Schoolboy 2 class (MX sports)

MotoX85
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4/9/2014 9:35am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2014 4:31am
Why is MX sports going against the AMA with classes but yet they are claiming that their races are AMA sanctioned.

Why can a 250 2 stroke run in the A, B and C 250cc classes but they are not allowed in the Schoolboy 2 class, (only in MXsports races).

School boy 1 is 125cc 2t and 150cc 4f. Then the jump to Schoolboy 2 is add 25cc's for the 2 stroke (150) and add 100cc's for the 4 stroke. This makes no sense.

Even though the AMA rules say a 250 2 stoke can run in the Schoolboy 2 class, MX sports does not allow it.

Also, they have changed the name of the 85 sr class to Mini sr class so they can let the Honda 150 run in the class even though the AMA still will not let the 150 run with 85s

If this isn't Honda paying someone off, I do not know what is.

Mr Coombs, care to explain?
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DC
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4/9/2014 10:02am
No, not when you place your question after an dumb statement like that.

Maybe the AMA's Kip Bigelow, MX Sports' Tim Cotter or any of the six manufacturers that were present at the rules meeting that takes place at Loretta Lynn's would be glad to explain it to you.

DC
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Jakes Dad
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4/9/2014 11:17am
I thought it was a good question...that is until he had to put his spin on it. My kid races both and it would have been nice to have known before I invested in a 150cc motor.

Here's my take after 30 years of racing from MX to NHRA to Karts and no back with my kid in MX.
NHRA racing in our sportsman class required mufflers and there was only 2 manufactures who had these type to run at the track. Well of course these 2 companies "sponsored" a couple of classes for NHRA. Funny thing is right after our class ran up came the fuel cars 8000hp with the zoomie headers.

You just learn to go with the flow and appreciate who is participating in the sport you have chosen.
DC
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4/9/2014 11:34am Edited Date/Time 4/9/2014 12:04pm
Jake's dad, thanks for the note. For the record, Honda does not sponsor Loretta Lynn's but they had as much input on the class structure as Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki, KTM and Cobra. The Schoolboy classes are meant as stepping stones to transition kids from minis to big bikes, and I'm pretty sure that's why they don't allow 250cc two-strokes in that group in either class.

Please send any questions you have on these classes or any other Loretta Lynn's rules to:

TCotter@mxsports.com (Tim Cotter)
KBigelow@ama-cycle.org (Kip Bigelow)

DC
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MotoX85
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4/9/2014 3:26pm
DC wrote:
Jake's dad, thanks for the note. For the record, Honda does not sponsor Loretta Lynn's but they had as much input on the class structure as...
Jake's dad, thanks for the note. For the record, Honda does not sponsor Loretta Lynn's but they had as much input on the class structure as Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki, KTM and Cobra. The Schoolboy classes are meant as stepping stones to transition kids from minis to big bikes, and I'm pretty sure that's why they don't allow 250cc two-strokes in that group in either class.

Please send any questions you have on these classes or any other Loretta Lynn's rules to:

TCotter@mxsports.com (Tim Cotter)
KBigelow@ama-cycle.org (Kip Bigelow)

DC
MX Sports
My spin, what spin. Just facts.

So the 250C (beginner class) is not a stepping stone class?, they allow 250 2 strokes.

The AMA schoolboy class ALLOWS 250 2 Stroke, MX sports does not.

No need to ask Kip, they allow 250 2strokes, and asking you is better than asking Tim Cotter, you are more in charge of MXsports than he is.

"Honda does not sponsor Lorettas"...............but there is a nice paragraph about how great Honda's are at the beginning of every article in Racer X online.

Instead of diverting to name calling, just answer the topic.

Speaking of stepping stone, there are no less then 5 manufactures that make 125's but yet no 125 B or C class under 16. However only one brand makes a 150 4 stroke and there are NOW 5 classes for that bike to run in, with a slight name change and 1 yr age difference.

I will send these questions to Mr Cotter also.

The Shop

Regis
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4/9/2014 3:34pm
This is one of those threads that no matter how it is answered, somebody has already made up their mind it isn't going to be a good answer.
GuyB
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4/9/2014 3:40pm Edited Date/Time 4/9/2014 3:42pm
MotoX85 wrote:
My spin, what spin. Just facts. So the 250C (beginner class) is not a stepping stone class?, they allow 250 2 strokes. The AMA schoolboy class...
My spin, what spin. Just facts.

So the 250C (beginner class) is not a stepping stone class?, they allow 250 2 strokes.

The AMA schoolboy class ALLOWS 250 2 Stroke, MX sports does not.

No need to ask Kip, they allow 250 2strokes, and asking you is better than asking Tim Cotter, you are more in charge of MXsports than he is.

"Honda does not sponsor Lorettas"...............but there is a nice paragraph about how great Honda's are at the beginning of every article in Racer X online.

Instead of diverting to name calling, just answer the topic.

Speaking of stepping stone, there are no less then 5 manufactures that make 125's but yet no 125 B or C class under 16. However only one brand makes a 150 4 stroke and there are NOW 5 classes for that bike to run in, with a slight name change and 1 yr age difference.

I will send these questions to Mr Cotter also.
How about just asking nicely?

Which five manufacturers currently make a 125?
DC
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4/9/2014 3:45pm
Motox85, the 250 C class is not an age category, like Schoolboy; it's for riders who have never been to a national-level competition. They are not restricted to being 16 and under. When I say "stepping stone" I don't mean in talent but in motorcycle size -- it's tough for some kids to go from an 85 to a 250F. I am not sure why the AMA allows a 250cc two-stroke in a schoolboy class locally, that's something that the congress passed, but there's a supplemental rule for the national, and there are full gates of entries in both Schoolboy classes without adding 250cc two-strokes.

And I didn't call you a name, I said you made a dumb statement. I don't make up the rules, it's done in harmony between MX Sports and the AMA, with input from the OEMs and other industry parties that support amateur motocross racing.

As for Honda sponsoring one column on the Racer X website, you do realize that every manufacturer advertises somewhere on Racer X Online, or Racer X Illustrated, and they all participate in the decision-making, right? If you think we changed a rule because Honda sponsors the magazine's website, you're just plain wrong.

I am sorry that you don't agree with the rules. They don't always work out the way every individual would like, but for the vast majority they do work.

DC
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kzizok
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4/9/2014 4:05pm
GuyB wrote:
How about just asking nicely?

Which five manufacturers currently make a 125?
I can only come up with four. Yam, KTM, Husky, and TM.
DC
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4/9/2014 4:09pm
I'm not sure that Husky nor TM are homologated according to AMA rules, that would also be a question for KBigelow@ama-cycle.org

DC
MX Sports
Squid-mom
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4/9/2014 7:13pm
How about a 'schoolboy' class for riders that actually go to school- that would be an interesting concept.
burn1986
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4/9/2014 7:49pm
The AMA is so clear on these things Dizzy
kzizok
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4/9/2014 8:10pm
DC wrote:
I'm not sure that Husky nor TM are homologated according to AMA rules, that would also be a question for KBigelow@ama-cycle.org

DC
MX Sports
Yeah, I considered that but I was stuck on trying to figure out the fifth OEM of a two stroke.
Jim Morrison
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4/9/2014 8:13pm
DC wrote:
Motox85, the 250 C class is not an age category, like Schoolboy; it's for riders who have never been to a national-level competition. They are not...
Motox85, the 250 C class is not an age category, like Schoolboy; it's for riders who have never been to a national-level competition. They are not restricted to being 16 and under. When I say "stepping stone" I don't mean in talent but in motorcycle size -- it's tough for some kids to go from an 85 to a 250F. I am not sure why the AMA allows a 250cc two-stroke in a schoolboy class locally, that's something that the congress passed, but there's a supplemental rule for the national, and there are full gates of entries in both Schoolboy classes without adding 250cc two-strokes.

And I didn't call you a name, I said you made a dumb statement. I don't make up the rules, it's done in harmony between MX Sports and the AMA, with input from the OEMs and other industry parties that support amateur motocross racing.

As for Honda sponsoring one column on the Racer X website, you do realize that every manufacturer advertises somewhere on Racer X Online, or Racer X Illustrated, and they all participate in the decision-making, right? If you think we changed a rule because Honda sponsors the magazine's website, you're just plain wrong.

I am sorry that you don't agree with the rules. They don't always work out the way every individual would like, but for the vast majority they do work.

DC
MX Sports
DC,

First of all I think the post creator is an idiot and I agree with you on your position. I also had another question, and wondered if green lasers will be allowed for use by parents in the school boy 2 class this year?

Thanks!!!
hillbilly
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4/9/2014 8:23pm
DC wrote:
Motox85, the 250 C class is not an age category, like Schoolboy; it's for riders who have never been to a national-level competition. They are not...
Motox85, the 250 C class is not an age category, like Schoolboy; it's for riders who have never been to a national-level competition. They are not restricted to being 16 and under. When I say "stepping stone" I don't mean in talent but in motorcycle size -- it's tough for some kids to go from an 85 to a 250F. I am not sure why the AMA allows a 250cc two-stroke in a schoolboy class locally, that's something that the congress passed, but there's a supplemental rule for the national, and there are full gates of entries in both Schoolboy classes without adding 250cc two-strokes.

And I didn't call you a name, I said you made a dumb statement. I don't make up the rules, it's done in harmony between MX Sports and the AMA, with input from the OEMs and other industry parties that support amateur motocross racing.

As for Honda sponsoring one column on the Racer X website, you do realize that every manufacturer advertises somewhere on Racer X Online, or Racer X Illustrated, and they all participate in the decision-making, right? If you think we changed a rule because Honda sponsors the magazine's website, you're just plain wrong.

I am sorry that you don't agree with the rules. They don't always work out the way every individual would like, but for the vast majority they do work.

DC
MX Sports
DC, First of all I think the post creator is an idiot and I agree with you on your position. I also had another question, and...
DC,

First of all I think the post creator is an idiot and I agree with you on your position. I also had another question, and wondered if green lasers will be allowed for use by parents in the school boy 2 class this year?

Thanks!!!
The killer awoke before dawn, he put his boots on,

He took a face from the ancient gallery and he,

Walked on down the hall then, and he came to a door,,,

He looked inside,,father? Yes son, I want to kill you,,
al711
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4/9/2014 8:31pm
This is the End.
Vet57
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hillbilly wrote:
The killer awoke before dawn, he put his boots on, He took a face from the ancient gallery and he, Walked on down the hall then...
The killer awoke before dawn, he put his boots on,

He took a face from the ancient gallery and he,

Walked on down the hall then, and he came to a door,,,

He looked inside,,father? Yes son, I want to kill you,,
Brilliant!
Jakes Dad
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4/10/2014 5:28am
Squid-mom wrote:
How about a 'schoolboy' class for riders that actually go to school- that would be an interesting concept.
Good one!!! LOL

Jake is too much of a social butterfly to live at a training facility. He's accepted the pecking order in which he runs at the races and is out there to have fun and show he won't embarrass himself with his peers.
MotoX85
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4/10/2014 5:43am
DC wrote:
Motox85, the 250 C class is not an age category, like Schoolboy; it's for riders who have never been to a national-level competition. They are not...
Motox85, the 250 C class is not an age category, like Schoolboy; it's for riders who have never been to a national-level competition. They are not restricted to being 16 and under. When I say "stepping stone" I don't mean in talent but in motorcycle size -- it's tough for some kids to go from an 85 to a 250F. I am not sure why the AMA allows a 250cc two-stroke in a schoolboy class locally, that's something that the congress passed, but there's a supplemental rule for the national, and there are full gates of entries in both Schoolboy classes without adding 250cc two-strokes.

And I didn't call you a name, I said you made a dumb statement. I don't make up the rules, it's done in harmony between MX Sports and the AMA, with input from the OEMs and other industry parties that support amateur motocross racing.

As for Honda sponsoring one column on the Racer X website, you do realize that every manufacturer advertises somewhere on Racer X Online, or Racer X Illustrated, and they all participate in the decision-making, right? If you think we changed a rule because Honda sponsors the magazine's website, you're just plain wrong.

I am sorry that you don't agree with the rules. They don't always work out the way every individual would like, but for the vast majority they do work.

DC
MX Sports
DC, First of all I think the post creator is an idiot and I agree with you on your position. I also had another question, and...
DC,

First of all I think the post creator is an idiot and I agree with you on your position. I also had another question, and wondered if green lasers will be allowed for use by parents in the school boy 2 class this year?

Thanks!!!
Need I say more. Unlucky for us, the after birth won. Just give it a minute, someone of lesser education will start the internet UFC, funny how I never have that problem when they are standing beside me.
MotoX85
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4/10/2014 5:53am
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSFyvUJ-0CwD-wOM2K…

Did Gas Gas stop making this. Not sure if the picture loaded but it is basically a Gas Gas 125.

Doesn't Suzuki still make them, but only imports to Europe.

Fantic makes a 125 with a Gas Gas motor

There are you answers Guy B, I thought my original post was very nice, I didn't call anyone DUMB or an IDIOT.

GrapeApe
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4/10/2014 6:17am
Somewhere a 17 year old boy with a Gas Gas 125 sits in his garage crying, because there is no 125C class for him to race at LL's. DC, fix this! Think of the GasGas 125 owners!
MotoX85
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4/10/2014 6:58am
GrapeApe wrote:
Somewhere a 17 year old boy with a Gas Gas 125 sits in his garage crying, because there is no 125C class for him to race...
Somewhere a 17 year old boy with a Gas Gas 125 sits in his garage crying, because there is no 125C class for him to race at LL's. DC, fix this! Think of the GasGas 125 owners!
The question was asked, and the question was answered.
Matt Fisher
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4/10/2014 11:44am
MotoX85 wrote:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSFyvUJ-0CwD-wOM2KXlW3cWHRYFDWPA6mMyaXB_ATmOeKYcwXi Did Gas Gas stop making this. Not sure if the picture loaded but it is basically a Gas Gas 125. Doesn't Suzuki still make them...
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSFyvUJ-0CwD-wOM2K…

Did Gas Gas stop making this. Not sure if the picture loaded but it is basically a Gas Gas 125.

Doesn't Suzuki still make them, but only imports to Europe.

Fantic makes a 125 with a Gas Gas motor

There are you answers Guy B, I thought my original post was very nice, I didn't call anyone DUMB or an IDIOT.

I believe Kawi and Suzuki both make 125 racers (that have remained largely unchanged since the mid 2000's), but do not import them into the U.S.
burn1986
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4/10/2014 12:53pm Edited Date/Time 4/10/2014 12:56pm
GuyB wrote:
How about just asking nicely?

Which five manufacturers currently make a 125?
kzizok wrote:
I can only come up with four. Yam, KTM, Husky, and TM.
Good counting. How many make a 150 4-stroke? "How many classes for each, comparatively?" is what the OP meant.

The ol DC bandwagon rides again, eh Grape?
scott_nz
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4/10/2014 12:59pm
I believe Kawi and Suzuki both make 125 racers (that have remained largely unchanged since the mid 2000's), but do not import them into the U.S.
Kawasaki stopped importing KX125 into the states in 2005, but made them till 2008 for the rest of the world, they do not make them anymore, (I work for the Kawasaki distributor here, and trust me, if we could get them we would)

Suzuki made them up until 2011, (although there were called 2008 models)
GuyB
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4/10/2014 1:02pm
DC, First of all I think the post creator is an idiot and I agree with you on your position. I also had another question, and...
DC,

First of all I think the post creator is an idiot and I agree with you on your position. I also had another question, and wondered if green lasers will be allowed for use by parents in the school boy 2 class this year?

Thanks!!!
Thank you for your contribution.

We have a new claiming rule here. Someone just claimed your right to post. Smile
GuyB
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4/10/2014 1:03pm
MotoX85 wrote:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSFyvUJ-0CwD-wOM2KXlW3cWHRYFDWPA6mMyaXB_ATmOeKYcwXi Did Gas Gas stop making this. Not sure if the picture loaded but it is basically a Gas Gas 125. Doesn't Suzuki still make them...
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSFyvUJ-0CwD-wOM2K…

Did Gas Gas stop making this. Not sure if the picture loaded but it is basically a Gas Gas 125.

Doesn't Suzuki still make them, but only imports to Europe.

Fantic makes a 125 with a Gas Gas motor

There are you answers Guy B, I thought my original post was very nice, I didn't call anyone DUMB or an IDIOT.

Realistically, how many of those are you going to see on the gate at Loretta's? Same goes for TMs.
DC
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4/10/2014 1:39pm Edited Date/Time 4/10/2014 1:40pm
Good question, Burn1986. I count 21 classes where you can enter a 125cc two-stroke.

Given the amount of 125s made and homologated for AMA racing, I think the program allows those bikes a lot more places to race than the CRF150, comparatively speaking.

DC
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Matt Fisher
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4/10/2014 3:50pm
scott_nz wrote:
Kawasaki stopped importing KX125 into the states in 2005, but made them till 2008 for the rest of the world, they do not make them anymore...
Kawasaki stopped importing KX125 into the states in 2005, but made them till 2008 for the rest of the world, they do not make them anymore, (I work for the Kawasaki distributor here, and trust me, if we could get them we would)

Suzuki made them up until 2011, (although there were called 2008 models)
I stand corrected. Thank you for the update.
burn1986
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4/10/2014 4:12pm
DC wrote:
Good question, Burn1986. I count 21 classes where you can enter a 125cc two-stroke. Given the amount of 125s made and homologated for AMA racing, I...
Good question, Burn1986. I count 21 classes where you can enter a 125cc two-stroke.

Given the amount of 125s made and homologated for AMA racing, I think the program allows those bikes a lot more places to race than the CRF150, comparatively speaking.

DC
MX Sports
It's all good dude, the show will go on.
MotoX85
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4/10/2014 7:01pm
DC wrote:
Good question, Burn1986. I count 21 classes where you can enter a 125cc two-stroke. Given the amount of 125s made and homologated for AMA racing, I...
Good question, Burn1986. I count 21 classes where you can enter a 125cc two-stroke.

Given the amount of 125s made and homologated for AMA racing, I think the program allows those bikes a lot more places to race than the CRF150, comparatively speaking.

DC
MX Sports
Davey the original question is why is the 250 2 stroke is not allowed in MXsport's schoolboy 2 class as Lorettas and all the qualifiers are AMA sanctioned and the AMA "ALLOWS" 250 2 strokes to run in schoolboy 2.

The answer of how many manufactures make 125s was a side question that was answered poilitely and to the point after someone went completely off topic, instead of actually answering it, and posed another question that was suppose to be somehow related to the original question.

They changed the name of the 85 Senior class to Mini Senior so they could allow 150 four strokes, even though the AMA does NOT allow 150F's to run with 85's but kept the name of Schoolboy 2 but changed what you could ride because of what MXsports wants the class to run.

Technically by AMA rules, if the race is AMA sanctioned you are required to use the AMA rules regarding that class, hence a 250 2 stroke "SHOULD" be allowed to run in schoolboy 2.

I don't know why the moon is the distance it is away from the Earth. I do not know how many bricks are in the great wall of China and I don not know the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow. Now that I have answered those questions, anyone care to elaborate on why we are not following AMA rules at an AMA race.

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