Star Yam 250F what failed?

6/21/2016 9:24pm
Last time 2 factory engines failed same day?

What we know? Both bikes went smoking or steaming before they shut down.

Anyone have experience with a meltdown that looked similar?
Pulp show they mentioned water pump seal and also discussed the wrong map (lean fuel=heat).
From my couch it looked as though the water pump seal or shaft failed and they over heated.
An abnormal amount of those first 2014 pump shafts did fail, looks like maybe the team received a bad batch?

Let's never point our finger at an individual unless we have proof.

What do you all think? Any insiders have the goods?
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colintrax
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6/21/2016 9:32pm
I assumed head gasket or head. Weren't they blowing smoke out the exhaust and radiator?
sgrimmxdad
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6/22/2016 3:33am
Hoping hear the answer too!
MxKing809
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6/22/2016 3:42am
According to Pulp it was reported to be two things by two people who would know:

- Water pumps seals
- Wrong EFI map that leaned the bikes out too much

Put your tin foil hat on...... he said there was also some industry rumblings that it was intentional because both Martin's are leaving for other 250 teams.
51xc
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6/22/2016 3:50am
just reminded me of rossi's and lorenzo's engine blowing up a couple weeks ago on their motogp yamahas. not trying to bash yamaha but they had some bad luck recently.

The Shop

Helder
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6/22/2016 4:11am
Would a team really do that surely having to Yammy's blow up is not a good look for the team regardless of where the rider goes next year!?!?!?
kongols
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6/22/2016 4:35am
Helder wrote:
Would a team really do that surely having to Yammy's blow up is not a good look for the team regardless of where the rider goes...
Would a team really do that surely having to Yammy's blow up is not a good look for the team regardless of where the rider goes next year!?!?!?
I don`t believe a second they did it intentionally.
6/22/2016 4:38am
MxKing809 wrote:
According to Pulp it was reported to be two things by two people who would know: - Water pumps seals - Wrong EFI map that leaned...
According to Pulp it was reported to be two things by two people who would know:

- Water pumps seals
- Wrong EFI map that leaned the bikes out too much

Put your tin foil hat on...... he said there was also some industry rumblings that it was intentional because both Martin's are leaving for other 250 teams.
I can believe that an EFI map caused it to go too lean...its just ironic that Aaron and Cooper have the exact same bike and theirs are totally fine where both martin bikes have issues.

Water pump seals...meh I feel like we have that figured out by now.
JackLHyde
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6/22/2016 4:39am
MxKing809 wrote:
According to Pulp it was reported to be two things by two people who would know: - Water pumps seals - Wrong EFI map that leaned...
According to Pulp it was reported to be two things by two people who would know:

- Water pumps seals
- Wrong EFI map that leaned the bikes out too much

Put your tin foil hat on...... he said there was also some industry rumblings that it was intentional because both Martin's are leaving for other 250 teams.
Was it the same cause for both bikes? Because if yes, they did a poor job of preventing it on Jeremys bike!
HenryA
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6/22/2016 4:50am
Vapor lock Kissing
MXD
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6/22/2016 5:03am
I can't even believe I'm responding to the conspiracy theory but here goes. They are leaving regardless so would you want them to give you a national championship on their way out the door or nothing?
c0ncEpT
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6/22/2016 5:10am
IMO it looked more like a cracked piston to me. 1st bit of smoke coming from the exhaust and then progressively more coming from what appeared to be the crankcase vent under the bike.
BobPA
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6/22/2016 5:10am
Wrong map? That just makes them sound incompetent.

But you never know
kongols
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6/22/2016 5:42am
BobPA wrote:
Wrong map? That just makes them sound incompetent.

But you never know
Ha, forgot to change mapping after Colorado altitude. They run different mapping there. Yeah.Shocked
cwtoyota
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6/22/2016 6:17am
c0ncEpT wrote:
IMO it looked more like a cracked piston to me. 1st bit of smoke coming from the exhaust and then progressively more coming from what appeared...
IMO it looked more like a cracked piston to me. 1st bit of smoke coming from the exhaust and then progressively more coming from what appeared to be the crankcase vent under the bike.
I was thinking the same.
On that model, the crankcase vent is a few inches below the water pump.

That smoke looked blue to me on the broadcast...

For those who don't know:

White smoke = coolant / steam
black smoke = unburned fuel
blue smoke = engine oil
ehr400
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6/22/2016 6:25am
Yeah that was spewing blue/ white smoke out of the engine breather. Probably burned up a headgasket with a lean map.
6/22/2016 6:33am
I can believe that an EFI map caused it to go too lean...its just ironic that Aaron and Cooper have the exact same bike and theirs...
I can believe that an EFI map caused it to go too lean...its just ironic that Aaron and Cooper have the exact same bike and theirs are totally fine where both martin bikes have issues.

Water pump seals...meh I feel like we have that figured out by now.
You can't believe that an EFI map would cause a lean condition? Is this sarcasm?
resetjet
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6/22/2016 6:35am
Factory race bike and stock bike are not the same thing. Why bash yamaha????

Lean map makes sense.

Had to be some heated calls on monday from japan to star though!!!!!!! You idiot....you bring shame on yamaha....
1911
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6/22/2016 6:50am
Bad spark plug.
TSCHAM101
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6/22/2016 6:55am Edited Date/Time 6/22/2016 10:27am
BobPA wrote:
Wrong map? That just makes them sound incompetent.

But you never know
kongols wrote:
Ha, forgot to change mapping after Colorado altitude. They run different mapping there. Yeah.Shocked
whoops
Motodork
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6/22/2016 7:03am
They probably installed the wrong color power band, that will toast a motor every time.
Crush
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6/22/2016 7:23am
What was the final word on Cooper's engine failure earlier this year?
slowgti
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6/22/2016 7:26am
I wouldn't be surprised if it was a bad piston or head gasket. Bad batches happen in manufacturing. The fact that 2 of 5 team bikes had problems kind of points to a part problem.
Insider347
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6/22/2016 7:42am
c0ncEpT wrote:
IMO it looked more like a cracked piston to me. 1st bit of smoke coming from the exhaust and then progressively more coming from what appeared...
IMO it looked more like a cracked piston to me. 1st bit of smoke coming from the exhaust and then progressively more coming from what appeared to be the crankcase vent under the bike.
cwtoyota wrote:
I was thinking the same. On that model, the crankcase vent is a few inches below the water pump. That smoke looked blue to me on...
I was thinking the same.
On that model, the crankcase vent is a few inches below the water pump.

That smoke looked blue to me on the broadcast...

For those who don't know:

White smoke = coolant / steam
black smoke = unburned fuel
blue smoke = engine oil
I have to agree. It didn't look like steam to me. Looked more like smoke.
DW324
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6/22/2016 8:19am Edited Date/Time 6/22/2016 8:22am
What if all 4 bikes had the same mapping and the lean spot only happened to the bikes that were running hard up in the front vs the other 2 bikes further behind. More throttle = more fuel needed, less throttle = less fuel needed.
resetjet
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6/22/2016 8:45am
Well a lean bike can cause eithet or both. At the speeds these guys go, the cooling is pretty good. However where the heat is being generated ie cylinder, it can get red hot and melt pistons rings can fail, valves can get burnt and so forth and never overheat. I blew up a bike in a lean condition without any coolant loss at all. Blue smoke makes sense whrn it gets so hot the piston starts to melt even though bike full of fluid. On a 250f this is not a stretch.
Boarddesign
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6/22/2016 8:49am
MXD wrote:
I can't even believe I'm responding to the conspiracy theory but here goes. They are leaving regardless so would you want them to give you a...
I can't even believe I'm responding to the conspiracy theory but here goes. They are leaving regardless so would you want them to give you a national championship on their way out the door or nothing?
Would you want to pay the Championship bonus to a guy who won't be with you any longer? ~Devils advocate
tb901
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6/22/2016 8:50am
TSCHAM101 wrote:
whoops
Richer at altitude? I don't claim to be the smartest guy, but this seems upside down. I'm sure you guys will check me
TSCHAM101
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6/22/2016 8:56am Edited Date/Time 6/22/2016 10:27am
whoops
500guy
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6/22/2016 9:05am
TSCHAM101 wrote:
whoops
It's all about Lambda = perfect air to fuel ratio 14.7:1 , less air means less fuel is needed.

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