The GOAT, revisited

RealityCheck
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Edited Date/Time 7/22/2014 4:38am
In his pro career (1997-2007), RC earned 7,988 points
James Stewart (2002-2013), earned 5,127 points
Ryan Dungey (2007-2013), earned 4,811 points
Ryan Villopoto (2007-2013), earned 4,346 points

Source: Racer X Vault

Draw your own conclusions.

On a completely unrelated note, in 1975 Marty Smith earned over twice as many points (1000 vs 457) as the second place finisher (Tim Hart) in the 125 National series. That, folks, is domination. I didn't search the entire vault, but that's going to be a tough record to beat.
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DonM
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7/21/2014 6:27pm
Pretty sure the points structure in 75 was different than the points structure now, I believe they earned more points for a win...40?
7/21/2014 6:32pm Edited Date/Time 7/21/2014 6:33pm
In his pro career (1997-2007), RC earned 7,988 points James Stewart (2002-2013), earned 5,127 points Ryan Dungey (2007-2013), earned 4,811 points Ryan Villopoto (2007-2013), earned 4,346...
In his pro career (1997-2007), RC earned 7,988 points
James Stewart (2002-2013), earned 5,127 points
Ryan Dungey (2007-2013), earned 4,811 points
Ryan Villopoto (2007-2013), earned 4,346 points

Source: Racer X Vault

Draw your own conclusions.

On a completely unrelated note, in 1975 Marty Smith earned over twice as many points (1000 vs 457) as the second place finisher (Tim Hart) in the 125 National series. That, folks, is domination. I didn't search the entire vault, but that's going to be a tough record to beat.
How many did reed get?
motomike137
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7/21/2014 6:39pm
When I cypher out the #'s I come up with this theory... RC=GOAT
bama205
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7/21/2014 6:43pm
WTF does Revisted mean?

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mx317
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7/21/2014 6:45pm Edited Date/Time 7/21/2014 6:46pm
bama205 wrote:
WTF does Revisted mean?
Because it's been talked about 1000+ times on here. Never mind the spelling. LOL
MxKing809
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7/21/2014 6:46pm
Yeah.... I was under the impression you would be debunking the RC=Goat idea with the info..... He's still the man
RealityCheck
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7/21/2014 6:52pm
bama205 wrote:
WTF does Revisted mean?
mx317 wrote:
Because it's been talked about 1000+ times on here. Never mind the spelling. LOL
Typo. Fixed.
RealityCheck
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7/21/2014 6:57pm Edited Date/Time 7/21/2014 7:02pm
MxKing809 wrote:
Yeah.... I was under the impression you would be debunking the RC=Goat idea with the info..... He's still the man
To me, there's never been a question that RC is the GOAT. However, there are folks who emphatically believe RV is the new GOAT, despite compelling evidence to the contrary. I think its reasonable to argue that RV isn't even the SGOAT yet. I was just presenting another data point indicating that RV has a long way to go before he's a threat to RC.
RealityCheck
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7/21/2014 7:00pm
In his pro career (1997-2007), RC earned 7,988 points James Stewart (2002-2013), earned 5,127 points Ryan Dungey (2007-2013), earned 4,811 points Ryan Villopoto (2007-2013), earned 4,346...
In his pro career (1997-2007), RC earned 7,988 points
James Stewart (2002-2013), earned 5,127 points
Ryan Dungey (2007-2013), earned 4,811 points
Ryan Villopoto (2007-2013), earned 4,346 points

Source: Racer X Vault

Draw your own conclusions.

On a completely unrelated note, in 1975 Marty Smith earned over twice as many points (1000 vs 457) as the second place finisher (Tim Hart) in the 125 National series. That, folks, is domination. I didn't search the entire vault, but that's going to be a tough record to beat.
How many did reed get?
Reed, 2002-2013: 6409 points.

Didn't expect that. Clearly, one of the all time greats.
newmann
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7/21/2014 7:18pm
In his pro career (1997-2007), RC earned 7,988 points James Stewart (2002-2013), earned 5,127 points Ryan Dungey (2007-2013), earned 4,811 points Ryan Villopoto (2007-2013), earned 4,346...
In his pro career (1997-2007), RC earned 7,988 points
James Stewart (2002-2013), earned 5,127 points
Ryan Dungey (2007-2013), earned 4,811 points
Ryan Villopoto (2007-2013), earned 4,346 points

Source: Racer X Vault

Draw your own conclusions.

On a completely unrelated note, in 1975 Marty Smith earned over twice as many points (1000 vs 457) as the second place finisher (Tim Hart) in the 125 National series. That, folks, is domination. I didn't search the entire vault, but that's going to be a tough record to beat.
How many did reed get?
Reed, 2002-2013: 6409 points.

Didn't expect that. Clearly, one of the all time greats.
Reed showed what consistency would get you. Dude was on the podium all the time. Stewie, checkers or wreckers.

Remember the magazine ads when RC was killing it on laps led through the season? Second place in laps led was the guy who showed up to one single race. 3 laps led for Doug Henry at Southwick put him in second place. No single rider led more than that throughout the whole damn season. Who knows what year that was? I've slept since then.....lol.
7/21/2014 7:19pm
In his pro career (1997-2007), RC earned 7,988 points James Stewart (2002-2013), earned 5,127 points Ryan Dungey (2007-2013), earned 4,811 points Ryan Villopoto (2007-2013), earned 4,346...
In his pro career (1997-2007), RC earned 7,988 points
James Stewart (2002-2013), earned 5,127 points
Ryan Dungey (2007-2013), earned 4,811 points
Ryan Villopoto (2007-2013), earned 4,346 points

Source: Racer X Vault

Draw your own conclusions.

On a completely unrelated note, in 1975 Marty Smith earned over twice as many points (1000 vs 457) as the second place finisher (Tim Hart) in the 125 National series. That, folks, is domination. I didn't search the entire vault, but that's going to be a tough record to beat.
How many did reed get?
Reed, 2002-2013: 6409 points.

Didn't expect that. Clearly, one of the all time greats.
yeah thats good, cheers
newmann
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7/21/2014 7:19pm
In his pro career (1997-2007), RC earned 7,988 points James Stewart (2002-2013), earned 5,127 points Ryan Dungey (2007-2013), earned 4,811 points Ryan Villopoto (2007-2013), earned 4,346...
In his pro career (1997-2007), RC earned 7,988 points
James Stewart (2002-2013), earned 5,127 points
Ryan Dungey (2007-2013), earned 4,811 points
Ryan Villopoto (2007-2013), earned 4,346 points

Source: Racer X Vault

Draw your own conclusions.

On a completely unrelated note, in 1975 Marty Smith earned over twice as many points (1000 vs 457) as the second place finisher (Tim Hart) in the 125 National series. That, folks, is domination. I didn't search the entire vault, but that's going to be a tough record to beat.
How many did reed get?
Reed, 2002-2013: 6409 points.

Didn't expect that. Clearly, one of the all time greats.
Reed showed what consistency would get you. Dude was on the podium all the time. Stewie, checkers or wreckers.

Remember the magazine ads when RC was killing it on laps led through the season? Second place in laps led was the guy who showed up to one single race. 3 laps led for Doug Henry at Southwick put him in second place. No single rider led more than that throughout the whole damn season. Who knows what year that was? I've slept since then.....lol.
TriRacer27
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7/21/2014 8:21pm
Total career points are not a good measure. Some riders choose to go 100% for a shorter number of years while others are more content going 95% and prolonging their careers.


Either way, I've been wondering this lately. What the heck does RV need to do to become the GOAT? Will he ever be able to do enough to steal that title away from RC?

I got thinking about this after a recent Racer-X profiling the "Kings". It had the Hurricane, The King, The GOAT, and RV. The problem with having the nickname GOAT is that, unlike those other nicknames, it isn't so much a nickname as it is a statement of fact, which at the time and even now is still true. But what happens if RV goes on to win another 3 SX and 3 MX titles? Will he then be considered the GOAT? What will it take? And if not RC, someone eventually will come and challenge RC's numbers.
cody331
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7/21/2014 8:32pm
Slightly unrelated, but didn't Dungey go pro a year after RV?
mmitoptech
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7/21/2014 8:54pm
"Either way, I've been wondering this lately. What the heck does RV need to do to become the GOAT? Will he ever be able to do enough to steal that title away from RC?"

151 wins.
7/21/2014 9:05pm
cody331 wrote:
Slightly unrelated, but didn't Dungey go pro a year after RV?
Yes.

RV was the defending small bore outdoor champion during RD's rookie year in 2007
rcm406
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7/21/2014 9:14pm
mmitoptech wrote:
"Either way, I've been wondering this lately. What the heck does RV need to do to become the GOAT? Will he ever be able to do...
"Either way, I've been wondering this lately. What the heck does RV need to do to become the GOAT? Will he ever be able to do enough to steal that title away from RC?"

151 wins.
RV will need:

79 more winsShocked
7 more c'shipsShocked
3 MX perfect seasonsShocked

To overtake RC!

It ain't happening!Dry
Mr. G
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7/21/2014 10:14pm
Correct me if my stats are wrong but didn't RC win 70 outdoor moto's in a row?
7/21/2014 10:28pm
Mr. G wrote:
Correct me if my stats are wrong but didn't RC win 70 outdoor moto's in a row?
That would mean he had at least two perfect seasons in a row.

Wait...no it wouldn't.

Still sounds unlikely.
visser62
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7/21/2014 10:39pm
Mr. G wrote:
Correct me if my stats are wrong but didn't RC win 70 outdoor moto's in a row?
That would mean he had at least two perfect seasons in a row.

Wait...no it wouldn't.

Still sounds unlikely.
Absolutely not. He did have a good streak going, though. End of '01 to beginning of '03 when Windham ended his streak. But it would take essentially three perfect seasons in a row to reach 70 straight moto wins.
Moto75
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7/21/2014 10:51pm
If you take Dungey's yearly average & make it over the same 10 year span RC had, he would actually be just ahead.
7/21/2014 11:19pm
visser62 wrote:
Absolutely not. He did have a good streak going, though. End of '01 to beginning of '03 when Windham ended his streak. But it would take...
Absolutely not. He did have a good streak going, though. End of '01 to beginning of '03 when Windham ended his streak. But it would take essentially three perfect seasons in a row to reach 70 straight moto wins.
I started thinking, if RC -- very hypothetically, now -- lost a moto at round 1 in '01, and then lost a moto at the last round of '03, that would give him close to 70 wins with only one perfect season between.

But yeah, Windham won a few at the end of '01...
And we know RC didn't go 24-0 in '03...
And Reed won the fifth moto of '05...

so I guess that's that.

As for RV becoming the GOAT: If he 1-1's next year and then wins at least mx in 2016, I think we can talk about it. He's already a better SX rider than RC, imo. So it's either that or THREE more mx titles. He can choose which path to take.

Bonus points if he wins a title in Europe, but Cairoli's not getting any younger!
Matt Fisher
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7/21/2014 11:21pm
Moto75 wrote:
If you take Dungey's yearly average & make it over the same 10 year span RC had, he would actually be just ahead.
Correct. And if if's and butts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.
-Super Hunky, greatest dirtbike magazine editor ever.
chrisbuehler
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7/21/2014 11:24pm
TriRacer27 wrote:
Total career points are not a good measure. Some riders choose to go 100% for a shorter number of years while others are more content going...
Total career points are not a good measure. Some riders choose to go 100% for a shorter number of years while others are more content going 95% and prolonging their careers.


Either way, I've been wondering this lately. What the heck does RV need to do to become the GOAT? Will he ever be able to do enough to steal that title away from RC?

I got thinking about this after a recent Racer-X profiling the "Kings". It had the Hurricane, The King, The GOAT, and RV. The problem with having the nickname GOAT is that, unlike those other nicknames, it isn't so much a nickname as it is a statement of fact, which at the time and even now is still true. But what happens if RV goes on to win another 3 SX and 3 MX titles? Will he then be considered the GOAT? What will it take? And if not RC, someone eventually will come and challenge RC's numbers.
RV has already been injured too much to overtake Ricky. RC never lost an outdoor campaign, 10 straight titles! And you say with quite some certainty someone will challenge his numbers. Highly doubt it, not in the same span of time at least. RC went out still in his absolute prime IMO. He could have easily added another 5-6 titles between SX/ MX and be close to 200 wins. There is and will only be one GOAT. I personally am happy to see multiple winners. Much more interesting.
Moto75
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7/21/2014 11:25pm
Moto75 wrote:
If you take Dungey's yearly average & make it over the same 10 year span RC had, he would actually be just ahead.
Correct. And if if's and butts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.
-Super Hunky, greatest dirtbike magazine editor ever.
So it's Dungey's fault he's not as old as RC... lol. If he was retired, sure, but Dungey's career could easily go another 4 years.
Moto75
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7/21/2014 11:55pm
TriRacer27 wrote:
Total career points are not a good measure. Some riders choose to go 100% for a shorter number of years while others are more content going...
Total career points are not a good measure. Some riders choose to go 100% for a shorter number of years while others are more content going 95% and prolonging their careers.


Either way, I've been wondering this lately. What the heck does RV need to do to become the GOAT? Will he ever be able to do enough to steal that title away from RC?

I got thinking about this after a recent Racer-X profiling the "Kings". It had the Hurricane, The King, The GOAT, and RV. The problem with having the nickname GOAT is that, unlike those other nicknames, it isn't so much a nickname as it is a statement of fact, which at the time and even now is still true. But what happens if RV goes on to win another 3 SX and 3 MX titles? Will he then be considered the GOAT? What will it take? And if not RC, someone eventually will come and challenge RC's numbers.
RV has already been injured too much to overtake Ricky. RC never lost an outdoor campaign, 10 straight titles! And you say with quite some certainty...
RV has already been injured too much to overtake Ricky. RC never lost an outdoor campaign, 10 straight titles! And you say with quite some certainty someone will challenge his numbers. Highly doubt it, not in the same span of time at least. RC went out still in his absolute prime IMO. He could have easily added another 5-6 titles between SX/ MX and be close to 200 wins. There is and will only be one GOAT. I personally am happy to see multiple winners. Much more interesting.
lol....

Ever heard the saying "records are meant to be broken"? Fact is, it's rarely apples to apples. Promoters are always trying to squeeze in more races every year. An interesting statistic to compare with this, what was the average number of races run per year when RC was racing. Then run that same average for the above riders, it would help put his accomplishments in perspective. While RC was an incredible rider, it's a far fetch to say that he will never be matched again.
7/22/2014 12:11am
In his pro career (1997-2007), RC earned 7,988 points James Stewart (2002-2013), earned 5,127 points Ryan Dungey (2007-2013), earned 4,811 points Ryan Villopoto (2007-2013), earned 4,346...
In his pro career (1997-2007), RC earned 7,988 points
James Stewart (2002-2013), earned 5,127 points
Ryan Dungey (2007-2013), earned 4,811 points
Ryan Villopoto (2007-2013), earned 4,346 points

Source: Racer X Vault

Draw your own conclusions.

On a completely unrelated note, in 1975 Marty Smith earned over twice as many points (1000 vs 457) as the second place finisher (Tim Hart) in the 125 National series. That, folks, is domination. I didn't search the entire vault, but that's going to be a tough record to beat.
My conclusion is that Ricky is and will be the GOAT forever. The end. Good night.

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