The 125 class?

MX-LIFE.
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MX-LIFE. 10/14/2009 3:40pm
10/14/2009 3:40pm
MX-LIFE. wrote:
Newman, is JS7 riding a 125 in this race? Against 250f 's?
newmann wrote:
Yep. He would usually put 30 seconds on the field on that full factory SR125. Last race of the year he switched to the 250F and...
Yep. He would usually put 30 seconds on the field on that full factory SR125. Last race of the year he switched to the 250F and put a minute plus on everyone and set the cruise control if my mind recalls correctly. He was the only guy to toast everyone on the tiddler and it was not a typical Pro-Circuit ride. Full factory ride , trickery at its finest. I think this is your Unadilla race you are looking for. Don't have time to watch it though.





Wow thanks Newman! I know you guys are on here talking 125 vs 250's but No one can ?? JS7 Racing outdoors!!! I wish i could get his 125 yrs on DVD.. and i know im going to piss some ppl off but he his been kicking Reeds ass for awhile !! That 125 sure does sound good.
J.Saunders144 10/14/2009 3:45pm
10/14/2009 3:45pm
Tiki wrote:
I disagree. If you want to race, you can. Racing is expensive bottom line. If you want to race a stocker, you can. You guys make...
I disagree. If you want to race, you can. Racing is expensive bottom line. If you want to race a stocker, you can. You guys make it sound as if every 250F blows up when you look at it. They dont. In fact due to the large amount of them sold, I would say the ratio to them imploding is pretty rare. It is the same disinformation that used to be said about Kawasaki's KX's in the 80's they all seize. They didnt and dont.

Racing is expensive. I want to see the 125 class due to its nature. They sound neat, smell great and make for some great racing. Just like the 250F class, which I feel should stay as well.

I can appreciate the rivalry between the two, how about we as a community come back to earth and keep things realistic.
twizzler wrote:
It is a reality of expensive bikes all around. A new 10' 125 is $6k. Of course a person can go buy a used 125 or...
It is a reality of expensive bikes all around. A new 10' 125 is $6k. Of course a person can go buy a used 125 or 250 two stroke for less. But racers want the newest gidget. It's bred into our mentality. Although, it doesn't have to be that way. But it is. Kids are still making 8 bucks and hour today, I made that same amount 20 years ago. A 125 then was $3k it's now $6K!!! That's the underlying story.
rocrac wrote:
Good point.
Well in my experience being 20 years old currently I had to quit racing when I was 18 because I couldn't afford it anymore. Monthly bike payment 150.00, Monthly race fee 100.00, gas to track per month 300.00 , oil per month 160.00, Add in tires, tubes, air filters, air filter oil, chain lube, tools, driving back and forth from work and school, vehicle cost's, food, oh and not to mention part failure on a 4t could be up to access of 2 grand etc. Then I worked 30 hours per week at 8.25 an hr you are left with this.

MX Racing Cost's Per Month - $710.00 + what I didn't give prices for

Income at Min Wage Per Month - $990.00

$990 - $710 = $280.00

If you use 10.00 a day in gas that equals 280 per month and you now owe the bank $50.00 per month assuming your bike never breaks as well as your vehicle oh yeah you dont get hurt (my wrist just cost me $3,400.00 good buy savings)
txmxer
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txmxer 10/14/2009 4:03pm
10/14/2009 4:03pm
don't know if someone else said it, but DC said the other day that the insurance issues (parental consent) is one of the items driving the 18 age limit.

That means no 16/17 year olds in AMA sanctioned events IMO.
ml795rr
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ml795rr 10/14/2009 4:07pm
10/14/2009 4:07pm
i love 125's i still have my 02 kx 125 race bike and take it to the track on practice days and blitz kids on their 250f's. the down side to the 125 is it's built and runs on race fuel only vpu2 @ $90.00 for 5 gallons. i usually burn 2 gallons on a practice day. I have to replace the ring every 4 gallons of fuel and the piston and ring every 8 gallons. to ride this bike is expensive but fun as hell. I have won many races in the open class and vet A classes on this bike and refuse to part with it.

The Shop

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J.Saunders144 10/14/2009 4:54pm
10/14/2009 4:54pm
oh i forgot about bike insurance for the loan 300 a year, also ama and district membership costs
DanDunes818
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DanDunes818 10/14/2009 5:00pm
10/14/2009 5:00pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 2:44am
DC please figure out a way to make the 125 class happen.. 1st reason is obvious. The jump from 85cc 2 strokes to 250 4 strokes is way too drastic. 2nd we need a class that will groom are kids for the pro class while they're waiting for their 18th birthday.. Lastly I think if we don't have some kind of under 17 semi pro class we're going to lose a lot of kids to the gps or simply because they'll quit due to finanaces. The super fast kids like AC and others like him will be recruited to GP teams and a % of them will stay there even after they're old enough. Lets say one of the kids gets a ride in the GP's,does really well and gets fame and fortune over in Europe. Who's to say they're all going to want to give all that up to start over as a rookie here in the states. I'm sure a mojority of them will come back but I guaranteea good number of them will stay in Europe which will for sure hurt the ama talent pool in the long run.

I think rather then having the 18 and over rule they should of just brought back the 125. The rule isn't going to get these parents to keep their kids in school. It's just going to have them moving to Europe. On top of that it may even backfire and have kids going pro at 15 because you can race GPs at 15 so why even wait til they're 16 to start cashing in on their kids talents.
the_wood109
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the_wood109 10/14/2009 5:54pm
10/14/2009 5:54pm
There should be a sticky with nothing but Stewie on a 125 vids.
newmann
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newmann 10/14/2009 6:05pm
10/14/2009 6:05pm
Bill163 wrote:
Tiki, as a small bike shop owner I can tell you it's way cheaper to race and maintain,modify a 2 stroke 125 than a 250f under...
Tiki,
as a small bike shop owner I can tell you it's way cheaper to race and maintain,modify a 2 stroke 125 than a 250f under any reason the cost is almost 3 to 1 on engine rebuilds.

You can't compare 250f's today to 125's 250f's are way faster than the early day's remember the AMA killed the 125 with the gas rule in 04 it was only the freak of nature talent of Bubba that he was able to win that year.

Also don't tell me that the speed that 4 strokes generate on tracks now don't play into serious injuries today just look at the video of Bubba and Langston on 125's barely able to clear tables and step-up's and that's when 125's were at their peak.What a eye opener.Now every novice is over jumping the same stuff on a regular basis on 250 and 450f's.
Tiki wrote:
Bill you make some valid points. 250f's are faster, I believe they do contribute to injuries. Some of the younger kids are blazing tracks way faster...
Bill you make some valid points. 250f's are faster, I believe they do contribute to injuries. Some of the younger kids are blazing tracks way faster then they were.

Costs however, and the facts that get tossed around here are well: Full of Shit.
Since A racers were brought up, lets use them. They require the most maintenance and with respect to reality, they are being maintained as the manual states.

Aside from the retail cost of the bike, first is any A racer paying retail - NO
Maintenance. As stated above 125's require just as much if not more in the way of parts and frequency.

The bike, if racing AMA should be near stock. If racing a Modified class, add exhaust and any sneaky things you want to do to the engine. That is open for each bike and rider. How much they want to spend on the suspension they can get away with.

Granted valve train is more moving parts, the added expense. But valves are not replaced each moto such as a top end should be on a 125. Pistons are more for the thumper, but you can get buy a 1 race.

It was brought up I was a Vet - so I will go into history of 1995 when I was racing a 125's for fun. An A racer (lets use my buddy Sam, he was contesting to get a job racing bikes, he raced and qualified for the SX Main and Nationals - a privateer) he would replace top end every moto. Not day. Moto. Clutch every race. Drive train two races. Have you heard the register ringing yet? Cranks - two races max. Each crank was balanced, every cylinder ported, every head milled.

That is a lot of spinning wrenches. Again it all comes out in the wash. Both are expensive to campaign at the A level.

I do agree they are dangerously fast for someone that may not have the talent. Not my decision. There is a speed controller on the handlebar. It needs to be used.

Costs however, I call bullshit. Both are very expensive and anyone saying racing is affordable is lying to themselves and others.
At the pro level, have you looked at what a Pro-Circuit head costs for a 250F? You could spend 5-6 grand in the cylinder head alone. Port job on a 2 stroke is what 3-5 hundred? Again, I'm not talking getting 125's modded to a level of competing with the 250's. Just an entry level pro class with no works suspension (or "A" kits) or other one off unobtainable works parts. And yes, the TM125 and Husqvarna 125's would be legal as well. Keep it real here people.
Tiki
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Tiki 10/14/2009 6:35pm
10/14/2009 6:35pm
Newman, that was real for 1995. Remember that was when 125s raced against 125's. So if that is real for 1995, and a 250F today head is 5 grand. Do you really think 125's will be affordable as an entry class?

I like the idea of having them, but even stock, there are many consumables. When you say 125 there really is no affordability. Its racing. As long as there is something to go hog wild on, people will. With parts and their bodies.

If you are taking votes needed to add them, mark me down. I still love listening to those swarm of bees.
CamP
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CamP 10/14/2009 7:00pm
10/14/2009 7:00pm
For the average kid, the jump from 85cc 2T to 250cc4T is too big and the 250 4T costs more to own and operate. Eliminating the 125 2T from competition by forcing it to run against 250 4T's is an incredibly stupid move and detrimental to the overall health of the sport at the amateur level.
Lightning78
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Lightning78 10/14/2009 7:01pm
10/14/2009 7:01pm
God James was flat out amazing on that 125 ...... It's really easy to see the level of excitement when watching these races today has kind of dwindled a little .....I guess it's just seetin the way a 2 stroke rider flows around a track that makes it look so cool. Dont really see that kind of style with the 4 strokes in racing.
Lightning78
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Lightning78 10/14/2009 7:23pm
10/14/2009 7:23pm
dr516 wrote:
IMO the rule to ban leaded fuel is what really put and end to the competiveness of the 2 stroke in pro moto
Yea I know .....I wonder why nobody ever brings that up I try to post it at least once in every thread like this

Hey guys I think MX7MX has a 2 stroke vs 4 stroke debate only clause in his vital membership thats the only time he likes to come out and play
2T42
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2T42 10/14/2009 8:01pm
10/14/2009 8:01pm
dr516 wrote:
IMO the rule to ban leaded fuel is what really put and end to the competiveness of the 2 stroke in pro moto
Lightning78 wrote:
Yea I know .....I wonder why nobody ever brings that up I try to post it at least once in every thread like this Hey guys...
Yea I know .....I wonder why nobody ever brings that up I try to post it at least once in every thread like this

Hey guys I think MX7MX has a 2 stroke vs 4 stroke debate only clause in his vital membership thats the only time he likes to come out and play
Agreed. It is about time for him to come out with some irrelevant random statement...Here, I'll fill in for him. He's probably got homework tonight and can't come out and play.

"TWO STROKES ARE JUNK! Get over it! NOBODY WANTS THEM! THEY ARE GONE!

There. Hope everybody got there MX7XXM7MX fix for the night.
andymoto
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andymoto 10/14/2009 8:26pm
10/14/2009 8:26pm
I remember when a FMF pipe/silencer combo cost retail around $275 bucks or so.

Below is what a 250F pipe/silencer from FMF costs(everyone knows anyways)

YAMAHA YZ250F'10 RCT FACTORY 4.1C COMPLETE EXHAUST SYSTEM W / TI MEGABOMB HEADER

Const: w/Titanium MegaBomb Hdr


More Info

Less Info
Price: $949.99
Prod# 044329

A thousand fricken bucks.

Yet you'll see half the Beginners class have this setup that some can't even race the bike; ride, yeah; race.....not with the front runners.

I sponsored and wrenched back in those mid '90s on thru the 2000s and while we were lucky to have a 125 and 250 the whole season(a time or two have an extra 125 for a practice bike), those bikes with all the engine porting and gizmos were still at least for us very reliable that we could go a couple SXs and then drive all night contingency racing to have a parts stock that we were frugal with. One rod and crank bearing/seal kit 2 times yr on 125/ 1 for the 250.

Still a grand for a FMF Ti megabomb and silencer is ridiculous for most riders to need.

Like to see more OEM 125s available for those kids that we can maybe, just maybe keep in our sport; a Beginner or Novice 125 should be able to get a good number of practice and races before a top end replacement as long as it's maintained well and not the intimidation factor of the 250F.

BobbyM
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BobbyM 10/14/2009 10:07pm
10/14/2009 10:07pm
twizzler wrote:
It is a reality of expensive bikes all around. A new 10' 125 is $6k. Of course a person can go buy a used 125 or...
It is a reality of expensive bikes all around. A new 10' 125 is $6k. Of course a person can go buy a used 125 or 250 two stroke for less. But racers want the newest gidget. It's bred into our mentality. Although, it doesn't have to be that way. But it is. Kids are still making 8 bucks and hour today, I made that same amount 20 years ago. A 125 then was $3k it's now $6K!!! That's the underlying story.
rocrac wrote:
Good point.
J.Saunders144 wrote:
Well in my experience being 20 years old currently I had to quit racing when I was 18 because I couldn't afford it anymore. Monthly bike...
Well in my experience being 20 years old currently I had to quit racing when I was 18 because I couldn't afford it anymore. Monthly bike payment 150.00, Monthly race fee 100.00, gas to track per month 300.00 , oil per month 160.00, Add in tires, tubes, air filters, air filter oil, chain lube, tools, driving back and forth from work and school, vehicle cost's, food, oh and not to mention part failure on a 4t could be up to access of 2 grand etc. Then I worked 30 hours per week at 8.25 an hr you are left with this.

MX Racing Cost's Per Month - $710.00 + what I didn't give prices for

Income at Min Wage Per Month - $990.00

$990 - $710 = $280.00

If you use 10.00 a day in gas that equals 280 per month and you now owe the bank $50.00 per month assuming your bike never breaks as well as your vehicle oh yeah you dont get hurt (my wrist just cost me $3,400.00 good buy savings)
you shoulda sold weed and sponsored yerself...seriously. don't shit yerself...
mxracer32
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mxracer32 10/15/2009 6:50am
10/15/2009 6:50am
85cc, 125cc 2stroke, 350cc 4stroke. there ya go.

125 racing seems so much better. when the top 12 guys are so on 250f's can do everything the 450s can do its boring.
-eagle-
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-eagle- 10/15/2009 7:08am
10/15/2009 7:08am
Not going there with the 125 two stroke class but:

A pro am support class would be awesome.
Riders 16-18 along with the guys who have never made a sx night show or a national gate. If not, the gp's and canadian nats are going to get some good young US talent.

Problem is, it would have to headline the am day program because of the wma and everything else that takes up the one day format. I would like to see the wma and a support class headline the am day and bring back qualifiers for the big kids.
partialperson
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partialperson 10/15/2009 8:33am
10/15/2009 8:33am
rocrac wrote:
A class 16-20 year olds are quiting racing altogether everywhere. High cost of competitive equipment is the main culprit IMHO.
The prophet has spoken! Good call Rocke, once parental support stops or the rider see's the real financial struggle of the parent......

Pit Row

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