheapens the title by allowing those who did not survive to the end through attrition, to have a shot at the title.

2) It takes away points earned.

3) Depending on the way the chase format is structured, it is likely that teams will strategize especially if early wins are not as important, which leads to points 4

4) It takes away from the tradition of the sport and hence interferes with the record books (look what happened to Jeff Gordon in NASCAR).

5) It won't fix a boring race. If the leader is way out front, the chase won't change that.

6) Most fans up to this point have been against the idea of a chase format. Why are the promoters ignoring the fan base?

You are spot on with #5. I feel like that is something everyone is over looking. If the races were more exciting, it wouldn't matter as much about a big points lead. That's why I think a monster cup format would be a Better option than Chase format. More motos , and more race winners. 3 ten lap motos, or 2 fifteen lap motos. Maybe even bracket racing, and points for qualifying/heat races/hole shots.
akillerwombat
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5/6/2016 7:37am
rjw141 wrote:
You are spot on with #5. I feel like that is something everyone is over looking. If the races were more exciting, it wouldn't matter as...
You are spot on with #5. I feel like that is something everyone is over looking. If the races were more exciting, it wouldn't matter as much about a big points lead. That's why I think a monster cup format would be a Better option than Chase format. More motos , and more race winners. 3 ten lap motos, or 2 fifteen lap motos. Maybe even bracket racing, and points for qualifying/heat races/hole shots.
It certainly is poised to make the end of the season races a lot more exciting.
akillerwombat
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5/6/2016 7:42am
zehn wrote:
You really think the riders would get proportionally more money with a bigger TV package? I mean, yeah, [i]maybe[/i] the purse might increase 10% if they're...
You really think the riders would get proportionally more money with a bigger TV package? I mean, yeah, maybe the purse might increase 10% if they're lucky.
I think I read on Vital somewhere that Webb made like $22 - $25,000 in purse money this year (up to race like 5 or 6), do you really think he only makes $25,000 grand a year?

Sponsorships is where the money is at in niche sports. Closer point standings at the ender of the year will result in stronger viewership for the entirety of a season which means more attention for all riders (not just seeing Dungey spots every fucking commercial break), which is better for sponsors, which means more money for riders.

And I'm sure the purse would go up a little I doubt it would be a huge jump – changes like that have to come from the inside. IE, how teams in the NBA protested a couple years ago to get better wages.
akillerwombat
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5/6/2016 7:44am
The old trickle down theory that never works in corporate America. You realize the only sports where the players/teams receive additional income based off of lucrative...
The old trickle down theory that never works in corporate America. You realize the only sports where the players/teams receive additional income based off of lucrative TV deals are the ones with a player's association/union. That doesn't exist in SX/MX. The rider's would not receive a dime of that money, the purse increase would be minimal to non-existent. This is all for the big wigs up top.
See above, while the "lucrative TV deals" might end up having little impact on their per race earnings (they could negotiate for more if they would unify) it will have a dramatic effect on their real source of income: sponsorship.
akillerwombat
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5/6/2016 7:48am
dkg wrote:
You stand for the proposition that money justifies everything? Interesting, NASCAR followed that line of thinking too. Now they have a series, chase and championship that...
You stand for the proposition that money justifies everything? Interesting, NASCAR followed that line of thinking too. Now they have a series, chase and championship that that is nonsensical and popularity is at all time lows. Yeah let's copy that. FELD has a few retired elephants, let's bring them to A1 to introduce the chase and call it a circus.
My dad always told me, "it's better to be unhappy with money than unhappy without it". Does that mean that money justifies everything – no, but it makes shitty situations better.
akillerwombat
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5/6/2016 8:21am
For everyone that is so ANTI-CHASE I highly suggest you look into Street League (Skateboardings Chase style season long tournament) as many in the skate world regard it as the best thing that's happened to skating since the X-Games (but better) which I would argue was one of the best things for our sport as well because it showed the world Travis Pastrana; arguably the best thing to happen to dirt bike related sports since pretty much ever.

Anyhow – back to Street League. Not only is it exciting to see a season evolve and rivalries build throughout the year but skateboarding is bigger than ever (who would have guessed drama was good for sports?), the riders are getting paid WAY MORE than they ever did, and no one bitches when someone like Nyjah Houston, Chaz Ortiz, or Chris Cole walks away with a title (despite having to reset points going into the later stages of the tournament) because unlike everyone here who somehow thinks people will be able to undeservingly "steal the championship" they understand that you don't make it to the end without working your ass off all year long.
Flatliner
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5/6/2016 8:37am
All I know for sure as fact, the chase totally changed nsscar record books.

It cost Jeff Gordon multiple titles.
Dezerted
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5/6/2016 9:07am
The anti chase crowd sound like Southern California newscasters when there's a rain storm in May
Phillip_Lamb
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5/6/2016 9:10am
The point of the article is that its not just about a game, or a race in the case of motocross. It goes beyond, in that it is a problem with our society. And now in sport, where it is based on true competition to see who the best is, the rules have been changed to, Not to give everyone an equal start, but to give everyone an equal ending. Our society has shifted the idea of what FAIR is. fair used to be eveyone line up on the same line and go as fast as you can, now fair is line up wherever you want and finish at the same time.

Sports, which are supposed to be idealistic, honor bound, a pinnacle of human nature, have lost its integrity. Baseball, football, nascar and now motocross, have all lost the integrity of the sport, all that matters is the dollar, and when morals are based on getting another dollar, real integrity is gone, doing the RIGHT thing is NOT OK.

imagine in the coming Olympics, Hussein Bolt running fast and winning, only for them to go "no that run doesnt count you were too good, it didnt make for a good ending...." HOW INSANE.


I DONT WANT "EXCITEMENT" i want INTEGRITY. I WANT HONESTY, I WANT PURITY back in sports. all these "rules" to "level" the playing field. to hell with them.

If chase comes to SX, i will not attend another event, and if ( heaven forbid) it comes to the MX series, I will no longer support those events which i have attended for the last 25 years

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