So, the two stroke class at Lorettas

click click bang bang
Edited Date/Time 2/5/2013 2:39pm
How do you guys think it will go? As of right now nationally there is only really Ransdell, Gragg and Tannenbaum in B and A up front on smokers. Do you think it is going to be more of a 20-25 year old class with fast local pros riding? Because in the top 10 of these classes they are mostly "amateur pro riders" riding 20-50 thousand dollar factory 250fs on feeder teams for the pros. No matter who rides it it is going to be awesome and I hope it is a big success!
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wardy
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wardy 12/7/2011 11:05pm
12/7/2011 11:05pm
hope it works ok, but the riders that ride smokers are mostly local level riders that like to race. be able to do it at a reasonable price and not run all over the place to become program filler.

adding a "smoker" class and then throwing the 150's in with the 85's after all whats the point. 2 years from now people will be sitting around scratching thier heads wondering why the 85 class has lost a large percentage of it's ridership. at that point there will be only one place to point that finger.
Mspicer
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Mspicer 12/8/2011 3:56am
12/8/2011 3:56am
It seems that is already happening without the supplemental rules. The 50's 60's an 80's classess have all diminished in participation rates. At the local level, the gates are getting smaller and smaller each season and at the national level, it looks like the same argument could be made. We have close to 7,000 registered AMA racers in our four state district; Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Ohio, and the mini's make up fewer than 35% of those racers. The rest are big bikes. So there is a trend leading to fewer and fewer mini riders filling in as riders move on to big bikes.
DC
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DC 12/8/2011 4:25am
12/8/2011 4:25am
Guys, ever think that maybe the economy might have something to do with the lack of mini racers?

DC
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tuz371
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tuz371 12/8/2011 4:58am
12/8/2011 4:58am Edited Date/Time 12/8/2011 4:58am
DC wrote:
Guys, ever think that maybe the economy might have something to do with the lack of mini racers?

DC
MX Sports
I dunno Dave. I have 8 and 5 year old sons with a TTR50 and PW50 in the garage. If they wanted to get into racing, I would not have a problem letting my 450, and riding, go to support them. And I know the little race bikes can be grenades but why is new equipment always a must? Far and away the most popular used bikes on ebay and craigslist (at least in my area) are 85's.

I believe a family could put together a low $$ race effort for junior. Also, why does everybody need to run travel trailers and fun movers? Whatever happened to vans and pick-ups with an enclosed trailer?

If anything, it's the parents who are making the sport too expensive, not the kids.

The Shop

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Mspicer
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Mspicer 12/8/2011 5:00am
12/8/2011 5:00am
DC wrote:
Guys, ever think that maybe the economy might have something to do with the lack of mini racers?

DC
MX Sports
Your right, the economy certainly has something to do with it, but it is a trend nonetheless. And if this trend continues lets say for the next 5 years, what's going to happen to that 35% in our area? It will only decrease further. Your the expert DC, what do you think? The supplemental rules are not the end all to mini racing. People think that because you are able to race a 150r with the 85's that the mini racing world as we know it is over, that is absurd! These rules are giving racers more choices. People put way too much emphasis on mini racing that they fail to acknowledge the big picture and that is that if you are in this for the long haul, then the 4 stroke is the end result. Prolonging the inevitable isn't going to help.
Arkmx
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Arkmx 12/8/2011 5:33am
12/8/2011 5:33am Edited Date/Time 12/8/2011 9:48am
Why not have it an Open CC class?

What about the guys with old Dinosaurs and 500cc bikes or even 300cc bikes etc...?


.
Shawn142
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Shawn142 12/8/2011 5:47am
12/8/2011 5:47am
Arkmx wrote:
Why not have it an Open CC class?

What about the guys with old Dinosaurs and 500cc bikes or even 300cc bikes etc...?


.
It's just the first year of the class, lets see how it goes and hopefully they'll tweak it from there.
rocrac
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rocrac 12/8/2011 5:51am
12/8/2011 5:51am
wardy wrote:
hope it works ok, but the riders that ride smokers are mostly local level riders that like to race. be able to do it at a...
hope it works ok, but the riders that ride smokers are mostly local level riders that like to race. be able to do it at a reasonable price and not run all over the place to become program filler.

adding a "smoker" class and then throwing the 150's in with the 85's after all whats the point. 2 years from now people will be sitting around scratching thier heads wondering why the 85 class has lost a large percentage of it's ridership. at that point there will be only one place to point that finger.
Woah what did I miss did they really pass the rule allowing 150's with the 85s??? Really??? WTF???? After finally get equal displacement rules in the amatuer stuff now this???? Shake my head.
neysbo
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neysbo 12/8/2011 6:55am
12/8/2011 6:55am
wardy wrote:
hope it works ok, but the riders that ride smokers are mostly local level riders that like to race. be able to do it at a...
hope it works ok, but the riders that ride smokers are mostly local level riders that like to race. be able to do it at a reasonable price and not run all over the place to become program filler.

adding a "smoker" class and then throwing the 150's in with the 85's after all whats the point. 2 years from now people will be sitting around scratching thier heads wondering why the 85 class has lost a large percentage of it's ridership. at that point there will be only one place to point that finger.
rocrac wrote:
Woah what did I miss did they really pass the rule allowing 150's with the 85s??? Really??? WTF???? After finally get equal displacement rules in the...
Woah what did I miss did they really pass the rule allowing 150's with the 85s??? Really??? WTF???? After finally get equal displacement rules in the amatuer stuff now this???? Shake my head.
yes , MXSports is letting small wheel 150's in the 85- 12-14 stock and mod classes

I do not think most AMA distircts are though.

Gerhard- can a 150 now run in 85 senior in District 17
burn1986
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burn1986 12/8/2011 7:21am
12/8/2011 7:21am
I finally found a new song for DC: "I'm turning Japanese, I think I'm turning Japanese, I really think so. . . "
newmann
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newmann 12/8/2011 7:27am
12/8/2011 7:27am
Honda's paid advertisement of the CRF150 cup at the nationals appeared to be a flop from what I gathered. Now the 150 is legal for the 85 class? If amateur racing is cc/cc, does that mean KTM can now put a 150SX engine in the 85 chassis and homologate it for amateur?
DC
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DC 12/8/2011 7:27am
12/8/2011 7:27am
The only class I had anything to do with at Loretta Lynn's was adding the Two-Stroke class but now I'm getting....

Hell with it, no good deed goes unpunished.

DC
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loftyair
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loftyair 12/8/2011 7:33am
12/8/2011 7:33am
It's rare that the 150r beats an 85, only if the 85 is stock, and the kids aren't that good. A fast 85 is a better weapon.
mccread
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mccread 12/8/2011 7:36am
12/8/2011 7:36am
The 150 Honda fourstroke has been in the 85 schoolboys class for a few years here in the the UK....doesn't seem to make much difference. Ben Watson was the man to beat and he was on an 85 KTM two stoke.

Is it not like that in the US?
Kryan5
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Kryan5 12/8/2011 7:39am
12/8/2011 7:39am
Is it just me or does it kinda seem like "What Honda wants, Honda gets"! Either way i'm stoked about the 2 smoke class. Good on your DC. I am sure i have no chance at making it to the show, but gonna try!
burn1986
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burn1986 12/8/2011 7:42am
12/8/2011 7:42am
Soon the rules will change to 65cc 2-stroke to let Honda's CRF150 win.
rmgsxr
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rmgsxr 12/8/2011 7:43am
12/8/2011 7:43am
2012 KTM 50 SXS $4899.
2012 KTM 65 SXS $5199
2012 KTM 85 SXS $5899

2012 Honda CRF150R $4990

Somebody had better get to protesting KTM for killing the mini class racing. Price of that stuff is out of hand. And I can say from experience that I spent way more money racing KTM 50s than I did racing a CRF150R through a full season.


tuz371 is right. You can go racing pretty cheap if you want. But you can also go broke doing it. When the race numbers fell off the last few years it wasn't like everybody got rid of their bike overnight. But a lot of people lost their jobs overnight or didn't have the extra money to go racing anymore.
Shawn142
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Shawn142 12/8/2011 7:50am
12/8/2011 7:50am
mccread wrote:
The 150 Honda fourstroke has been in the 85 schoolboys class for a few years here in the the UK....doesn't seem to make much difference. Ben...
The 150 Honda fourstroke has been in the 85 schoolboys class for a few years here in the the UK....doesn't seem to make much difference. Ben Watson was the man to beat and he was on an 85 KTM two stoke.

Is it not like that in the US?
It's exactly like that here. The only guy up front on a 150 was Cooper Webb and now he's on big bikes. This will make almost no difference in the results, but don't tell that to the guys who don't even go to these races and have a 2-stroke chip on their shoulder.

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click click bang bang 12/8/2011 7:54am
12/8/2011 7:54am
mccread wrote:
The 150 Honda fourstroke has been in the 85 schoolboys class for a few years here in the the UK....doesn't seem to make much difference. Ben...
The 150 Honda fourstroke has been in the 85 schoolboys class for a few years here in the the UK....doesn't seem to make much difference. Ben Watson was the man to beat and he was on an 85 KTM two stoke.

Is it not like that in the US?
Shawn142 wrote:
It's exactly like that here. The only guy up front on a 150 was Cooper Webb and now he's on big bikes. This will make almost...
It's exactly like that here. The only guy up front on a 150 was Cooper Webb and now he's on big bikes. This will make almost no difference in the results, but don't tell that to the guys who don't even go to these races and have a 2-stroke chip on their shoulder.
That's supermini.
burn1986
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burn1986 12/8/2011 8:00am
12/8/2011 8:00am
Shawn142 wrote:
It's exactly like that here. The only guy up front on a 150 was Cooper Webb and now he's on big bikes. This will make almost...
It's exactly like that here. The only guy up front on a 150 was Cooper Webb and now he's on big bikes. This will make almost no difference in the results, but don't tell that to the guys who don't even go to these races and have a 2-stroke chip on their shoulder.
Well, now this thread got interesting, since the moderator showed up. I don't think any of us have a chip on our shoulder, it's just that if you mention anything 2-stroke, everyone gets bent out of shape, cause it's not politically correct anymore.
Mspicer
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Mspicer 12/8/2011 8:00am
12/8/2011 8:00am Edited Date/Time 12/8/2011 8:01am
rmgsxr wrote:
2012 KTM 50 SXS $4899. 2012 KTM 65 SXS $5199 2012 KTM 85 SXS $5899 2012 Honda CRF150R $4990 Somebody had better get to protesting KTM...
2012 KTM 50 SXS $4899.
2012 KTM 65 SXS $5199
2012 KTM 85 SXS $5899

2012 Honda CRF150R $4990

Somebody had better get to protesting KTM for killing the mini class racing. Price of that stuff is out of hand. And I can say from experience that I spent way more money racing KTM 50s than I did racing a CRF150R through a full season.


tuz371 is right. You can go racing pretty cheap if you want. But you can also go broke doing it. When the race numbers fell off the last few years it wasn't like everybody got rid of their bike overnight. But a lot of people lost their jobs overnight or didn't have the extra money to go racing anymore.
I bought an 09' crf150r for $3650.00 out the door and then bought a used 08' for $2100.00. You do not have to buy a new 2012 because they are basically the same. And yes, KTM is the one making this sport so expensive at the mini level. We rode KTM from the beggining and yes it was way more expensive to run the 50's class for almost 5 years. I even spent the $4500 on a new 65, that my son rode for 9 months. What a waste. I understand the supply and demand side with exchange rate implications, but if people think that the 150r is going to change the mini dynamics, than you must have gotten to this point relatively unscathed financially because it is the 50's and 65 classes that can break a familly.
neysbo
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neysbo 12/8/2011 8:44am
12/8/2011 8:44am
loftyair wrote:
It's rare that the 150r beats an 85, only if the 85 is stock, and the kids aren't that good. A fast 85 is a better...
It's rare that the 150r beats an 85, only if the 85 is stock, and the kids aren't that good. A fast 85 is a better weapon.
Cooper Webbs 150 ran as strong or stronger than full mod super minis.

It does not take much to make the 150's rip for the mod class
Motodrew295
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Motodrew295 12/8/2011 9:15am
12/8/2011 9:15am
Kryan5 wrote:
Is it just me or does it kinda seem like "What Honda wants, Honda gets"! Either way i'm stoked about the 2 smoke class. Good on...
Is it just me or does it kinda seem like "What Honda wants, Honda gets"! Either way i'm stoked about the 2 smoke class. Good on your DC. I am sure i have no chance at making it to the show, but gonna try!
That's all that matters if you TRY. MX Sports' pockets are getting lined with or without you at Loretta's. That organization is so money hungry and politically influenced its atrocious.
newmann
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newmann 12/8/2011 9:33am
12/8/2011 9:33am
Kryan5 wrote:
Is it just me or does it kinda seem like "What Honda wants, Honda gets"! Either way i'm stoked about the 2 smoke class. Good on...
Is it just me or does it kinda seem like "What Honda wants, Honda gets"! Either way i'm stoked about the 2 smoke class. Good on your DC. I am sure i have no chance at making it to the show, but gonna try!
Motodrew295 wrote:
That's all that matters if you TRY. MX Sports' pockets are getting lined with or without you at Loretta's. That organization is so money hungry and...
That's all that matters if you TRY. MX Sports' pockets are getting lined with or without you at Loretta's. That organization is so money hungry and politically influenced its atrocious.
Well before you guys draw a bead on DC's forehead, remember that the AMA is still the one making the rules according to Joe Bromley. Betting they were the ones restructuring the class for the CRF150, DC even alluded to that. DC pushed through a class for the two strokes, I can appreciate that. Might not be what I would want to see, but I'm not really involved in racing to any degree. Mostly just a longtime fan of the sport who doesn't like the direction it has taken.
queen of spodes 12/8/2011 10:57am
12/8/2011 10:57am
DC wrote:
The only class I had anything to do with at Loretta Lynn's was adding the Two-Stroke class but now I'm getting.... Hell with it, no good...
The only class I had anything to do with at Loretta Lynn's was adding the Two-Stroke class but now I'm getting....

Hell with it, no good deed goes unpunished.

DC
MX Sports
Why are you so sensitive over what the boards think of you? Add the new class, see how it goes and if popular expand from there. If nobody shows up, drop it. Hell make all the two strokes illegal for racing - who cares. You are the boss with LL.

You seem to keep coming back here for the drama, and it takes two to tango.

Wish there was a better way of having rational debates on the web, but I think you are letting this shit bother you too much.
mxvet89
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mxvet89 12/8/2011 11:56am
12/8/2011 11:56am
I love two strokes as much or more than anybody. 250cc two strokes were already legal to ride in 250 and 450 classes. Schoolboy 1 was already a two stroke class. I dont see the value in adding a 16+ two stroke class when the 45+ and 50+ are splitting a gate as well as the two girls classes. It would have made more sense to separate the +45 and +50 or the two younger girl classes. I'm just saying...
DC
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DC 12/8/2011 12:11pm
12/8/2011 12:11pm
Queen, you're right.

The Two-Stroke class is now there. I hope everyone who wanted it comes out and races it, or at least supports it.

DC
MX Sports
sc961
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sc961 12/8/2011 1:20pm
12/8/2011 1:20pm
DC wrote:
Guys, ever think that maybe the economy might have something to do with the lack of mini racers?

DC
MX Sports
Yes for sure.

That, and the cost of a 50 going from $799 to $5,000 hasn't helped bring new riders to the sport either..
smoothmf
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smoothmf 7/10/2012 9:28pm
7/10/2012 9:28pm
CAN'T AFFORD A $8700 MACHINE IN TODAY'S ECONOMY! When I started racing the local tracks the Beginner Class had to run two Beginner Races because you could only fit 40 riders on the starting line. Todays Beginner Class at my local track has maybe 20 riders on the starting line. A good 2-stroke will cost 'ya about $1500 to $2000 compared to about $5000 and up for a decent 4-Stroke.
smoothmf
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smoothmf 7/10/2012 9:33pm
7/10/2012 9:33pm Edited Date/Time 7/10/2012 9:35pm
DC wrote:
Guys, ever think that maybe the economy might have something to do with the lack of mini racers?

DC
MX Sports
I remember racing in the 80's and there'd be about 1000 racers at my local track, on a wet rainy day! Hell, the beginner class had to run two to three beginner classes cause of high turnout. Today the Beginner Class has maybe 20 to 25 guys on the starting line!Think it has alot to do with cost.... about $1500 for a good race bike then, compared to todays $8700.....

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