The 20 thru 40 guys

Killer Customz
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Killer Customz
Edited Date/Time 5/27/2016 12:18pm
I just posted my article called "The Others" from Hangtown. Its just a quick race recap and some results that give some attention to the guys who will miss the top 20 results sheets, but they made the show!!! Please take a second to check it out.

http://www.kcmx.net/2016/05/the-othershangtown.html

Thanks.
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DA498
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DA498 5/24/2016 10:07am
5/24/2016 10:07am
Thanks for the info, huge props to the others for sure. Only the informed know the feat these guys are accomplishing.
Killer Customz
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Killer Customz 5/24/2016 6:20pm
5/24/2016 6:20pm
DA498 wrote:
Thanks for the info, huge props to the others for sure. Only the informed know the feat these guys are accomplishing.
Thanks! Privateers are what drive us. They are what gives us fans a 40 man gate week after week.
Bultaco
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Bultaco 5/24/2016 6:23pm
5/24/2016 6:23pm
Isn't it crazy how the 40th guy (slowest one to make the program) is still the fastest local that no one can keep up with?
rutsmash
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rutsmash 5/24/2016 7:24pm
5/24/2016 7:24pm
Bultaco wrote:
Isn't it crazy how the 40th guy (slowest one to make the program) is still the fastest local that no one can keep up with?
Yes..I wish I was that "slow".

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F150Motocrosser 5/25/2016 6:06am
5/25/2016 6:06am Edited Date/Time 5/25/2016 6:07am
Bultaco wrote:
Isn't it crazy how the 40th guy (slowest one to make the program) is still the fastest local that no one can keep up with?
When trying to describe to my non-moto friends how many levels of "good" there are in this sport; I compare it to golf. You might know somebody really really good; but there's always someone that's so much better its mind blowing

Good work KC!
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Starcrossed 5/25/2016 6:11am
5/25/2016 6:11am
Great to see you're continuing your blog this season. It's interesting to note that you see Roczen as potentially his own worst enemy. From my perspective, Dungey is Kenny's worst enemy, and is more skilled at managing a series, as opposed to a single race, which he is quite adept at managing also. It is not often said, for instance, that Kenny could be the champ if he could only keep it on two wheels. If we see another dominating performance at Glen Helen, it could be an uphill battle in the 450 class for anybody not named Roczen.
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Dtat720 5/25/2016 6:29am
5/25/2016 6:29am
Kenny seems to have managed the series just fine 2 years ago when he won it. Or a few years before that when he won his world championship.... Dungey is not his worst enemy, not even close. OP hit the nail on the head. Kenny battles Kenny. He seems to be fine once he has confidence in his set up. Like now. They got his bike where he likes it and he is doing what he has done his entire career. Win.
Starcrossed
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Starcrossed 5/25/2016 6:38am
5/25/2016 6:38am
I didn't say the OP was wrong, was merely presenting a different perspective. Kenny also battles Ryan, as we saw on a few instances during the SX season. In his two years campaigning the 450 outdoors, the only guy to beat Kenny in the points, is Dungey.
lumpy790
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lumpy790 5/25/2016 7:39am
5/25/2016 7:39am
21-40 are the back bone of the sport.
Killer Customz
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Killer Customz 5/26/2016 9:14pm
5/26/2016 9:14pm
Dtat720 wrote:
Kenny seems to have managed the series just fine 2 years ago when he won it. Or a few years before that when he won his...
Kenny seems to have managed the series just fine 2 years ago when he won it. Or a few years before that when he won his world championship.... Dungey is not his worst enemy, not even close. OP hit the nail on the head. Kenny battles Kenny. He seems to be fine once he has confidence in his set up. Like now. They got his bike where he likes it and he is doing what he has done his entire career. Win.
Thanks a lot guys! I say Kenny is his own worst enemy for that reason...confidence. I really feel like he is one of the biggest mind game kind of guys. I like him, but if Dungey get the start and Kenny works his way from 10 to 3, it's bound to be "a bad week of testing" or "I was sick this week." When he is on, he is ON. His speed at the end of SX showed that he is getting comfy and knows where he belongs. He just can't afford weekends of going 1-9 when we all know RD will be top 3 everytime he lines up.

Thanks again for the continued support.
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FWYT 5/26/2016 9:17pm
5/26/2016 9:17pm
Bultaco wrote:
Isn't it crazy how the 40th guy (slowest one to make the program) is still the fastest local that no one can keep up with?
rutsmash wrote:
Yes..I wish I was that "slow".
No kidding!
RbR
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RbR 5/26/2016 9:33pm
5/26/2016 9:33pm
Top 20 finishers each moto earn 'A' points. 1st = 25 'A' points; 20th = 1 'A' point
20 - 40 each moto earn 'B' points. 21st = 25 'B' points; 40 = 1 'B' point

This way, everybody on the track is racing for something. Yes, I know, I'm quite brilliant and such.
Starcrossed
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Starcrossed 5/26/2016 9:38pm
5/26/2016 9:38pm Edited Date/Time 5/26/2016 9:42pm
^ I like the concept. If riding a two stroke, award C points.Laughing

Gotta keep track of who is doing the best in the handicapped class, a race within a race.
SJK
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SJK 5/27/2016 9:37am
5/27/2016 9:37am
RbR wrote:
Top 20 finishers each moto earn 'A' points. 1st = 25 'A' points; 20th = 1 'A' point 20 - 40 each moto earn 'B' points...
Top 20 finishers each moto earn 'A' points. 1st = 25 'A' points; 20th = 1 'A' point
20 - 40 each moto earn 'B' points. 21st = 25 'B' points; 40 = 1 'B' point

This way, everybody on the track is racing for something. Yes, I know, I'm quite brilliant and such.
One option would be Australian MX National point system where winner gets 35 points, 2nd 32, 3rd 30, 4th 28, 5th 25, 6th 24 etc until 30th gets one point. They only give points riders finishing race, so DNF is not getting any points even though there would be less than 30 finishing.

Then lot more privateers could get points too and you still need to beat guys to get points.

In Canada they give points for top 25 riders winner getting 30, 2nd 27, 3rd 25, 4th 23, 5th 21, 6th 20 etc.
Beast666
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Beast666 5/27/2016 10:11am
5/27/2016 10:11am
Not to discount that making the gate at a national is no mean feat, but it is not the same today as it was 10+ years ago. When about 60 riders trying to make the gate in 2016 and in 2004 it was 80+ going for one of the 40 gate positions.

There really needs to be a greater increase in purse money for the non points paying positions when they have now gone up dramatically the last 30 years. What it costs a privateer to race 1 national is staggering compared to 10 - 15 years ago. Just the retail price of of a stock KX450F today would have got you a new KX250 in 2004 with nearly $3000 left over to pay for mods, spares, and entry fees and travel costs
Tarz483
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Tarz483 5/27/2016 10:30am
5/27/2016 10:30am Edited Date/Time 5/27/2016 10:30am
Bultaco wrote:
Isn't it crazy how the 40th guy (slowest one to make the program) is still the fastest local that no one can keep up with?
The 40th guy in the 250 class was gannon audette
And the 40th guy in 450 was James stewart

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Beast666
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Beast666 5/27/2016 10:40am
5/27/2016 10:40am
Bultaco wrote:
Isn't it crazy how the 40th guy (slowest one to make the program) is still the fastest local that no one can keep up with?
Tarz483 wrote:
The 40th guy in the 250 class was gannon audette
And the 40th guy in 450 was James stewart
Not correct the 40th qualifier was Kevin Weisbruch #252 on the 450 class and Stone Elder #660 in the 250's

Kevin finished 38th overall and Stone finished 35th
DDub8
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DDub8 5/27/2016 10:55am
5/27/2016 10:55am
Beast666 wrote:
Not to discount that making the gate at a national is no mean feat, but it is not the same today as it was 10+ years...
Not to discount that making the gate at a national is no mean feat, but it is not the same today as it was 10+ years ago. When about 60 riders trying to make the gate in 2016 and in 2004 it was 80+ going for one of the 40 gate positions.

There really needs to be a greater increase in purse money for the non points paying positions when they have now gone up dramatically the last 30 years. What it costs a privateer to race 1 national is staggering compared to 10 - 15 years ago. Just the retail price of of a stock KX450F today would have got you a new KX250 in 2004 with nearly $3000 left over to pay for mods, spares, and entry fees and travel costs
I think it's harder to make it today than it was 10-15 years ago. In the past, there were always a few local fast guys that would make the gate on speed alone without much training but it take 100% commitment to even get in the program today. The cost of bikes, importance of training, number of guys at training facilities around the year etc. mean the 40th place guy is faster than ever. Same is true in amateur racing and just making it to LL's in A or B is tough.

The sport is much faster even with a smaller sample size.
SJK
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SJK 5/27/2016 12:01pm
5/27/2016 12:01pm
DDub8 wrote:
I think it's harder to make it today than it was 10-15 years ago. In the past, there were always a few local fast guys that...
I think it's harder to make it today than it was 10-15 years ago. In the past, there were always a few local fast guys that would make the gate on speed alone without much training but it take 100% commitment to even get in the program today. The cost of bikes, importance of training, number of guys at training facilities around the year etc. mean the 40th place guy is faster than ever. Same is true in amateur racing and just making it to LL's in A or B is tough.

The sport is much faster even with a smaller sample size.
If you look at 250 qualifying times this year at Hangtown you needed to be within six and half seconds from fastest guy to qualify (top 36). 2005 at Hangtown there were only 10 riders within that range and to make top 36 you could be 13 seconds slower.

Even though there were more people lining up, it looks that it's much harder to make even top 40 now than it was to make top 20 ten years ago. When there were not so many fast guys, lot more people could think that they have a change, but now when it's not too easy to make it even to main, maybe more people think that it's not even worth to try...
Beast666
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Beast666 5/27/2016 12:18pm
5/27/2016 12:18pm
Beast666 wrote:
Not to discount that making the gate at a national is no mean feat, but it is not the same today as it was 10+ years...
Not to discount that making the gate at a national is no mean feat, but it is not the same today as it was 10+ years ago. When about 60 riders trying to make the gate in 2016 and in 2004 it was 80+ going for one of the 40 gate positions.

There really needs to be a greater increase in purse money for the non points paying positions when they have now gone up dramatically the last 30 years. What it costs a privateer to race 1 national is staggering compared to 10 - 15 years ago. Just the retail price of of a stock KX450F today would have got you a new KX250 in 2004 with nearly $3000 left over to pay for mods, spares, and entry fees and travel costs
DDub8 wrote:
I think it's harder to make it today than it was 10-15 years ago. In the past, there were always a few local fast guys that...
I think it's harder to make it today than it was 10-15 years ago. In the past, there were always a few local fast guys that would make the gate on speed alone without much training but it take 100% commitment to even get in the program today. The cost of bikes, importance of training, number of guys at training facilities around the year etc. mean the 40th place guy is faster than ever. Same is true in amateur racing and just making it to LL's in A or B is tough.

The sport is much faster even with a smaller sample size.
The gaps between the top qualifier and 40th place qualifier is about the same today as it was 10-15 years ago. The only thing that might make qualifying today is the format of a national on only 1 day. A chance at getting a clean lap in your qualifier or a bad start in the last chance race can be the difference of making the gate. Another thing to look at is the way the qualifiers are run with the slower groups running the track prior to lines being developed or after the track has become rougher. A quick time in a current qualifier is as simple as falling back to give you a clear track to get that lap time it is just you vs the track.

In 2004 a national was held over 2 days. Saturday you had 2 practice sessions then a qualifying race. The top 70 qualifiers made it to Sunday's show with another practice and qualifying race to make the top 40. One other thing to consider is the fact that the top 10 riders were already in the show and did not have to qualify.1 poor start in your qualifier and you had to dig deep haul ass and pass as many riders as possible to make the show. Going down in the first corner with 30 riders on the gate and having to make up 20 places to make the gate is much tougher since the race is only 4 laps.

The fact of the matter is the speed difference between 1st and 40th are about the same. Today you get a little less track time but for most riders it is just a matter of turning a clean lap in the qualifier to make the gate. Today 1 lap can put you in the show. 10 years ago you had to fight to get into the show. As for the amateur classes sandbagging has always been there. I seen riders drive 1000 miles to a different region to race the qualifiers for Ponca dropping a class in the process. Yet the local riders could not drop a class as the promoter of the local race and the qualifier was the same person.

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