Starchildeyes' (aka Flatout111) MX vs ATV Supercross In-Depth Review

Not much traffic on Game forum so thought a lot of the moto forum members would appreciate an in-depth review of the game looking at the pros and cons, in my opinion.

Starchildeyes' (aka FLATOut111) impressions of Mx Vs ATV Supercross. Warning: Long post!!

Hey guys, I wanted to give the game plenty of time, get used to the feel and the control and level the bikes up and THEN give my full thoughts and impressions. I, purposefully, stayed away from both Reflex and Alive and any other games in the series for a good 2 months prior to the release of Supercross. I played other MX games but wanted to dodge those in this series for a bit. I knew it would be different and wanting to somewhat disengage from those titles to give Supercross a fair take on it's own merit. I have since popped in both Reflex and Alive to get a base feel on those games again.

I'm going to break it down into an overall impression, what I really like, what is okay but could be better and what I totally dislike as well as a few tips that work for me. Hopefully this constructive criticism will be seen by Reinhard, Ken, Mike, Red and the guys at Rainbow/Nordic and at least consider the changes and improvements I mention for DLC, patches and next game installments.

Considering some of the opinions on the Nordic board I think some of my thoughts may come as a bit of a surprise. For the record, I didn't care at all for Unleashed with it's floaty air balloon physics, mile wide highway tracks and horrible catchup AI. I liked Reflex and thought it controlled and felt the best in the series, had the best tracks to that point but was hampered by floaty physics, too much air time, tracks again too large, exaggerated speeds, a terrible weightless feel and some kamikaze AI who would regularly take you and themselves out...constantly. Lastly, I liked Alive but it didn't control as well as Reflex, had the horrible air drag and the tracks pretty much sucked all the way around minus the JS7 stuff. However it did have some weight finally to the bikes, nailed the track scale perfectly, in my opinion (go back to that track scale, guys), and had the best thing ever in console gaming...the JS7 Compound which had, simply stated, the BEST tracks in this series or any other. The JS7 SX tracks were amazing. Technical, tight, difficult , fun and rewarding. All the games in the series had a pretty meaningless points series or none, whatsoever, which has always been disappointing.

Bear in mind, I don't really play online a lot but prefer to "role play" as Jamie T called it, appropriately where I like to play as my favorite rider, in this case Stew, and play against the other Pros such as KRoc, Mookie, Dunge, Reed, Alessi, etc in a valid points series on tracks that replicate the real ones as much as possible. In this regard, nothing comes close to MXGP as they have recreated the world series very accurately and authentically. No, MXGP doesn't control as well as MVA but regarding authenticity Milestone has set the benchmark and I do love that game. But AMA Supercross is my passion so always favor SX and the Monster Supercross series and prefer SX games, generally. So most of my gaming is done aqainst the AI or against buddies at Supercross parties as we call it.

It also is important to state that Nordic/Rainbow did this game on about half the time that most games are built in. Yes, they had the old code but there was also a LOT to clean up, IP wise, just to get everything running properly, not to mention opening offices, getting tools up and running, etc. So, even though there are times I am critical I do understand time constraints. But I am hoping some things can be done the next go round when they have a full development cycle.

Okay with that out of the way....

OVERALL IMPRESSION:

Overall...after several days of playing the game and learning the game, I think Supercross is the best game in the MVA series and a VERY GOOD game. I thank Nordic and Rainbow and commend the guys for doing a job well done in a super short amount of time. I do think it is OVERALL the best game in the series but it still has a lot of issues that need to be tweaked or "flat out" addressed. I'm not saying it is the best thing ever..because trust me.....it isn't. I have some major issues and dislikes about Supercross. But I personally only liked Reflex and Alive. I know most think Reflex was the second coming. In my opinion, it was very good, control and physics wise but still had a LOT of issues. Same with Alive. Supercross seems to be a good marriage between the two games, TO ME, but has much better tracks, which is generally a key point for me. Unfortunately, it has a bit of Unleashed in there as well which does not do it for me, personally. But, as a whole, I like the game quite a bit!!

WHAT I REALLY LIKE ABOUT SUPERCROSS:

Great track designs. The best in the series, by far. Some of them are a bit long to be realistic but still some well thought out tracks. It's well known that I want replicas of Monster Energy Supercross tracks but still Rainbow did a great job on these designs. Bear in mind I say designs as there are some issues, imo, that I will address later.

The bikes control well, after leveling up. I know some disagree with this but hey, just my opinion. It feels a lot like Reflex meets Alive to me but with the weight of Alive's bikes. Which is good! Totally happy with it. It DOES need more traction with the factory chassis but other than that I'm good. Yes, we all know the whips and scrubs are hard to bring back but I am honestly getting there and it is just done differently. But again, I think people worry more about whips and scrubs than they do good ground physics and racing. But hey, just my opinion. It's a bit difficult but I am getting decent at it now after several days playing. So good control and feel. Yes, lacks a bit of traction but most pros always say..."it was slippery". Just like in Reflex. I LIKE the fact that there is a learning curve. Making a game that every casual gamer can just pick u and play is taking the skill out of the game. Doesn't need to be MX Sim frustrating but nothing wrong with a learning curve.

Manual shifting. Really like this and it adds a lot to me. I WISH it was mapped to L3 for upshift and R3 for downshift like I suggested like a year ago but hey, it's close. And about time we started seeing some additions to the control.

Competitive AI. Hey, I'm getting toasted quite often so no worries here. They often take unrealistic lines but I still think it is pretty well done.

Audio sounds real good just like Alive did.

Holding the brake in and rolling jumps to get back in rhythm feels really nice. (Do this instead of preloading and floating high in the air. More realistic and also shaves seconds. when you make a mistake.) Rolling jumps is crucial and realistic that most games ignore!!!

Game looks crisp and nice. (Stock bikes however...well, we will discuss that later.)

Nice to have a points series. This is huge. However it is majorly flawed so this will also hit my next section.

The game is a lot of fun. I know this was a huge point for Nordic. Mission accomplished. It is pretty challenging to hit all the right lines, especially on the more technical tracks, but never frustrating. So good job on that. When you do get into a good rhythm it feels pretty sweet!!

Step ons and step offs and table tops are extremely well done!!

WHAT IS OKAY BUT COULD BE BETTER:

The championship points series. Great to have it, thank you guys. However it is really flawed by one thing...to me. We need to be able to choose our competing riders in the field. Every time I have chosen the 450 championship as Stew the lineup consists of 2, maybe 3, upper echelon riders and then some riders that honestly might not even make the 22 man main event each week in real life. No offense to them as they all destroy me and most humans on a dirt bike. But it really makes the points battles...kinda meh. Actually, a lot meh, sadly. Finishes still seem a bit random. I had a guy I had never heard of beat James Stewart a few times and trust me, I know almost all the riders, even the Enticknaps, Blose, etc. So not just the big guys are known to me. I love and study the sport. But this random finishes make the points battle lack a lot. Riders need to be rated, points wise, like a Madden game and ride/race accordingly. Stew, fast but crash prone, Kenny fast but not a ton of endurance, Alessi quick off the gate but fades, Reed, consistent, etc. Really thankful we have a full 17 race points series with full 20 lap main options but this really brings it down a LOT. So let us choose who is in the championship races. Simple name and checkbox would work.

Track lengths. Glad we don't have the 35 second Alive SX but these tracks could be shortened a bit to mimic the real series. However, they are really good designs so not going to complain about this too much. Would be nice to have some spilt sections, walls, sand sections implemented more.

Control mapping. Let us remap it how each individual wants/needs.

Bike slides out a lot side to side. And not really realistically. It has decent traction sometimes (better than Reflex, imo) but sometimes it is horribly slick, with the factor chassis. This still could use tweaking.

Good amount of Pro riders and gear and OEMs. Missing Fox and the Red Bull helmets from the past, sadly but hey, it's logistics. However, you could knock it out of the park if you could do what MXGP did with the full license. I understand it is difficult but I think the reward would be huge. Nordic Games presents Monster Energy Supercross on XBox1/PS4/PC. It would explode.

Clutch mechanic. I like you can just pop and release it. That is nice. However, it just is too much of a boost. It adds to another issue I will discuss later. Just tone it down quite a bit to make it more realistic. But do like how it works now so it falls in the okay but could be better category.

Improve control elements. Add a rear brake option. It really adds a lot the control of the bike.

Presentation. I am giving the team a break on this one putting it here as I know they had zero time to work on this really. Its the same as Alive. It's blah. MXGP has the best presentation in a MX game, thus far. Reflex was better than Supercross/Alive presentation wise but it again was meh compared to Milestone's effort. And hopefully Nordic will get a license for the official series. Would be awesome to get commentary like every other sports game and to hear Ralph and Fro in the booth with Jenny trackside in the game. Again, look at the NBA2K series. The presentation blows you away. Again, it is apples to oranges budget wise, I know but steps could be taken. But other MX games have still done way better even back to EA Supercross in 1999 with commentary from Eckman and Bailey, a TV style presentation and games like THQ's Superfly with Coombs talking about tracks and MTX with Cameron Steele and the pop up running order in race. Best route would to make a pit board that pops up when you go by mechanic's row.

Totally thankful to race a 17 race series with full 20 lap main options. Thank you, guys!!!! However, it would be great to have a full night's event, if we choose. Heats, semis, LCQs then full 15 or 20 lap mains in the full points series, please.

Bike customization. Nice to be able to upgrade the bike with cool parts but having to race to power up each bike pretty much sucks. Implement a cash system for race finishes to buy parts like RC's Motocross Championship back on the PSX. Also, the Nordic/Rainbow bikes look hideous. There is no decent yellow in the color palette and good luck trying to make a bike look anything like Stew or KRoc's Suzuki. Hopefully that RMZ bike will hit DLC.

The AI riders need a bike switch option. To assign them OEM bikes once purchased. Would make the game look much better! More authentic. If someone buys DLC bikes they should have this option. I know there was no time to implement this this go round but in the future.

AI riders don't crash as much thank God but they do take seem non realistic lines and jump some crazy stuff not sure would ever happen.

Track scale. It is better than Reflex but I think Alive nailed a perfect realistic yet fun track scale. These tracks a re a bit large, still. Supercross is tight! This could be better.

Whips and scrubs do seem hard to pull off. I am getting it but I think it could work a bit better. But with time, I am getting pretty darn good at it so I am cool with the learning curve. I actually wish games had more learning curve so I don't put this as a negative as most.

Collision seems a bit wonky still. Getting landed on should cause you to wreck. The key is to train the AI not to land on people....which this game doesn't do that well. There is a fine line between the kamikaze of Reflex and the nothing can hurt me of Alive. Still got to get there.

WHAT I TOTALLY DISLIKE ABOUT SUPERCROSS:

My main gripe is the game is just too fast. Supercross seems faster than Reflex was...which was too fast as well. The tight JS7 tracks made Alive more feasible feeling but overall the game needs to be slowed down quite a bit to replicate the real speeds of our sport. And I understand the team was trying to replicate the feel of being ON the bike rather than watching it but I just think it is overdone. Slowing the game down, making it a more realistic scale won't take away the fun, guys. Trust me. Look how much people loved the JS7 stuff. Game speed is speculative so the best case scenario is simply put a game speed slider. 90% of sports games have this.

Preload. I live with it but truth be told it worked much better in Reflex. The flick stick back then forward method is just not good. Pretty simple. Would love for it to not return. It's bearable, not enjoyable. Go back to Reflex method.

The turns. Just WAY too large and wide. Supercross is tight. I can live with the larger scale if I have too but these corners are ridiculous. Unleashed-like. Meh. And the first turn in SX should always be real tight. Not portrayed well in this game.

Brakes not necessary. Now granted, for rolling jumps,scrubbing and keeping the bike low I use the brakes a lot. In corners it's pretty much non-existant. Alive did this much better but a lot of it was because the scale was more realistic and you had to brake. Braking is a PIVOTAL part of the sport.

Points series made "meh" by lack of being able to select your riders in event. Almost every oints series I run in there is 2 or 3 top 20 guys and a bunch of riders that even I...a moto nerd who knows everyone...really isn't familiar with. Let us check off who we want in the points championship.

Speedometer. Not necessary in a SX. At least give us option to turn individual components of HUD off like way back in Supercross Circuit. Would prefer occasional lap time, running order, position etc that comes up for a bit then disappears.

The starts kinda suck. The hop is unrealistic and needs to go away. Reflex/Alive much better.

Like all MX games, the respawn is too fast after a crash. The average crash takes 7-8 seconds for a normal tip over.

Glad you got rid of the wreck avoidance arrow. Now if we could get the whip text off the screen. Too much unnecessary info on HUD.

Freeriding SX tracks is great. But trust me...no one cares about longest jump, hangtime stats. People freeride tracks to lower lap times. But there is no lap times on the freeride HUD??? That one is a weird omission.

****The overall direction does seem to be catered to the casual gamer more than to the MX/SX fan. I do think the series needs to go in a more realistic (yet still fun) direction. The hardcore fans will continue to buy DLC, talk about the game on forums and keep the games alive until the next iteration long after the casual gamer has played it for two weeks and then traded it in on the next hot thing at Gamestop. Your priority should always be the MX/SX fan, not the casual fan. Still make it fun and accessible but target the MX/SX fans first and foremost. There are MILLIONS of MX fans in the world. Please them and you will succeed far more rather than just trying to please a casual gamer who doesn't know who Justin Brayton and Mike Alessi are.

MY GAME TIPS: (Most have been said but what the heck)

Use manual transmission (preset 5). Though honestly you can kinda stick it in 3rd and leave it, I do start in second, go to third, sometimes 4th and do upshift and downshift when it would be appropriate. Makes the game more realistic to me.

I've found that the best way to blitz the whoops is to hold the left analog completely forward and hold the right analog completely back. Bike weight forward, rider back back. This is the fastest way to get thru the whoops, I think. Its just like Reflex.

Use rider reflex to weight the outside peg in turns. It helps a bit with the lack of traction with the factory chassis.

To roll jumps, lean rider reflex back while holding brake.

Avoid the preload as much as you can. I use it VERY sparingly. It can be done. Yeah, there are a few jumps that require it but I honestly do most of my jumps by leaning back at the face of the jump, ala Reflex. I carry momentum and also roll jumps which is more realistically. Again, I don't battle online much so I don't feel the need to be uber-fast and ride totally unrealistically. I like to play the game as realistic as possible. Stay low. When going into certain rhythms tap the brake before taking off (whether scrubbing or not) to keep the bike super low unless you have to clear a jump.

Brake into corners. (You don't have to but hey, I'm trying to play it realistically).

I LOVE the custom cam as a slot cam turned to see a little of the left side of bike and lowered all the way and zoomed all the way in. Really nice to be able to see the front wheel and helps make landing on the downside more accurate. This is a HUGE winning point of the game to me!!

Anyway, back to the game. Thanks to Reinhard, Mike, Ken, Red and the whole Nordic/Rainbow team for a job well done. Hopefully you will take my good impressions as well as my needed improvements to heart and we can see this series progress and become better the next time around and for years to come.

Starchildeyes aka Flatout111
Marc Anthony Bowden