Should the AMA....

Spinner
Posts
3198
Joined
8/1/2006
Location
Fayettenam, AR US
Edited Date/Time 1/26/2012 10:18am
...start fining riders who can't abide by the blue flags?
|
bellmx228
Posts
48
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Unadilla, NY US
2/21/2010 11:01pm Edited Date/Time 2/21/2010 11:01pm
Not necessarily monetarily, but there should definitely be some form of repercussion.
Kinetic1
Posts
2796
Joined
6/4/2009
Location
Gun Lake, MI US
2/22/2010 2:42am Edited Date/Time 2/22/2010 4:00am
Absolutely. If they are repeat offenders or it is blatantly obvious they are trying to be an impedence to the leaders. Chisholm should be booted for a weekend......or two.
mxr102
Posts
1045
Joined
5/18/2009
Location
Waterloo, IA US
2/22/2010 3:50am
Chisolm would run out of money if thats the case he never listens to them. I think it would be a good idea.
NetMXer
Posts
582
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Woodstock, VA US
2/22/2010 4:53am
Just get rid of the blue flags and put shocker collars on the riders. If they get in the way of the leaders, then zap them.

The Shop

rileymx
Posts
943
Joined
10/24/2007
Location
Azores islands PT
2/22/2010 4:55am
i think that ama should start by the yellow flags...........
from what i see in tv and videos this year, flags are the least thing in the riders minds
Crush
Posts
20962
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
2/22/2010 5:10am
A lot of those privateers prolly can't afford the fines... But something has to be done... Drop em a position? But then it becomes a judgement call and the AMA doesn't have a great record with those...
toddh
Posts
354
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
IN US
2/22/2010 5:16am
It cost Sipes a podium for sure.
Spinner
Posts
3198
Joined
8/1/2006
Location
Fayettenam, AR US
2/22/2010 5:56am
rileymx wrote:
i think that ama should start by the yellow flags........... from what i see in tv and videos this year, flags are the least thing in...
i think that ama should start by the yellow flags...........
from what i see in tv and videos this year, flags are the least thing in the riders minds
Explain.
500guy
Posts
12478
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
AZ US
2/22/2010 6:19am
Spinner wrote:
...start fining riders who can't abide by the blue flags?
absolutely

riders who make lots of money need a fine and docked points.

Privateers need to get fined but maybe not as heavy.

This whole lapper deal is getting ridiculous.
Shenzi
Posts
2584
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
SWFL, FL US
Fantasy
1233rd
2/22/2010 6:33am
rileymx wrote:
i think that ama should start by the yellow flags........... from what i see in tv and videos this year, flags are the least thing in...
i think that ama should start by the yellow flags...........
from what i see in tv and videos this year, flags are the least thing in the riders minds
before they start fining or penalizing riders on yellow flags, they need to have professional flaggers or stronger training. Yellow flaggers were a joke at Indy SX. Flagging too late, flagging from a position not visible by the riders, flagging 4 turns ahead of a guy putting a tuf box back (outside of the track and no factor to track safety), still flagging 30 seconds after incident is gone and other flaggers have put it down, etc, etc.

Result, some riders (mostly the fastest ones) don't always respect yellow immediately, or don't always trust that there's a dangerous situation ahead, especially when they have visibility.
huck
Posts
17017
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Mountain Home, AR US
2/22/2010 6:36am
1st offense...1 week suspension
2nd offense...1 year suspension
Sparkalounger
Posts
1320
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Minneapolis, MN US
2/22/2010 6:48am
rileymx wrote:
i think that ama should start by the yellow flags........... from what i see in tv and videos this year, flags are the least thing in...
i think that ama should start by the yellow flags...........
from what i see in tv and videos this year, flags are the least thing in the riders minds
Shenzi wrote:
before they start fining or penalizing riders on yellow flags, they need to have professional flaggers or stronger training. Yellow flaggers were a joke at Indy...
before they start fining or penalizing riders on yellow flags, they need to have professional flaggers or stronger training. Yellow flaggers were a joke at Indy SX. Flagging too late, flagging from a position not visible by the riders, flagging 4 turns ahead of a guy putting a tuf box back (outside of the track and no factor to track safety), still flagging 30 seconds after incident is gone and other flaggers have put it down, etc, etc.

Result, some riders (mostly the fastest ones) don't always respect yellow immediately, or don't always trust that there's a dangerous situation ahead, especially when they have visibility.
bingo
2/22/2010 6:54am
In SX it is within the rules for the riders to jump and pass on yellow flags.
Highsider
Posts
7680
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Way Toasty, IA US
2/22/2010 6:56am
NetMXer wrote:
Just get rid of the blue flags and put shocker collars on the riders. If they get in the way of the leaders, then zap them.
WINNER!Laughing


Thanks for a great Monday laugh!
lumpy790
Posts
9253
Joined
9/18/2007
Location
York, SC US
2/22/2010 7:04am
There is a lot of gray area to the rules. A rider can hold his line and that is what most riders do.

b. Warning Flags
1. Yellow Flag:
Waving Yellow Flag: Indicates serious hazard on or near the
track.
• Passing is allowed
• Proceed with extreme caution.
2. Solid Blue Flag :
• Indicates you are about to be overtaken by faster
riders.
• When conditions allow, move out of the fast line.
• Hold your line (don’t ride erratically) and do not
impede the faster riders progress.
• Riders disregarding this flag may be black-flagged at
the discretion of Race Director.
lumpy790
Posts
9253
Joined
9/18/2007
Location
York, SC US
2/22/2010 7:06am Edited Date/Time 2/22/2010 7:06am
After attending Indy I now understand why riders ignore the yellow flag. When someone is re-aranging the tough blocks they throw the yellow flags in the section .....and there is no riders down.
Friday
Posts
2773
Joined
9/10/2007
Location
Playa Del Rey, CA US
2/22/2010 7:55am
I say dock them a position. Because I believe that is why Chisolm is doing what he is doing.To take advantage of the other lapper in front of him.He gains on the rider he is battling with because that rider holds a line and allows the race to pass. Chisolm stays in the "race" line at race speed and gains an advantage on his competitor while hampering the real race at the same time.JMO of course.
Regis
Posts
2693
Joined
6/17/2008
Location
Gonzales, LA US
Fantasy
340th
2/22/2010 8:12am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 8:56pm
I cannot comment on Chisholm because I did not see the Indy SX. But I can comment from the perspective of being a lapped rider in a SX race because I believe I have more experience than any of you at being lapped in a SX race. Smile Trust me I am a proffesor at this, I actually have a doctorate in this subject.

There are A LOT of things you guys are not thinking about when when being lapped. You can't just stop, pull over, or change your line. Matter of fact, doing any of those could get yourself killed as well as the faster rider. The rule is you are supposed to hold your line and it is the responsibility of the faster rider to get around YOU. I know, I know a lot of you aren't going to believe me and tell me I am wrong.

You can't expect ANYBODY in a race to just give up when being lapped, They are racing just like everybode else for every point and every dollar.

Lappers have been a part of the sport since it's inception. It is a part of racing and if you are going to start fining racers for racing then you should just start having time trials and match races to get rid of the probelm.

huck
Posts
17017
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Mountain Home, AR US
2/22/2010 8:13am
How could they make the tracks longer? If they add more jumps, people will bitch that it's too dangerous... They can only work with the amount of floor space that is provided...
txmxer
Posts
9770
Joined
8/21/2006
Location
Weatherford, TX US
2/22/2010 8:15am
Chisholm didn't change the outcome of the race IMO. RD had his opportunity to catch up to RV and he didn't.

Regarding Sipes, where would you have had the lapper go? The fast line/race line was generically the outside line. The lapper was on the inside. Not sure he could have done anything other than what he did.

I agree that lappers shouldn't intentionally interfere with the race and should definitely make a reasonable effort to get out of the way, but, that's it. There wasn't a lot that could have reasonably been done different at Indy.
Regis
Posts
2693
Joined
6/17/2008
Location
Gonzales, LA US
Fantasy
340th
2/22/2010 8:16am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 8:56pm
Friday wrote:
I say dock them a position. Because I believe that is why Chisolm is doing what he is doing.To take advantage of the other lapper in...
I say dock them a position. Because I believe that is why Chisolm is doing what he is doing.To take advantage of the other lapper in front of him.He gains on the rider he is battling with because that rider holds a line and allows the race to pass. Chisolm stays in the "race" line at race speed and gains an advantage on his competitor while hampering the real race at the same time.JMO of course.
If I said I never did this, I would be lieing.

At least to maybe get closer to the guy ahead of me. Of course, sometimes when you are out there just rolling around you don;t, but when your in a heated battle it happens.... Just being honest.
lumpy790
Posts
9253
Joined
9/18/2007
Location
York, SC US
2/22/2010 8:19am
As a mechanic I told my riders not to pull over but to use it to his advantage if the rider he was racing with hesitated.......the person lapping him was fast enough he will get around you.

Flame on!
500guy
Posts
12478
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
AZ US
2/22/2010 8:20am
Regis wrote:
I cannot comment on Chisholm because I did not see the Indy SX. But I can comment from the perspective of being a lapped rider in...
I cannot comment on Chisholm because I did not see the Indy SX. But I can comment from the perspective of being a lapped rider in a SX race because I believe I have more experience than any of you at being lapped in a SX race. Smile Trust me I am a proffesor at this, I actually have a doctorate in this subject.

There are A LOT of things you guys are not thinking about when when being lapped. You can't just stop, pull over, or change your line. Matter of fact, doing any of those could get yourself killed as well as the faster rider. The rule is you are supposed to hold your line and it is the responsibility of the faster rider to get around YOU. I know, I know a lot of you aren't going to believe me and tell me I am wrong.

You can't expect ANYBODY in a race to just give up when being lapped, They are racing just like everybode else for every point and every dollar.

Lappers have been a part of the sport since it's inception. It is a part of racing and if you are going to start fining racers for racing then you should just start having time trials and match races to get rid of the probelm.

I agree with most of this, however as a fan I want to see good racing for the lead or top 5 not some dude being lapped causing either the leader to be caught or the guy behind to lose touch with the lead.

Something needs to be done.
lumpy790
Posts
9253
Joined
9/18/2007
Location
York, SC US
2/22/2010 8:20am
I guess RD did not lap J-Law........Woohoo
Regis
Posts
2693
Joined
6/17/2008
Location
Gonzales, LA US
Fantasy
340th
2/22/2010 8:31am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 8:56pm
Regis wrote:
I cannot comment on Chisholm because I did not see the Indy SX. But I can comment from the perspective of being a lapped rider in...
I cannot comment on Chisholm because I did not see the Indy SX. But I can comment from the perspective of being a lapped rider in a SX race because I believe I have more experience than any of you at being lapped in a SX race. Smile Trust me I am a proffesor at this, I actually have a doctorate in this subject.

There are A LOT of things you guys are not thinking about when when being lapped. You can't just stop, pull over, or change your line. Matter of fact, doing any of those could get yourself killed as well as the faster rider. The rule is you are supposed to hold your line and it is the responsibility of the faster rider to get around YOU. I know, I know a lot of you aren't going to believe me and tell me I am wrong.

You can't expect ANYBODY in a race to just give up when being lapped, They are racing just like everybode else for every point and every dollar.

Lappers have been a part of the sport since it's inception. It is a part of racing and if you are going to start fining racers for racing then you should just start having time trials and match races to get rid of the probelm.

500guy wrote:
I agree with most of this, however as a fan I want to see good racing for the lead or top 5 not some dude being...
I agree with most of this, however as a fan I want to see good racing for the lead or top 5 not some dude being lapped causing either the leader to be caught or the guy behind to lose touch with the lead.

Something needs to be done.
Yeah, I remember in the 86 Anaheim race, I cried all the way home (I was 8) because Burnworth impeded RJ's race with Bailey. Smile

But Jay, you know that as long as there people are going to be lapped, there are going to be potential problems. Maybe a 8 rider main event?

Believe it or not, I think racing would become more BORING without lappers. Imagine if the leaders had a clear track ALL THE TIME?

A lot of the times, the guy in second is only getting to "make it a race" because the first guy encounters lappers first and has to alter his line which allows the frontrunners to tighten up. Maybe not in this instance, but others.
500guy
Posts
12478
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
AZ US
2/22/2010 8:33am
Regis wrote:
I cannot comment on Chisholm because I did not see the Indy SX. But I can comment from the perspective of being a lapped rider in...
I cannot comment on Chisholm because I did not see the Indy SX. But I can comment from the perspective of being a lapped rider in a SX race because I believe I have more experience than any of you at being lapped in a SX race. Smile Trust me I am a proffesor at this, I actually have a doctorate in this subject.

There are A LOT of things you guys are not thinking about when when being lapped. You can't just stop, pull over, or change your line. Matter of fact, doing any of those could get yourself killed as well as the faster rider. The rule is you are supposed to hold your line and it is the responsibility of the faster rider to get around YOU. I know, I know a lot of you aren't going to believe me and tell me I am wrong.

You can't expect ANYBODY in a race to just give up when being lapped, They are racing just like everybode else for every point and every dollar.

Lappers have been a part of the sport since it's inception. It is a part of racing and if you are going to start fining racers for racing then you should just start having time trials and match races to get rid of the probelm.

500guy wrote:
I agree with most of this, however as a fan I want to see good racing for the lead or top 5 not some dude being...
I agree with most of this, however as a fan I want to see good racing for the lead or top 5 not some dude being lapped causing either the leader to be caught or the guy behind to lose touch with the lead.

Something needs to be done.
Regis wrote:
Yeah, I remember in the 86 Anaheim race, I cried all the way home (I was 8) because Burnworth impeded RJ's race with Bailey. But Jay...
Yeah, I remember in the 86 Anaheim race, I cried all the way home (I was 8) because Burnworth impeded RJ's race with Bailey. Smile

But Jay, you know that as long as there people are going to be lapped, there are going to be potential problems. Maybe a 8 rider main event?

Believe it or not, I think racing would become more BORING without lappers. Imagine if the leaders had a clear track ALL THE TIME?

A lot of the times, the guy in second is only getting to "make it a race" because the first guy encounters lappers first and has to alter his line which allows the frontrunners to tighten up. Maybe not in this instance, but others.
I agree with that too. Not sure there is a viable solution.
wardy
Posts
1765
Joined
3/31/2008
Location
US
2/22/2010 8:34am
Regis, you are absolutely correct.

with that said.

build a friggin track that isn't one line. that ridicolous corner section before the whoops was what???? the dozer crew had one to many and din't line up the track lanes, and realized it on friday morning?

lappers in the way is part of racing, not just SX. But moving around on a track to "get out of the way:" and doing that irratically is a great way to have a rider use your back as a landing ramp.

Indy's track had no flow, it was the first race in the series that was inside and shorter.

longer lap times would be great but is there really enough room in a stadium?
Regis
Posts
2693
Joined
6/17/2008
Location
Gonzales, LA US
Fantasy
340th
2/22/2010 8:38am
I have a solution, make it like "death race" if you get lapped you get killed by some gruesome rocket, or fireball, or archer in the stands. That way it will be a CRAZY race just to not get killed!

Of course, the reward for not getting lapped would have to be greater than the grand or so for last. Make it the reward be like, freedom, the ability to see your family again, or 21 virgins after the race.
typ2vw159
Posts
1003
Joined
10/4/2007
Location
Mototown, CA US
2/22/2010 8:39am
With out tailenders we would have 10 per gate at a main?
TeamGreen
Posts
28978
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA US
2/22/2010 8:40am
Spinner wrote:
...start fining riders who can't abide by the blue flags?
Not really...

Everyone here has a bug up their ass about Kyle this week; however, they might want to look at Dungey's statements before they go reacting like a Congressman.

This is RACING. It ain't Golf.

I'm jus' sayin'...

Post a reply to: Should the AMA....

The Latest