The First turn.....WTF

Fred Boss Mx Dion
Edited Date/Time 8/12/2014 10:33am
Some of those guys were taking that line on purpose!!!
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GuyB
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GuyB 8/11/2014 7:45am
8/11/2014 7:45am
And photographers (and everyone else) was kept well clear from the area with the idea that there might be bikes that ran wide through there.
mach6972
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mach6972 8/11/2014 7:51am
8/11/2014 7:51am
Fred Boss Mx Dion wrote:
Some of those guys were taking that line on purpose!!!
seemed to work well.not an advantage by any means but I think if you were on the line knowing you had that option if needed is a good thing
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jndmx 8/11/2014 7:52am
8/11/2014 7:52am
Fred Boss Mx Dion wrote:
Some of those guys were taking that line on purpose!!!
mach6972 wrote:
seemed to work well.not an advantage by any means but I think if you were on the line knowing you had that option if needed is...
seemed to work well.not an advantage by any means but I think if you were on the line knowing you had that option if needed is a good thing
As opposed to running into a steel stanchion....yes definitely a good thing.

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Fred Boss Mx Dion 8/11/2014 7:55am
8/11/2014 7:55am Edited Date/Time 8/11/2014 8:12am
GuyB wrote:
And photographers (and everyone else) was kept well clear from the area with the idea that there might be bikes that ran wide through there.
I understand the need for an escape route. The truth, though, is the people that cut inside the marker would have been pinched off if they had to go around the 1st turn properly . Looked to me that when it happened the 1st time the striped shirts didn't know how to handle it. The guys that were going inside had a definate advantage.
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hvaughn88 8/11/2014 7:59am
8/11/2014 7:59am
I bet running into a steel cable with a foam pool noodle around it would make you think twice about running it wide, haha
DC
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DC 8/11/2014 8:05am
8/11/2014 8:05am
Unadilla has always been a challenge with that fast 90-degree right-hander, and we came up with the escape route a couple years back to hopefully alleviate pile-ups. It was not pretty but it worked.

DC
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Markee 8/11/2014 8:11am
8/11/2014 8:11am
DC wrote:
Unadilla has always been a challenge with that fast 90-degree right-hander, and we came up with the escape route a couple years back to hopefully alleviate...
Unadilla has always been a challenge with that fast 90-degree right-hander, and we came up with the escape route a couple years back to hopefully alleviate pile-ups. It was not pretty but it worked.

DC
MX Sports
IF you have room for an escape route, why not just make that a part of the start?
Fred Boss Mx Dion 8/11/2014 8:14am
8/11/2014 8:14am
DC wrote:
Unadilla has always been a challenge with that fast 90-degree right-hander, and we came up with the escape route a couple years back to hopefully alleviate...
Unadilla has always been a challenge with that fast 90-degree right-hander, and we came up with the escape route a couple years back to hopefully alleviate pile-ups. It was not pretty but it worked.

DC
MX Sports
Redesign the 1st turn. If they have room for an inside escape lane, move the inside marker.
500guy
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500guy 8/11/2014 8:15am
8/11/2014 8:15am
Personally I think a better job needs to be done to keep the riders on the track, not just on the starts but all the way around.

The original rules of MX were if you go off the track you come back on as near as possible or get docked positions. Now they go off the track and race a different course until it's convenient to get back on.

I get the safety aspect but I feel it's out of control.
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DC 8/11/2014 8:19am
8/11/2014 8:19am Edited Date/Time 8/11/2014 8:21am
You have to draw the line somewhere and that's where it's ended up at Unadilla. The start has been the same for 45 years (other than flattening the slope it used to have in the middle) but the problem is that the bikes are getting faster and faster and they hit the first turn at full speed, faster than ever before.

Fred, I don't understand what you mean by inside escape lane -- that's on the outside.

Markee, if we make it wider, they will just go wider. It's a never-ending challenge.

500 Guy, that original rule hasn't been a rule for quite some time -- it's impossible to go back on the same spot at supercross anyway. What we need to tweak is the penalties for keeping up your speed when you go off but stay on the gas. They are supposed to slow down until they re-enter.

DC
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Fred Boss Mx Dion 8/11/2014 8:26am
8/11/2014 8:26am
DC wrote:
You have to draw the line somewhere and that's where it's ended up at Unadilla. The start has been the same for 45 years (other than...
You have to draw the line somewhere and that's where it's ended up at Unadilla. The start has been the same for 45 years (other than flattening the slope it used to have in the middle) but the problem is that the bikes are getting faster and faster and they hit the first turn at full speed, faster than ever before.

Fred, I don't understand what you mean by inside escape lane -- that's on the outside.

Markee, if we make it wider, they will just go wider. It's a never-ending challenge.

500 Guy, that original rule hasn't been a rule for quite some time -- it's impossible to go back on the same spot at supercross anyway. What we need to tweak is the penalties for keeping up your speed when you go off but stay on the gas. They are supposed to slow down until they re-enter.

DC
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You're right....Outside
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Crush 8/11/2014 8:30am
8/11/2014 8:30am Edited Date/Time 8/11/2014 8:31am
DC wrote:
Unadilla has always been a challenge with that fast 90-degree right-hander, and we came up with the escape route a couple years back to hopefully alleviate...
Unadilla has always been a challenge with that fast 90-degree right-hander, and we came up with the escape route a couple years back to hopefully alleviate pile-ups. It was not pretty but it worked.

DC
MX Sports
DC I kinda feel like you guys need to get one of those one sided holeshot frameworks...Like the ones from SX.

Unadilla with all those guys going screaming past the metal and cables... James almost hit it at RedBud...

It's a pretty easy fix for another safety thing. Unless you want to make the current one 10 feet wider–but I already asked you about making the tracks that same 10 feet wider! Smile At least if it is one sided, you plant it on the least dangerous side and put some cushions on it and hope for the best.
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Crush 8/11/2014 8:32am
8/11/2014 8:32am
500guy wrote:
Personally I think a better job needs to be done to keep the riders on the track, not just on the starts but all the way...
Personally I think a better job needs to be done to keep the riders on the track, not just on the starts but all the way around.

The original rules of MX were if you go off the track you come back on as near as possible or get docked positions. Now they go off the track and race a different course until it's convenient to get back on.

I get the safety aspect but I feel it's out of control.
Do you feel it's been that bad? I think they've been doing ok, the more track markers the better, I haven't seen tons of lines outside them recently... and the fines help!
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DC 8/11/2014 8:33am
8/11/2014 8:33am
Crush, great point, it's on my notes for 2015.

DC
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500guy
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500guy 8/11/2014 8:40am
8/11/2014 8:40am
DC wrote:
Crush, great point, it's on my notes for 2015.

DC
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one thing you could do like SX did was if there is a bail out on the start they put tough blocks a ways down the lane and made them get back on the track without going WFO to the next corner. There still needs to be something that for the lack of a better word penalizes the rider for going off the track.
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Crush 8/11/2014 8:42am
8/11/2014 8:42am
Happy to help DC!

I've usually got a thing or two to say about a thing or two!
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yak651 8/11/2014 8:47am
8/11/2014 8:47am
DC wrote:
Crush, great point, it's on my notes for 2015.

DC
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500guy wrote:
one thing you could do like SX did was if there is a bail out on the start they put tough blocks a ways down the...
one thing you could do like SX did was if there is a bail out on the start they put tough blocks a ways down the lane and made them get back on the track without going WFO to the next corner. There still needs to be something that for the lack of a better word penalizes the rider for going off the track.
This - There is a way to get back on it SX and MX where they went off but it's would cause A LOT of loss time. There should be some time loss from making a mistake but "now adays" there is no one saying you can't just pin it to the next opening of banners or tuff blocks, many times resulting in no time loss for a mistake.

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FGR01 8/11/2014 8:56am
8/11/2014 8:56am
Build a bank turn on the outside and widen it. I realize there's only so much space to work with but I think it could be done. You don't see bikes running wide outside the first turn at Glen Helen and that is the longest and fastest start around.
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Spydee 8/11/2014 9:06am
8/11/2014 9:06am
DC wrote:
You have to draw the line somewhere and that's where it's ended up at Unadilla. The start has been the same for 45 years (other than...
You have to draw the line somewhere and that's where it's ended up at Unadilla. The start has been the same for 45 years (other than flattening the slope it used to have in the middle) but the problem is that the bikes are getting faster and faster and they hit the first turn at full speed, faster than ever before.

Fred, I don't understand what you mean by inside escape lane -- that's on the outside.

Markee, if we make it wider, they will just go wider. It's a never-ending challenge.

500 Guy, that original rule hasn't been a rule for quite some time -- it's impossible to go back on the same spot at supercross anyway. What we need to tweak is the penalties for keeping up your speed when you go off but stay on the gas. They are supposed to slow down until they re-enter.

DC
MX Sports
That should be the unique challenge Unadilla has to offer in terms of the slow entry speed leading into the first corner - no exceptions. Formula 1 cars are racing around the streets of Monaco, and these car s aren't designed for slow circuits. In comparison to that I don't believe the fact bikes are quicker today should allow acceptions for carrying speed off the track and re-joining with an advantage.

This is why we watch racing, we want excitement. If they foresee that 40 riders aren't going to get through that turn cleanly then I don't get why they didn't just widen the turn as obviously there was plenty of room?
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Matt Fisher 8/11/2014 9:12am
8/11/2014 9:12am
When there's a need for an escape lane, simply make the entrance much slower. Maybe make a small chicane, or keep them outside the racing line long enough for it to be an obvious time penalty.
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mjskier 8/11/2014 9:42am
8/11/2014 9:42am
DC wrote:
Crush, great point, it's on my notes for 2015.

DC
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500guy wrote:
one thing you could do like SX did was if there is a bail out on the start they put tough blocks a ways down the...
one thing you could do like SX did was if there is a bail out on the start they put tough blocks a ways down the lane and made them get back on the track without going WFO to the next corner. There still needs to be something that for the lack of a better word penalizes the rider for going off the track.
yak651 wrote:
This - There is a way to get back on it SX and MX where they went off but it's would cause A LOT of loss...
This - There is a way to get back on it SX and MX where they went off but it's would cause A LOT of loss time. There should be some time loss from making a mistake but "now adays" there is no one saying you can't just pin it to the next opening of banners or tuff blocks, many times resulting in no time loss for a mistake.
Yes, make it that they have to slow down if they go wide.
It looks like there is enough room to add hay bales to make a chicane.
Aceofspades 8/11/2014 9:55am
8/11/2014 9:55am
Why does the Unadilla track look so crappy nowadays? Is it being overused? I'm talking about the actual condition of the dirt not the racing, which was outstanding.
Fred Boss Mx Dion 8/11/2014 10:02am
8/11/2014 10:02am
DC wrote:
Crush, great point, it's on my notes for 2015.

DC
MX Sports
500guy wrote:
one thing you could do like SX did was if there is a bail out on the start they put tough blocks a ways down the...
one thing you could do like SX did was if there is a bail out on the start they put tough blocks a ways down the lane and made them get back on the track without going WFO to the next corner. There still needs to be something that for the lack of a better word penalizes the rider for going off the track.
Well Said 500 Guy!
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GuyB 8/11/2014 10:04am
8/11/2014 10:04am
Aceofspades wrote:
Why does the Unadilla track look so crappy nowadays? Is it being overused? I'm talking about the actual condition of the dirt not the racing, which...
Why does the Unadilla track look so crappy nowadays? Is it being overused? I'm talking about the actual condition of the dirt not the racing, which was outstanding.
Not sure what you're watching. From trackside, the surface itself looks better than ever.

Overused? When would that be?
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Digger29 8/11/2014 10:31am
8/11/2014 10:31am Edited Date/Time 8/13/2014 10:25am
Aceofspades wrote:
Why does the Unadilla track look so crappy nowadays? Is it being overused? I'm talking about the actual condition of the dirt not the racing, which...
Why does the Unadilla track look so crappy nowadays? Is it being overused? I'm talking about the actual condition of the dirt not the racing, which was outstanding.
It NEVER gets used so that's definitely not the case and I was there and the track was in awesome shape and the dirt was awesome. Ya it was a little rutted but they caused that with a little too much water. All in all I would've killed to ride my new 15 300SX there on Saturday.
Sir Roostsalot 8/11/2014 10:36am
8/11/2014 10:36am Edited Date/Time 8/11/2014 10:37am
Aceofspades wrote:
Why does the Unadilla track look so crappy nowadays? Is it being overused? I'm talking about the actual condition of the dirt not the racing, which...
Why does the Unadilla track look so crappy nowadays? Is it being overused? I'm talking about the actual condition of the dirt not the racing, which was outstanding.
The track conditions were actually really good despite that theg have had very little rain all summer up there.
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kawirider819 8/11/2014 11:20am
8/11/2014 11:20am
Aceofspades wrote:
Why does the Unadilla track look so crappy nowadays? Is it being overused? I'm talking about the actual condition of the dirt not the racing, which...
Why does the Unadilla track look so crappy nowadays? Is it being overused? I'm talking about the actual condition of the dirt not the racing, which was outstanding.
Condition of the dirt is great dude. Loamy as hell. I know it kills to get roosted by it but it's a soft base.
Aceofspades 8/11/2014 11:31am
8/11/2014 11:31am
Aceofspades wrote:
Why does the Unadilla track look so crappy nowadays? Is it being overused? I'm talking about the actual condition of the dirt not the racing, which...
Why does the Unadilla track look so crappy nowadays? Is it being overused? I'm talking about the actual condition of the dirt not the racing, which was outstanding.
GuyB wrote:
Not sure what you're watching. From trackside, the surface itself looks better than ever.

Overused? When would that be?
I've been out of the mx loop for almost 20 years Steve. The condition of the soil looks different than it did on all the old videos I've seen. Maybe just looks that way from being in high definition as opposed to the old vids.
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GuyB 8/11/2014 11:35am
8/11/2014 11:35am
Aceofspades wrote:
I've been out of the mx loop for almost 20 years Steve. The condition of the soil looks different than it did on all the old...
I've been out of the mx loop for almost 20 years Steve. The condition of the soil looks different than it did on all the old videos I've seen. Maybe just looks that way from being in high definition as opposed to the old vids.
There are way fewer rocks than there used to be, though it still has teeth. This photo is going into Pit Bits (which I'm working on now), but I'll double up here.



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